Welcome to M1911.ORG
The M1911 Pistols Organization Forums Site


John needs your help
Please read this message.


Sponsors Panel
If you intend to buy something from the companies advertising above, or near the bottom of our pages, please use their banners in our sites. Whatever you buy from them, using those banners, gives us a small commission, which helps us keep these sites alive. You still pay the normal price, our commission comes from their profit, so you have nothing to lose, while we have something to gain. Your help is appreciated.
If you want to become a sponsor and see your banner in the above panel, click here to contact us.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 25

Thread: National carry reciprocity

THREAD CLOSED
This is an old thread. You can't post a reply in it. It is left here for historical reasons.Why don't you create a new thread instead?
  1. #1
    Join Date
    2nd June 2004
    Location
    Terra
    Posts
    22,286
    Posts liked by others
    906

    National carry reciprocity

    According to an article on the GunsAmerica web site, a bill has been introduced to require all states to recognize carry permits from all other states. It will be interesting to see where this goes.

    https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/nat...ll-introduced/

    The text of the bill can be found here: http://bearingarms.com/wp-content/up...ep.-Hudson.pdf

    The first thing I see is that it does not specifically override the Gun Free School Zone Act, and that could be a problem.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

  2. #2
    Join Date
    20th December 2010
    Location
    West Michigan - Ottawa Co.
    Posts
    357
    Posts liked by others
    13
    The way I see it, every time the Feds wrote a Bill about guns, we ended up losing Rights, maybe I just don't trust them?

    If the Federal Government wants to help gun Rights they should direct all States to conform to the Constitution regarding gun Rights and get rid of all gun laws that restrict or are contrary to the Second (and all) Amendments.

    Actually we need NO more Federal laws, but we do need to either enforce or get rid of what we already have and let the States prevail as was intended by the writers of our Constitution. YMMV
    "Where is the wisdom that we have lost in knowledge?" T.S. Elliot
    Dominus Vobiscum . . . <))>(
    Last edited by dV8r; 7th January 2017 at 11:49.


  3. #3
    Join Date
    2nd June 2004
    Location
    Terra
    Posts
    22,286
    Posts liked by others
    906
    Quote Originally Posted by dV8r View Post
    ...

    If the Federal Government wants to help gun Rights they should direct all States to conform to the Constitution regarding gun Rights and get rid of all gun laws that restrict or are contrary to the Second (and all) Amendments.

    Actually we need NO more Federal laws, but we do need to either enforce or get rid of what we already have and let the States prevail as was intended by the writers of our Constitution. YMMV
    You can't have it both ways. If the laws we have are contrary to the Constitution, then enforcing them isn't in conformance with the Constitution.

    I think we are pretty much in agreement. I think the Second Amendment says what it says, and I know what the word "infringe" means. A regulation IS an infringement, and all the fancy words in the dictionary can't change that. Fundamentally, the concept of having to pay for a license (or permit) to exercise a fundamental Constitutional right is inherently flawed and, in my layman's opinion, blatantly unconstitutional. But, since the nine jurists in black robes in that fancy building in Washington don't seem to agree with me, my opinion doesn't count for much.

    I still hope we may, some day, get back to the Constitution and eliminate the need for permits altogether. However, I don't expect to see that happen in my lifetime. In the interim, universal reciprocity would be a good first step toward rolling back some of the more restrictive (and more ridiculous) anti-gun laws around the country.

    Of course, just as I know what the word "infringe" means, I also know what "arms" means ... and what it meant to the old guys who wrote that antiquated Constitution thing. I'm sure some of our members are already well familiar with what Tench Coxe wrote around the time of the adoption of the Bill of Rights. For those who don't know what I'm talking about:

    Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress has no power to disarm the militia. Their swords and every terrible implement of the soldier are the birthright of Americans.
    https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Tench_Coxe

    "Every terrible implement of the soldier ..."

