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Thread: Best Ammo For My Colt New Agent .45?

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  1. #1

    Best Ammo For My Colt New Agent .45?

    Those of you who read my post about Baby Colt's first range trip will recall I had some issues with the ammo I was using. Well, since several of you also carry a Colt New Agent .45 and I am sure you shoot it often to keep in practice, I was wondering if you have found that a certain brand or type of ammo cycles better than another? Which one do you prefer for practice and which do you prefer for self defense? For myself, I don't really see a need for fancy hollow points or +p stuff, as long as I have something that my gun likes and will function well on, so I am just as content with a quality ball ammo as long as I can find one. What do you all like?
    -Bea

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Please post a link to your previous mention of the problem. Would be nice to get your gun to work with anything - rather than hunt around for ammunition that works OK in somebody else's gun (a gun which possibly can't be made to choke on anything!) - and which might work worse in yours.

    Regards
    When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind. [Lord Kelvin]

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by niemi24s
    Please post a link to your previous mention of the problem. Would be nice to get your gun to work with anything - rather than hunt around for ammunition that works OK in somebody else's gun (a gun which possibly can't be made to choke on anything!) - and which might work worse in yours.

    Regards
    I do not know how to link yet, but it is in the Colt Forum titled: Baby Colt's First Range Trip.

    From what I read, as by her own admission, weapon was not cleaned and lubricated properly prior to going to range and possibly mags with weak springs. I would put my money on cleaning a lubrication as the main issue.

    I do not own a New Agent, therefore I have no recommendation on what will work best.

    Be safe
    Dave
    Maybe not the sharpest tack in the box......but not dull!

  4. #4
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    Here's the thread from the Colt section: http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=97627 You may have already corrected most of the problem with a good lube job. Guns are machines. Machines need oil. New machines needs lots of oil - as in gurgle, gurgle!

    IMNSHO, one of your ammunition choices could not have been worse - CCI Blazer (aluminum or brass cased). This stuff has the lousiest grip on its bullets I've ever seen, and this can contribute to a jam where the slide doesn't quite close all the way - or the bullet just stops dead in its tracks on the frame feed ramp. Next time CCI jams, don't force the round in to shoot it. Carefully extract and eject the jammed round, measure its length and compare it to a fresh round to see how much the bullet got stuffed back into its case. Better choices for 230gr RN ammuntion can be found toward the top of this list...



    ...but I've no experience with HP's.

    As for the live round stovepipes, the stronger springs you mentioned may fix that. Magazine followers with dimples help a lot too.

    Regards
    When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind. [Lord Kelvin]

  5. #5
    IMHO, try Winchester USA brand 230 grain FMJ (Also Known As WWB = Winchester White Box) available at WalMart. If WWB won't feed the pistol has issues. As far as a good lube, try BreakFree CLP, available at the same place mentioned above. When you think you have applied enough lube, add some more. Good luck and safe shooting!
    "Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you." --Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Blazer aluminum isn't what I'd call "high quality" ammo, but there is no reason it shouldn't feed ..it does in all mine..including my New Agent

    and I'm not sure Niemi's theory of bullet set back causing the slide to stall contributing to failure to return to battery (FTRTB) can be demonstrated in the field
    The anecdotal evidence would suggest not.
    There is a fellow on the other site with a new RIA CS having FTRTB problems .
    The ammo he's used is PMC and Rem UMC.
    The overwhelming majority of his FTRB are with PMC

    never the less, I didn't see any FTRTB issues mentioned, but a different ammo to try would be a good suggestion regardless

    The problems I experienced at the range were:
    -several premature slide locks
    that would suggest to me either you're inadvertently bumping the slide stop during recoil.
    or...
    the bullet nose is bumping the slide stop on the way up


    -4 live round stove pipes
    the mag is the first thing I'd suspect


    -Golden Sabre did not run well in that gun
    i didn't see what the MALF condition was with those (or specific to them)


    to answer some of your other questions;
    as Niemi rightly mentioned, just because my or anyone else's New Agent runs with XYZ ammo, doesn't mean yours, or anyone else's will

    But for practice, I shoot whatever is in the range bag.
    which is generally my own re-loads and/or Tulammo (and lately Herters)
    or any number of inexpensive factory ball ammo like Aguila, Blazer, Fed American Eagle, Rem UMC, WWB, etc

    i always start with what's in the carry mags ..which are currently Winchester Ranger T-Series +P 230gr HP

    i don't get all caught up in the "what's the best ammo to carry" debates, though i do carry HP ammo in every defense weapon.
    However, if you're most comfortable carrying ball ammo (after it proves reliable) I don't consider it such an egregious mistake ..
    cause it's still a big fat heavy bullet plowing a 1/2" dia hole



    ..L.T.A.

