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Thread: What Model Llama is this?

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  1. #1

    Icon16 What Model Llama is this?

    I'm brand new to the forum, but not new to 1911s.

    My father-in-law gave me this gun because he knew nothing about it and didn't want to fool with it.

    I have done about 8 hours.....yes, 8hours of research on this gun, and I have found out a lot.

    Here's what I know:
    -It is chambered 9mm Largo (9X23) and/or .38 ACP (which is pretty rare now a days)
    - It has the proofing marks on the left side of the trigger guard and I know what they mean.
    - It also has an "N" beside the proofing mark.......or a "Z" depending on you orientation. If it is an "N" it was manufactured in 1942....if it is a "Z" is was manufactured in 1955.

    Both the model IV and model IX came in 9mm Largo and are the only two that are very similar to mine.
    -I have read that the model IV was never made with a grip safety, and it had a "W" style detent spring. Mine has a grip safety and a spring and pin detent.
    - I have also read that the model IX was originally made without a grip safety, but the model IXA came out in 1955 with a grip safety, but it had "extra" stamped in the right side of the frame......mine has nothing on the right side of the frame.
    -Lastly, I have read that if "Llama" is written after the caliber, then it is pre-1955, and if Llama is written before, then it is post-1955.
    Mine has Llama written before, and if this is true, then mine has to be a model IXA.

    HOWEVER, back to the "N"/"Z" on the left side of the trigger guard.... if it is a model IXA, then it has to be a post 1955 gun. That means that the letter on the side is a "Z". The problem with that is that on all other Llama's I have seen, the letter is in the same orientation as the proofing marks.....and if we are going to read mine as a "Z" this it is not oriented the same way.

    I NEED SOME HELP!!!!!! THIS IS DRIVING ME NUTS!!

    http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/v...welllength.jpg

    http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/v...ideofslide.jpg

    http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/v...gunandtape.jpg

    http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/v...3/proofing.jpg

    http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/v...tsideofgun.jpg

    http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/v...toegerarms.jpg

    Here's a pic of it next to my 1911A1

    http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/v...3/bothguns.jpg
    Last edited by HD_Rider13; 28th March 2009 at 09:41. Reason: Pics


  2. #2
    Well, maybe I have stumped everyone.

    As you can see, I don't have grips or a magazine for the gun, and I really can't order either one until I know what model it is.

    If no one knows what model it is....is there any where else I should go to find out what magazine and grips I need?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    31st January 2005
    Location
    Bonner Springs, Ks
    Posts
    169
    Here is a post I made of an interesting model IV I have http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.ph...ht=llama+model Also this place may help you http://star-firearms.com/info/parts.shtml another for sale site I saw awhile back had some interesting model IV's about the middle of the page here http://www.collectorfirearms.org/

    BTW I was originally correct about Llamas. Their quality is hit and miss. Mine is almost as new. Looks good. But it likes to go full auto at random intervals plus the safety don't work.

    I'd say yours is the regular model IV Extra kinda like this one http://www.9mmlargo.com/extra/index.htm
    Last edited by 7790314; 28th March 2009 at 16:09. Reason: Added observation


  4. #4

    Is this website wrong?

    I would be convinced if it weren't for this website, and a couple others that say the IV was never made with a grip safety and also made with a "W" detent spring.

    http://www.carbinesforcollectors.com/llamapage.html

    However, there are a lot of websites showing "model IVs" with grip safeties and coil spring detents.

    The other thing is that the bottom of the mag well is flared in the front and has a step down in the rear from the main spring housing. None of the model IVs or model IX 9mm Largos have that either.

    And yet another thing is that the safety on mine is totally different from either the model IV or IX 9mm Largos.

    AND, one more thing.....I promise......mine has a vent rib on top.

    There is one pic on the link I have here, just below the model IXs that shows a .45 model IX with vent rib, mag well like mine, safety like mine, and sping detent like mine......but, it's not 9mm Largo.

    What I really need is to find someone that has model IV and model IX 9mm Largo that would let me borrow their magazine and see which one fits.

    But, I don't think there is anyone that will do that.

    I will probably just order one and hope they will take it back if it doesn't fit.

    Thanks for the input.
    Last edited by HD_Rider13; 28th March 2009 at 18:58. Reason: More stuff


  5. #5
    Join Date
    31st January 2005
    Location
    Bonner Springs, Ks
    Posts
    169
    This is where I bought mags for mine and may help http://www.ammoclip.com/L/llama_38sup.htm

  6. #6
    Join Date
    31st January 2005
    Location
    Bonner Springs, Ks
    Posts
    169
    Whoops, looks like that guy is fresh out. This was the other guy I considered but he is higher http://www.jocoemprise.com/pistols/l...ma38super.html Also here is another mildly interesting link http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20espag...llama%20gb.htm

    I suppose those two aren't much good either as your gun takes a wide base mag. You might try numrich or Bob's gun shop
    Last edited by 7790314; 28th March 2009 at 20:48. Reason: out of


  7. #7
    Join Date
    16th January 2006
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Va.
    Posts
    4,047
    Could it be a Llama Vlll Model. That came in 9MM largo with a grip safety!!!
    "This is the 44 Magnum Auto Mag and holds a 300 grain cartridge and if properly used it can remove the fingerprints."

  8. #8
    AutoMag,

    Can you show me documentation of a model VIII in 9mm Largo?

    As far as I have found, the VIII was not made in a 9mm Largo. If you can show me proof of an VIII in 9mm Largo, then I will be sold, because that was originally what I thought, but I could not find one in a 9mm Largo.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    16th January 2006
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Va.
    Posts
    4,047
    TAULER and MUGICA brands

    In the 1930's, the firm will manufacture Gabilondos under the brand name "TAULER" and "MUGICA" pistols which will be imported in the world, mainly in South America. Mr TAULER was a Spanish sports target shooterand an Olympic medalist who created his own brand and distributors. As part of the Spanish secret service, it will use its relations for the purchase of guns LLama under its own brand name "TAULER. In 1933 they opt for LLAMA II 380 ACP caliber pistol compact size and low weight resembling the Colt 1911. Its small size and power of 9 mm calibre court will make a monument of these services to particular tasks. Today, officials from these services still use these guns; model LLAMA III and the Star S 9 mm short whom were still part of their kit.

    * Tauler versus Llama pistols

    ""TAULER"" MODEL PISTOLS : 1933/1935
    TAULER

    Model

    LLAMA

    Equivalent

    DESCRIPTION
    I I 7,65/32 ACP small pistol without safety
    II II 380 ACP, small pistol without safety
    III III 380 ACP, small pistol with grip safety (like Colt 1911)
    IV IV 9 mm Largo pistolet de service sans poignée sécurité
    V VII Identique to modèl IV calibre .38 Super
    P VIII 9 mm Largo pistol with grip safety (idem Colt 1911)

    I found this on www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llama_firearms I do not know if this site is correct but it looks pretty good!!!
    "This is the 44 Magnum Auto Mag and holds a 300 grain cartridge and if properly used it can remove the fingerprints."

  10. #10

    Here's another site

    http://www.pmulcahy.com/pistols/spanish_pistols_b-m.htm

    Automag.....you may just be correct.

    I searched again for the VIII and found this site. It says the VIII came in a few different chambers and there were two models of the VIII (VIII-A and VIII-C) that were the only VIIIs that had grip safeties.

    Now, all I need is a pic of one to seal the deal.

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