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Thread: Kimber push pin / firing pin safety block...

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  1. #11
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    29th September 2008
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    I agree that things can get very complicated in a self defense case. I also agree that it would be better to not have to explain something at all (the reason for removing the firing pin block).

    However... in the case you present... you are in deep stuff for reasons completely unrelated to the firing pin block removal. I understand your point... and that you were trying to highlight how things are not always so cut and dry. Part of your argument though about wanting the jury to see you as a solid, upstanding citizen vs. a gun nut who was just dying for the chance has a whole other set of complications surrounding it.

    In the example you gave... there are two relevant items that could paint a picture of your "gun" character for the jury. It seems that in the previous discussion... there was the fear of some fool jury member who thinks that guns are evil and that anyone who has one MUST be itching to shoot people. If you are facing such a jury... what would your general guess be about how they weigh 1) You carry a concealed firearm on your person regularly 2) You removed a safety that the defense attorney explained... maybe a bit fuzzily... had no bearing on the shooting and is intended to prevent the gun firing when dropped.

    Now.. I know the core of your argument is "Why even add to the troubles you have?". You are correct here that ideally, you would just leave it alone. But if you are up against a hostile jury... which of the two items from above do you think will weigh more heavily in their mind? My guess is that to someone who is gun-ignorant.... the fact that you carry a gun on your person when you are out grocery shopping looks very very bad and the safety issue probably contributes... but is a minor contribution.

    It seems like carrying a taser or hotel-alpha-ing would be the safest legal solution. Of course.. I would rather be able to drop a fool that is trying to kill me and not leave my life to chance.

    If legal risk is the most important factor to you... then you are correct... people who remove the safeties are at a higher legal risk (how much higher in practice is questionable and completely up to the jury members).

    I don't carry on my person and am only concerned about the home invasion scenario. For me... this scenario is a pretty safe bet... so the risk of removing the safety does not worry me so much.

    Regardless of the legal risk... I think everyone here agrees that Kimber should stop putting the firing pin blocks in because of their implementation. Some might feel that it decreases the reliablity of their guns.. but what really irks me is that they took a beautiful, generally standardized pistol... and added a bunch of proprietary junk to it that creates these legal problems, is extremely unfriendly to clean/check/maintain, can disable your gun completely if missing/damaged, alters the disassembly process and requires you to trust that Kimber will always be able to provide parts.

    I grew up around firearms and have owned many different varieties of firearms. When I bought the Kimber... I was very excited to get my first 1911 and have such a customizable piece. I kinda thought in the back of my mind that it would be a gun that I would still have 40 years from now and would be able to easily maintain since so many people offer parts for 1911s. Later I realized that this is not the case... that this little piece of metal is going to cost 12 bucks (the push rod) and that I better buy a set of them if I am to trust that it will last me 40 years. Same reason I bought a wilson combat ar-15 receiver...they did not do special milling to prevent an auto-sear from being installed... it is the original design. If full auto ever becomes legal again... or the nuclear apocalypse comes... I would like to know that my firearm is standard and can take any parts I scrounge up. Just kidding about that (kind of).

    I guess the only upside is that now I don't feel satisfied with "just" a Kimber and will probably get a Les Baer one day as that is probably a 1911 that I could trust for the next 40 years and pass down to my kids. Now I realize the gun I was so proud to get has been hobbled. No more Kimber for me.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by absynthe49
    I grew up around firearms and have owned many different varieties of firearms. When I bought the Kimber... I was very excited to get my first 1911 and have such a customizable piece. I kinda thought in the back of my mind that it would be a gun that I would still have 40 years from now and would be able to easily maintain since so many people offer parts for 1911s. Later I realized that this is not the case... that this little piece of metal is going to cost 12 bucks (the push rod) and that I better buy a set of them if I am to trust that it will last me 40 years. Same reason I bought a wilson combat ar-15 receiver...they did not do special milling to prevent an auto-sear from being installed... it is the original design. If full auto ever becomes legal again... or the nuclear apocalypse comes... I would like to know that my firearm is standard and can take any parts I scrounge up. Just kidding about that (kind of).

    I guess the only upside is that now I don't feel satisfied with "just" a Kimber and will probably get a Les Baer one day as that is probably a 1911 that I could trust for the next 40 years and pass down to my kids. Now I realize the gun I was so proud to get has been hobbled. No more Kimber for me.
    Before I got to your mention of Les Baer I was already thinking that you sounded like a person who really should just sell the Kimber and buy a Colt Series 70 reissue. Of course, a Baer or a Wilson Combat will do in a pinch ...
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

  3. #13
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    4th November 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by absynthe49
    ...the fact that you carry a gun on your person when you are out grocery shopping looks very very bad...
    Some risks are a given. I'm not going to spend my days hiding under my bed. I'm going to go out in the world and live my life. And if I legally may, I'll be wearing a gun. If I in the course of attending to my business I need my gun to protect myself from a potentially lethal attack, that sort of goes at least part of the way toward explaining why I'm wearing it.