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Hello Bea:

    You said (in Post #10 of your other thread) that two tap & rack drills were required. What did the gun do that required those actions?
    When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind. [Lord Kelvin]

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Hi Cap:
    Blazer aluminum isn't what I'd call "high quality" ammo, but there is no reason it shouldn't feed ..it does in all mine..including my New Agent
    But if it did not feed in Bea's gun there must be a reason (or reasons) why it didn't. And that's what we should be doing - finding that reason (or reasons). And your New Agent (and magazine) is not Bea's New Agent (and magazine).
    . . .and I'm not sure Niemi's theory of bullet set back causing the slide to stall contributing to failure to return to battery (FTRTB) can be demonstrated in the field
    The anecdotal evidence would suggest not.
    You may not be sure, but I am. I've got some special handloads that set back so much they'll give most any slick-feeding 1911 an FTRB. But it's not as if we should be looking for one single cause. There could be several causes. And I'm not clairvoyant - maybe there is a single cause, but maybe there are two or three.

    And I've a sneaky feeling the reason the anecdotal evidence isn't there is because when most people have an FTRB they whack the back of slide and then lose the opportunity to examine the evidence by firing that (possibly badly set back) round.
    There is a fellow on the other site with a new RIA CS having FTRTB problems. The ammo he's used is PMC and Rem UMC. The overwhelming majority of his FTRB are with PMC,
    If his PMC is anything like the PMC I've tested, this only means bullet setback cannot be the (or one of the) causes of his FTRB's. I gave up trying to make that stuff set back!

    There are lots of things which can cause an FTRB. This https://docs.google.com/document/d/1.../edit?hl=en_US compilation (written in the form of a questionnaire) covering most of them, I think. Hopefully, the one/ones causing Bea some grief is/are among them.

    Cheers

    P.S.: Been ice fishing yet? Got a few dozen folks drilling holes in front of my place. Good day for it: sunny, no wind and colder'n a well diggers brass monkey!
    When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind. [Lord Kelvin]
    Last edited by niemi24s; 30th December 2011 at 10:36.


  9. #9
    Join Date
    28th December 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by niemi24s

    P.S.: Been ice fishing yet?
    ICE FISHING??
    Nah, not much of hard water angler .
    and the frigid temps...You have the keep the worms from freezing .
    and I can never fit enough in my mouth .....


    I'm interested in your set back MALF experiments .


    I've got some special handloads that set back so much they'll give most any slick-feeding 1911 an FTRB.
    that has this student's ears perked up.
    It's the first I can recall hearing it. .
    I'm curious for the particulars and also if any factory ammo has duplicated same

    Thanks



    And I'm not clairvoyant
    You're welcome to borrow my Magic 8 Ball






    ..L.T.A.

  10. #10
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    Hi Cap:
    I'm interested in your set back MALF experiments .
    Well, I spent the last hour looking for my notes/log entry from about 3 to 5 years ago regarding those handloads and the in-gun test results with little luck. Did find a few of the remaining test loads however:

    Bullets: 2006 vintage soft (HBN 6.9) Speer swaged 200 grain SWC's with a 0.452" OD
    Cases: New component Winchester
    Handloaded: Seated to customary SWC depth and processed through a Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die (with a sizing ring a tad less than 0.471"ID) but not deflared or crimped. Case OD's are 0.469" at the bullet base and 0.470" at the mouth.

    But all I remember about the previous tests was the setback was pretty spectacular and the test gun (good ole Petunia, who has run 100% with SWC's the last 40+ years) suffered FTRB's. So, rather than rely on memory I repeated the test.

    COAL of test round was 1.180" and was loaded as the top round in full 7 round Colt/CheckMate hybrid lip magazine
    Test gun was a 5" M1911A1 with iron sights with fitted #1414 Ordnance National Match barrel & bushing, oiled up to a fare-thee-well (as usual, gurgle-gurgle) and with a 16lb recoil spring. The frame and barrel ramps were given a coat of candle soot to help see where the bullet made contact.
    The attempt at feeding the test round by slingshotting the slide ended in an FTRB with the slide 3/8" out of battery. It was a hard 3 point jam where the round could not be chambered by either pushing/smacking the back of the slide or rapping on the muzzle with a hammer handle.
    The test round was carefully removed and the bullet setback initially eyeballed as being bodacious! Its COAL of 1.129" showed that bodacious = 0.051". Examination of the case showed a tell-tale smiley face on the bottom about 5/32" back from the case mouth. The upper edge of the case mouth was rolled inward severely by contact with the chamber roof because the bullet body had been pushed in beyond the case mouth.
    Examination of the soot on the frame & barrel ramps showed the bullet had hit the frame ramp down about 0.31" from the top and slid along the ramp a distance of about 0.22" before departing the frame ramp for the chamber. The barrel ramp showed contact only at its top corner - when it made the smiley face on the case.

    So: Can bullet setback cause a 1911 to FTRB? Sure looks like it to Mrs. Niemi's little boy. But the big questions you no doubt have are:

    This was with a lead bullet - how about a plated or jacketed bullet?
    This bodacious setback of 0.051" is really much more than I've ever heard of on a single chambering or attempt to chamber - what's the minimum amount of setback need to make a 1911 FTRB?

    Both are splendid questions. But I only shoot lead bullet handloads. Good lead bullets. Loaded without the debilitating affects a Lee CFC Die can have on a lead bullet in good thick brass. My handloads have virtually zero bullet setback as shown here...



    ...second only to PMC - which I couldn't get to set back at all!

    Anyhoo, that's my long-winded explanation. Might post some pictures tomorrow, but right now there's a Red Wings hockey game that needs my attention.

    Cheers
    When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind. [Lord Kelvin]

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