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Thread: IPSC Classic Division

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  1. #1

    IPSC Classic Division

    Folks, those of us that are fans of the 1911, like practical shooting and are NOT based in the United States or anywhere where USPSA is active, have a reason to smile these last few days.

    In a meeting that took place on the 17th of October, the IPSC’s ruling council approved, among other things, the replacement of ‘Modified’ by a new division, called ‘Classic’ – during discussions lasting well-over a year, this new division had been referred to as ‘Single-stack’. This change will take place from 2012 onwards.

    Please note, this change affects IPSC, not USPSA, which has had such a division for a while now. Also, the rules for IPSC Classic Division do not exactly mirror those of USPSA SS.

    Briefly:

    • Only single-stack, 1911-style pistols need apply.
    • Railed frames are not permitted.
    • Dustcovers extending forward beyond the normal length, are not permitted (max. 75mm from the front of the dust cover to the rear of the slide stop pin hole).
    • Magwells are permitted, but can't be wider than 35mm. In practice, this means that magwells can't extend beyond the grips, laterally.
    • No compensators.
    • No optical sights.
    • No slide rackers, thumb rests and slide-lightening cuts.
    • Gun must fit in IPSC box.
    • Holster rules mirror those of Standard Division.


    Also, shooters in Major Power Factor cannot load more than 8 rounds in their magazines. Minor PF pistols may have 10 rounds in the magazine.

    All in all, I think this is great news. I have some friends that will miss Modified, but I think that the introduction of Classic Division will please more shooters.
    Too many people miss the silver lining because they're expecting gold.
    M. Setter
    Last edited by Spyros; 21st October 2011 at 04:49.


  2. #2
    Join Date
    7th June 2004
    Location
    Western Washington
    Posts
    2,921
    Good news for IPSC, but I don't see much difference from Single Stack rules?
    Weight limit?
    Looks like any gun that's legal for USPSA Single Stack would also be legal for Classic.
    "A grip safety is just another excess moving part. I have never known one to prevent an accident, and moreover, it is difficult to postulate a circumstance in which it might." Jeff Cooper

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by RickB
    Looks like any gun that's legal for USPSA Single Stack would also be legal for Classic.
    Almost. USPSA allows factory railed frames (without any lights or lasers mounted). Railed frames are not allowed in Classic. Also, there's nothing in the USPSA rules that prohibits a long dustcover, like on a Les Baer Monolith or an STI Rangemaster. These guns are legal for USPSA SS, not legal for IPSC Classic. There is a further condition about the box fitting in Classic, stating that the gun must be placed in the box with the barrel parallel to the longest side of the box. This is obviously done to discourage 'Modified'-style fittings, i.e. a 3" pistol with a 10-round .45ACP magazine (in minor) placed diagonally in the box. And finally, there are 'belled' ultra-wide magwells for single stacks, that would be legal on a USPSA SS pistol but would be beyond the 35mm outside diameter limit in Classic.

    There are no weight limits, or minimum trigger pull weights in Classic. 'Race' holsters are permitted in Classic, but not permitted in SS. There is no provision against bull/cone 5" barrels in Classic, like in SS. These differences are examples of pistol features that would be legal in Classic, but illegal in SS, for those going the opposite route.

    I have absolutely no idea who has the best balance, since Classic is literally 'hot off the oven' and the above differences really amount to nit-picking, as far as most competitors would be concerned. The two categories are indeed pretty close, much closer than, say, Production in IPSC Vs. Production in USPSA.

    EDIT - Correction about dustcovers (see strikethrough text above):
    USPSA rules do indeed say that railed frames are allowed only if the distance from the front of the dustcover to the rear of the slide stop pin hole is 3.25 inches or less. While this is longer than the 75mm stated as the maximum dust cover length for Classic (it's about 2.95 inches), it's not long enough to allow for a full-length dustcover, like that on a Monolith, RangeMaster or other such pistols. Subject to interpretation (since the specific mention is made with regard to railed dustcovers), this means that the two divisions are not different in this regard.
    Too many people miss the silver lining because they're expecting gold.
    M. Setter
    Last edited by Spyros; 21st October 2011 at 05:03.


  4. #4
    Join Date
    7th June 2004
    Location
    Western Washington
    Posts
    2,921
    Classic sounds a lot like Limited 10, but with an 8-round limit for major. I shot L10 for years with a single stack .45, so have all the race gear for it. Now, where's there an IPSC match in the U.S.?
    "A grip safety is just another excess moving part. I have never known one to prevent an accident, and moreover, it is difficult to postulate a circumstance in which it might." Jeff Cooper

  5. #5
    I'm definitely the wrong guy to answer this question!
    Too many people miss the silver lining because they're expecting gold.
    M. Setter

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by RickB
    Classic sounds a lot like Limited 10, but with an 8-round limit for major. I shot L10 for years with a single stack .45, so have all the race gear for it. Now, where's there an IPSC match in the U.S.?
    There aren't many clubs in the US shooting IPSC, you'd have to go north of the border for IPSC.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    17th May 2010
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    888

    Classic ??

    I have to plead ignorance on this one. I'm not terribly experienced in Canadian IPSC and have relied on my mentors regarding some of the rules.

    I read this post earlier and tried to see how Classic would be different for me from Standard which is the division I would shoot in with my 1911 Commander. Modifications to my SIG X-five DA/SA moved me out of Production with that gun and so it's Standard for me again.

    The only difference I can see is the prohibition of rails and the mag well dimensions. Oppsss I just saw something else. Does this mean I would be restricted to eight rounds of S&W 40/180?

    I readily admit to not being well versed rule wise. Mostly I just shoot, have fun and go home happy. I try to improve as much as I can but placement in matches is a low priority for me.

  8. #8
    hercster, your Commander is legal for Standard, and always has been. Classic simply means that if you declare it instead of Standard, you won't be competing against any folks with doublestack STIs and the like. If there are any restrictions you don't like in Classic, you can declare Standard, like before.

    I'm not a very competitive shooter (the bathroom scale can vouch for that), but I find that some competition between friends, with like equipment, is a healthy thing. Match placement can help with that, as long as it doesn't lure you in the equipment race!
    Too many people miss the silver lining because they're expecting gold.
    M. Setter
    Last edited by Spyros; 22nd October 2011 at 03:22.


  9. #9
    Join Date
    17th May 2010
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    888

    Oic

    Thanks Spyros, now I get it. Classic would give us a more level playing field than standard by means of those restrictions. As we are restricted to ten rounds anyway, double stack just gives us two more rounds than a standard 1911. As I will never be very competitive, the only advantage I would like is having the 10 rounds in a SA gun. My DA/SA X-Five is a wonderful piece in 40 but it is very big and heavy. It shoots very smoothly but I only just found out what the weight does in terms of overall speed when I got an FNP 45 which is 12 ounces lighter than the SIG. I find the transitions much easier with the lighter gun. I can use the FN in SA and not have to be as careful counting rounds between reloads. As I said, my priorities are very modest. I want to be safe, have fun, get my hits and not finish last. This is a new attitude for me and I enjoy it. As it is now, I can shoot "Standard" with each of my three pistols. I'm anxiously waiting for a SIG P-210 Legend which in 9 mm will be a new experience for me.

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