    That's what the Founders had in mind when they drafted the Bill of Rights. The Founders didn't trust governments with standing armies. The intention was for "the People" (that's us) to be armed well enough that no army could overcome us. That means we should be allowed to own and use not just bolt action rifles, revolvers, and semi-auto rifles and handguns, we should be allowed to own machine guns, cannons, mortars, howitzers ... yes, if you can afford it, you should be legally allowed to own your own F15, complete with Sidewinder missiles.

    But ... we are where we are, and it took more than 200 years for things to reach this state. We have to undertake the reversal incrementally -- we can't expect to open used F-15 dealerships on every block immediately.

    As to letting the states prevail ... that's great if you live in a free state. I don't. I would welcome the federal government telling my state that its laws are void because they are in violation of the Constitution. (Actually, my state's laws are in violation of our own, state constitution, too. But the judges are appointed by the governor, and I won't mention which party my governor belongs to.)
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside
    Last edited by Hawkmoon; 7th January 2017 at 12:28.


  4. #4
    Join Date
    21st September 2008
    Posts
    9,964
    Posts liked by others
    209
    Nobody is selling F-15s in the used market yet, but FYI the going rate for an L-39C ex-Soviet advanced jet trainer in good condition is around $250k, maybe a bit less. No Sidewinders, but they can carry rocket pods, in theory... though I suspect the FAA might have something to say about those.
    Too many people miss the silver lining because they're expecting gold.
    M. Setter

  5. #5
    Join Date
    20th December 2010
    Location
    West Michigan - Ottawa Co.
    Posts
    357
    Posts liked by others
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkmoon View Post
    You can't have it both ways. If the laws we have are contrary to the Constitution, then enforcing them isn't in conformance with the Constitution.

    I think we are pretty much in agreement. I think the Second Amendment says what it says, and I know what the word "infringe" means. A regulation IS an infringement, and all the fancy words in the dictionary can't change that. Fundamentally, the concept of having to pay for a license (or permit) to exercise a fundamental Constitutional right is inherently flawed and, in my layman's opinion, blatantly unconstitutional. But, since the nine jurists in black robes in that fancy building in Washington don't seem to agree with me, my opinion doesn't count for much.

    I still hope we may, some day, get back to the Constitution and eliminate the need for permits altogether. However, I don't expect to see that happen in my lifetime. In the interim, universal reciprocity would be a good first step toward rolling back some of the more restrictive (and more ridiculous) anti-gun laws around the country.

    Of course, just as I know what the word "infringe" means, I also know what "arms" means ... and what it meant to the old guys who wrote that antiquated Constitution thing. I'm sure some of our members are already well familiar with what Tench Coxe wrote around the time of the adoption of the Bill of Rights. For those who don't know what I'm talking about:
    Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress has no power to disarm the militia. Their swords and every terrible implement of the soldier are the birthright of Americans.
    https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Tench_Coxe

    "Every terrible implement of the soldier ..."

    That's what the Founders had in mind when they drafted the Bill of Rights. The Founders didn't trust governments with standing armies. The intention was for "the People" (that's us) to be armed well enough that no army could overcome us. That means we should be allowed to own and use not just bolt action rifles, revolvers, and semi-auto rifles and handguns, we should be allowed to own machine guns, cannons, mortars, howitzers ... yes, if you can afford it, you should be legally allowed to own your own F15, complete with Sidewinder missiles.

    But ... we are where we are, and it took more than 200 years for things to reach this state. We have to undertake the reversal incrementally -- we can't expect to open used F-15 dealerships on every block immediately.

    As to letting the states prevail ... that's great if you live in a free state. I don't. I would welcome the federal government telling my state that its laws are void because they are in violation of the Constitution. (Actually, my state's laws are in violation of our own, state constitution, too. But the judges are appointed by the governor, and I won't mention which party my governor belongs to.)
    I did say "either enforce or get rid of" so I'm not asking to have it both ways.

