Question #1: Can you remove the firing pin safety plunger and spring from the frame, but leave the leaver in the frame and the pistol still function?

Question #2: Will a 16.5 lb. Variable ratio Wolff spring be just as reliable in a Colt Gov. model as a 16 lb. Conventional Wolff spring?

For #1: Even though I am against disabling any factory safety, I would look to replace the frame parts with small spacer washers.

For #2: There should be no problem with reliability

Good luck

There's a lot of talk when it comes to the subject of recoil springs for the 1911 Auto.

How is a recoil spring’s weight measured? The amount of energy stored by a conventional spring as it is compressed changes value in a straight line. For example, if you compress a conventional spring an inch, it has a pound of energy. Compressing it another inch will add an additional pound of energy. At three inches we would have 3 pounds of energy stored. The figures are for example only.

A variable-weight spring works differently. The amount of energy stored for each increment of compression changes on a curve. Example, compressing a variable weight spring one inch may have 4 ounces of energy, another one inch will add an additional 8 ounces of energy, the third inch will add another 12 ounces, and so on. A conventional 16 pound recoil spring and a variable 16 pound recoil spring will both store 16 pounds of energy but they get to that point at different rates. While 1911 Auto recoil springs are available in many weights, 16 pounds is considered the standard for full-size guns with 5" barrels. Just how is this figure of 16 pounds determined? In full recoil, the space available for the recoil spring to occupy is approx 1.625". At this point in its compression, its stored energy is 16 pounds. A 15 pound spring would store 15 pounds of energy when compressed to 1.625", and so on with other weights of springs that are compressed at the standard 5" 1911 of 1.625".

Similar pistols but with shorter slides, such as Commander or Officer’s ACP-length models, require springs that are not only shorter, but have different compression weights. A standard Commander spring is 18 pounds when compressed to 1.125", while the Officers ACP spring system must store 22 pounds of energy when compressed to .700". The free length prior to compression is not all that important, as long as it fits within the available space.

Hope this helps..........

My own non-expert guess is that the lever that's supposed to activate the firing pin block may not like the hole in the slide. You'd think that some design effort had gone into this, but....

IAC, if this is a carry gun, you should not remove any safety devices. Ayoob may be a little too cautious, but it's cheap insurance. Keep the firing pin block (and the firing pin) lubed back there, and use something that doesn't mind temperature extremes.

Having said that, I'll agree with Stumbler - there are spacers available that should be used to replace the lever if you really want to. I would expect that just removing the lever would make for some odd things happening.

My Tac-Four functioned just fine when I managed to accidentally lose the little firing pin block spring, although what effect that has on the trigger, I don't know. Most people want to remove the pin block because the thing has an effect on the trigger. (I replaced the spring; the Para's LDA is sufficiently goofy that I don't think anybody would ever notice.)

__________________
Stu.
(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒE
יזכר לא עד פעם

While I don't advise removing the Series 80 system on a carry gun, it's a matter of debate, and the final decision rests with the owner. Personally, I don't think it should have a bearing on the outcome of a legal action following a clean shoot...but one can never bet on a jury. A civil action is also a
much different animal to defend against, and they're rarely decided on legalities alone.

But...if you want to remove it, it's best to get the spacer and remove all of it. Stu made a good point. Depending on how high the plunger lever is lifted in the frame by the trigger pull...and they do vary...it could grab the leading edge of the hole in the slide during recoil. If it does, you can kiss your hammer pin goodbye, and possibly your frame or slide too...or both.

The spacer is available from Brownells for 4 bucks and change, and requires
disassembly of the frame to install. Not a hard task, even for the first-timer with good instruction. I believe the name of the part is TJ's Frame Blank.