    In any case, hiding from the risks of living is not an answer. Understanding those risks and trade offs, and managing them, is.

    DVC
    adapt, improvise, overcome
    "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.", Carl Sagan
    "One should shoot as quickly as one can -- but no quicker.", Jeff Cooper

  4. #14
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    2nd October 2006
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    absynthe49:

    I also respect Franks (and Hawkmoons, etal) opinions and legal experience. But since you are asking for information concerning the FPS functioning and ability to bypass same; there was a thread on this forum last week that advised without qualification that replacing the Kimber series II firing pin with a Colt series 80 firing pin rendered the FPS system ineffective, while allowing it to remain in place. It was an interesting thread, complete with pictures.

    I have not attempted the referenced modifications, and would not recommend that anyone do so on any pistol other than one dedicated 100% to range use.

    Rick

  5. #15
    Join Date
    5th December 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by absynthe49
    This topic seems to be beaten to death........
    Yes, you are correct.

    As Frank noted you really, really, really, should read the post to which he directed you. Both sides of the issue are covered very well. Although I feel differently about the matter than Frank, I do respect his viewpoint.

    While you could probably get/make a spacer to replace the pushrod thingie, I see no need unless you want to restore it at a later date. I just trimmed the top of the pushrod off so it would not protrude when the grip safety was disengaged (squeezed). The biggest challenge is getting the rear sight out to remove the offending parts in the slide. The standard sight is wedged in pretty tightly. The night sights, however, seem to come out easily.

    I personally am not a proponent of using a non Kimber firing pin to deactivate the FPS as it introduces drag on the firing pin. I would not intentionally introduce a part that as a byproduct, created drag on other moving parts so I won't do it there either. Too much of a band-aid approach for my liking, however, many people do it and I've never heard of it causing a failure.

  6. #16
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    29th September 2008
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    I did read through the forum post about the legality of it. I understand the two sides of it.. I just think that the amount of risk that it adds is very small compared to the potential risks you face from any self defense trial.

    I had seen the firing pin idea too. I also don't like it because of the extra friction it would cause. I want the stupid part out! I don't really want grime and old lubricant to just sit up there for years. The push rod is such a small piece and it is smashing against the firing pin block... it seems hard to believe that this part will still be flawless 20 years from now.

    I'm thinking I could make a little spacer instead of paying Kimber 12 each for a group of them. Was there really no better way to keep the firing pin block in the slide than to put it under the rear sight? Couldn't they have put some sort of locking pin in place so that you could remove it? Anyway... I guess this topic has been bled dry in many other posts so I'll probably drop it.

    Thanks for all the input.

  7. #17
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    5th October 2008
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    Legality aside, back to the question at hand, does simply removing the parts (plunger, spring and block) leave us with a good gun? I think it does. I just removed them (yeah the rear sight was a pain) and the disconnector and sear don't wiggle when probed with a tool so they don't seem to have relied on the plunger for location. It function checks good. I have yet to shoot it but the only adverse thing I can think of is that fouling might more easily find it's way to the sear/disconnector since there is now the little plunger hole in the frame.
    What do y'all think?

  8. #18
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    27th August 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by samuraiTy
    Legality aside, back to the question at hand, does simply removing the parts (plunger, spring and block) leave us with a good gun? I think it does. I just removed them (yeah the rear sight was a pain) and the disconnector and sear don't wiggle when probed with a tool so they don't seem to have relied on the plunger for location. It function checks good. I have yet to shoot it but the only adverse thing I can think of is that fouling might more easily find it's way to the sear/disconnector since there is now the little plunger hole in the frame.
    What do y'all think?
    What did you use to remove the sight? I have a tool specifically designed for that and it was a breeze.

    The hole/carbon occurred to me so I used a bit of epoxy to seal it on one, but haven't bother with the other two. I clean every 250-300 rounds and haven't noticed any problems. The epoxy held for about 5K and didn't show any signs of loosening, but since it didn't appear necessary, I removed it. Potentially, it posed the same danger as the firing pin block.
    Eddie

  9. #19
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    5th October 2008
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    I know it makes me a sinner but I used a punch and hammer but don't tell any one I put reference marks on the sight/frame with a black sharpie and just gave it light gentle taps to line it back up. I found a thread on 1911forum.com where someone said they removed their "series II-nes" and it "shoots great". I'm gonna keep an eye on it though.
    May the Schwartz not be with you.

  10. #20
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    13th May 2008
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    /shrug

    I removed the components of the "schwartz safety" when I changed out the rear sight and installed an adjustable. That was a few thousand rounds ago, no problems.

    Legal issues?

    No worries here.

    YMMV

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