    Yes, we have had our self protective (self preservation) Rights chipped away for more than 200 years and no one really made any effort to curtail the erosion. If it gets much worse there will be no alternative but to "give in" or "fight back" before everyone is completely disarmed. This is why truthful history is no longer taught in public schools, our 'elected' officials want most to NOT remember WWII and what happened to the unarmed citizens who's Countries were taken over by the Nazis in an effort to remove the second option.
    "Where is the wisdom that we have lost in knowledge?" T.S. Elliot
    Dominus Vobiscum . . . <))>(
    Last edited by dV8r; 7th January 2017 at 14:36.


  6. #6
    Join Date
    20th December 2010
    Location
    West Michigan - Ottawa Co.
    Posts
    357
    Posts liked by others
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by Spyros View Post
    Nobody is selling F-15s in the used market yet, but FYI the going rate for an L-39C ex-Soviet advanced jet trainer in good condition is around $250k, maybe a bit less. No Sidewinders, but they can carry rocket pods, in theory... though I suspect the FAA might have something to say about those.
    ...don't get me started on the suppression tactics of our governmental "alphabet" Agencies, I'll get banned.
    "Where is the wisdom that we have lost in knowledge?" T.S. Elliot
    Dominus Vobiscum . . . <))>(

  7. #7
    Join Date
    2nd June 2004
    Location
    Terra
    Posts
    22,286
    Posts liked by others
    906
    Quote Originally Posted by Spyros View Post
    Nobody is selling F-15s in the used market yet, but FYI the going rate for an L-39C ex-Soviet advanced jet trainer in good condition is around $250k, maybe a bit less. No Sidewinders, but they can carry rocket pods, in theory... though I suspect the FAA might have something to say about those.
    Does anyone remember the television series Airwolf? Those chain gun pods and the underbelly rocket launcher weren't really "active." They had to be manually put in place for shots when deployed. The FAA gave the show permission to have them, BUT they had to notify the FAA each and every time they were going to fly the bird with the weaponry in place.

    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

  8. #8
    Join Date
    21st September 2008
    Posts
    9,964
    Posts liked by others
    209
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkmoon View Post
    Does anyone remember the television series Airwolf? Those chain gun pods and the underbelly rocket launcher weren't really "active." They had to be manually put in place for shots when deployed. The FAA gave the show permission to have them, BUT they had to notify the FAA each and every time they were going to fly the bird with the weaponry in place.
    This seemed astonishing, so I looked it up: the guns used in the TV series weren't really 'weaponry', just a Hollywood rig that used fuel and sparkplugs, to create the firing effect! So the FAA's worries were probably related to the presence of the extra flammables...

    By contrast, the FAA should have absolutely no worries about these rocket pods, below — or the twin machine guns, visible just under and slightly forward of the cockpit. They are quite real and they've been thoroughly tested (most recently in Syria, against ISIS)... right?

    Too many people miss the silver lining because they're expecting gold.
    M. Setter

  9. #9
    Join Date
    2nd June 2004
    Location
    Terra
    Posts
    22,286
    Posts liked by others
    906
    Quote Originally Posted by Spyros View Post
    This seemed astonishing, so I looked it up: the guns used in the TV series weren't really 'weaponry', just a Hollywood rig that used fuel and sparkplugs, to create the firing effect! So the FAA's worries were probably related to the presence of the extra flammables...
    I don't think they ever used the fake guns in actual flight. More likely the FAA wanted to have a heads up so they could respond to the inevitable calls from people worried about the armed helicopter flying around.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

  10. #10
    Join Date
    4th June 2004
    Posts
    2,829
    Posts liked by others
    185
    Do either the House or Senate bills address those states that have or passed constitutional carry?

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  



Sponsors Panel
If you intend to buy something from Brownells, please use their banners above. Whatever you buy from them, gives us a small commission, which helps us keep these sites alive. You still pay the normal price, our commission comes from their profit, so you have nothing to lose, while we have something to gain. Your help is appreciated.
If you want to become a sponsor and see your banner in the above panel, click here to contact us.

Non-gun-related supporters.
Thank you for visiting our supporters.