Luck!

tuner

I would recommend, if you are going to remove the S80 bits at all, to remove them all, and install the frame spacer. I bought a S80 Commander that had only the slide parts removed, and there was a distinct rub mark in the slide, where the frame-mounted lever was rubbing. I decided it was not farfetched to imagine the tip of the lever actually protruding into the (empty) plunger hole in the slide, and thereby jamming the gun. If you remove the frame bits without installing the spacer, the sear can wander on its pin, and likewise lock up the works.
Progressive recoil springs are a help in unlocking heavy, compensated barrels, but for a standard barrel, you want the barrel and slide to remain locked as long as possible. The progressive spring actually works against you in two ways; it unlocks more quickly than a standard spring of the same rate, and it gets heavier as it compresses, which could cause weak ejection, or a malfunction if your thumb rides the slide as it cycles. Within the normal 1911 spring rate range (14-18 pounds), it probably doesn't matter too much, but if you are using light loads and a spring at the high end, or vice versa, it could cause problems.

I'm with ya there Rick except on one point........

".....and it gets heavier as it compresses, which could cause weak ejection,"

Remember the variable is still picking up tension as it gets compressed, but at a somewhat lower rate then a conventional....... so the slide is actually fighting less lbs in the spring during ejection, than a conventional spring would have. In other words, a conventional will stack up its weight faster than a variable.

Main point though.........if the gun is set up right.........it'll run with a 12lber or most anything just fine.

Can't say much about variable rate springs because I've never used'em. I'd
tend to thing that they would allow a little wider variation in ammo and still provide acceptable function...within limits. Anything mechanical is a compromise...Nothing more, nothing less.

First off...The recoil spring load or rate has almost zero effect on the unlock timing of the barrel. The 1911 isn't really a locked breech system in the purest sense like a bolt-action or falling block rifle. Static on the bench,
the 1911 is only "locked" by recoil spring tension, and doesn't really lock until it fires. At that point, the barrel is pulled forward by the bullet, while the slide is driven rearward in recoil. The locking lugs on the barrel and in the slide are meshed while the two parts are pushed/pulled in opposite directions.
The result is an isometric lock, rather like a tug of war.

In a static condition, a 16-pound recoil spring holds the slide in battery under roughly 3 pounds of force. The unlocking begins when the slide and barrel have moved rearward about one-tenth inch. The average load rate of the spring is approximately 2.65 pounds per inch of compression. Even if the .100 inch of compression yielded the average....which it won't...that would add just a tick over a quarter-pound of resistance to the spring's static loading.
Not a lot when the recoil forces are considered. If we plug in the difference between a 16 pound spring and a 20-pound spring...25%...we add 25% of
a quarter-pound at .100 inch of slide travel. One ounce of added resistance
just ain't gonna have much of an effect at the instant the slide starts to move.

The mainspring will have more influence on unlock timing than the recoil spring...and even that is brief. The radius at the bottom of the firing pin stop will have the greatest influence of any single factor outside of the slide's mass and chamber pressure and pressure curve.

Cheers all!

Tuner

Tuner, those words, even though 100% true, are about to make a lot of 1911 shooters start yelling! I know so many of them who complained (at one time or another) that their pistol stop functioning when they went from 16 lbs to 18 lbs.

LoL, reading your posts is a revelation my friend.

Rgds

__________________
John Caradimas SV1CEC
The M1911 Pistols Organization
http://www.m1911.org

Yep...A lot of'em do start pukin' when the spring rates go up...but it's
usually when the spring hits maximum tension in full compression that causes the problems. Short cycle induced stovepipe failure to eject...Bolt-over-base feeds caused by short-cycle or the slide outrunning the magazine on the last round, etc. Stem-bind failures to go to battery become more firmly jammed when the spring is stiffer. When the slide is rearward, the spring exerts its maximum influence. The average rate is 2.65 pounds per inch...but the tension starts low and builds as the slide moves so that the last half-inch of travel is probably something closer to 5 or 6 pounds per inch...or more. If the spring's load rate was constant from the time the slide moved until it reached maximum travel, life would be so much simpler for us tuners...

A hydraulic system could provide that...but it would probably double the cost and weight of the gun.