argh! Yes, I was wrong. The bullets I have are Hollow Base Round Nose (HBRN) 185 grain. Berry's #84477
Oh, Berry's repaired their link to the Geezer load.
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argh! Yes, I was wrong. The bullets I have are Hollow Base Round Nose (HBRN) 185 grain. Berry's #84477
Oh, Berry's repaired their link to the Geezer load.
The geezer load article is interesting, but he doesn't mention a length, so it's also useless.
Hawkmoon
On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside
Using the depth rod of my slide caliper, I verified the body length of my 185 Grain, Hollow Base Round Nose (with apologies to Hawkmoon, et al), Berry's #84477, lot #04051496P2 (yes, I save the boxes too) bullets to be 0.279". Out of curiosity, I attempted to estimate a maximum OAL by dropping a bullet into my EGW chamber checker (yes, I know) and then measuring the depth to the base of the bullet. I found a minimum depth in the checker to be 0.671". If I were loading for an actual barrel with the same chamber dimensions, I would not want to exceed an OAL of 0.597" + 0.671" = 1.268". The same bullet in different EGW "chamber" maxed at a depth of 0.683" which would admit a 1.280" OAL round. All that said, I expect said exercise to be mere waste of my time.
I switched to a 185 gn SWC this summer and enjoy them immensely. A Bill Wilson article recommended them in shorter barrels.
I used Niemi"s marker pen method for a bullet seat with an additional step for a fmj bullet.
1. Removed barrel from slide.
2. Inserted a trimmed case into chamber and measured from case head to muzzle.
3. Slowly seated bullet to that measurement and went .010 deeper.
4. I cross checked col with my Niemi measurement estimate and plunk test.
I'm pretty sure I sent Niemi24s my measurements on this bullet awhile back but, rather than look for that information, I just grabbed three out of the box and measured them. The average bullet length was .5823", and the average body length was .2333". That makes the average nose length .3490".
So my measurements for the bullet length are close to Niemi24s's number (two of my three, in fact measured .583"), but my numbers for body length are roughly midway between Niemi24s's and Pyrenean's. I'm not sure where that leaves us. I think I'll start my work-up using 1.250" for COAL and make up samples using 5.0, 5.2, and 5.4 grains of Winchester 231, and see what happens.
Hawkmoon
On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside
I have settled on 5.2 gn of 231.
I went to an indoor range recently that required ball ammo. It had been awhile since shooting anything 230 gn and this Armscor ammo seemed to really buck!
Hawkmoon
On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside
Last edited by Hawkmoon; 7th January 2017 at 01:25.
I think you will find the right load on the range, not the internet. This is not a common enough bullet to have widely circulated "recipes." I shot one box of them, no OAL recorded, I probably just seated them however the die was set. They fed, fired, and functioned but since I prefer 200 grain .45s, I did not do any development with them.
Hawkmoon,
Apologies for the confusion in my post, pretty obvious my wording could do that now!
I was referencing my SWC load, being a little stubby nose H&G 130 it is only 1.155 col. I ended up choosing that mold after seeing a pic of one of Niemi's rounds. I don't know why but I was always afraid to go down in bullet weight because I would have to give up bearing surface length...the 130 mold kills 2 birds for me, the lighter weight I wanted and the same bearing surface length as the 200gn H&G 68 I have used for years.
Oddly enough my short Kimber loves them. I have 800 rds trouble free with the exception of 2 due to poor grip from draw. The hot factory 230gn Armscor I used last week stopped 7 times in 45 rds, Bill Wilson seems to be correct about not using heavier bullets in short barrels.
No bullet from manufacturer B will be the same as a bullet from manufacturer A, except if they are cast and use the same third party mold number.
COL depends on YOUR gun and the specific bullet you are using. There is no universal COL.
Next, if competition is based on accuracy, you might want to consider jacketed bullets from Zero, Montana Gold, or Precision Delta or swaged lead bullets from Precision Bullets, Zero, Precision Delta, or Magnus. I have yet to hear of a Bullseye competition being won with plated bullets.
As far as general COL questions:
Per Ramshot:
"SPECIAL NOTE ON CARTRIDGE OVERALL LENGTH “COL”
It is important to note that the SAAMI “COL” values are for the firearms and ammunition manufacturers industry and must be seen as a guideline only.
The individual reloader is free to adjust this dimension to suit their particular firearm-component-weapon combination.
This parameter is determined by various dimensions such as
1) magazine length (space),
2) freebore-lead dimensions of the barrel,
3) ogive or profile of the projectile and
4) position of cannelure or crimp groove.
• Always begin loading at the minimum ‘Start Load.’"
Your COL (OAL) is determined by your barrel (chamber and throat dimensions) and your gun (feed ramp) and your magazine (COL that fits magazine and when the magazine lips release the round for feeding) and the PARTICULAR bullet you are using. What worked in a pressure barrel or the lab's gun or in my gun has very little to do with what will work best in your gun.
Take the barrel out of the gun. Create two inert dummy rounds (no powder or primer) at max COL and remove enough case mouth flare for rounds to chamber (you can achieve this by using a sized case—expand-and-flare it, and remove the flare just until the case "plunks" in the barrel).
Drop the inert rounds in and decrease the COL until they chamber completely. This will be your "max" effective COL. I prefer to have the case head flush with the barrel hood. After this, place the inert rounds in the magazine and be sure they fit the magazine and feed and chamber.
You can also do this for any chambering problems you have. Remove the barrel and drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in barrel (or gage) and rotate it back-and-forth.
Remove and inspect the round:
1) scratches on bullet--COL is too long
2) scratches on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp
3) scratches just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case
4) scratches on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit
5) scratches on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.
NRA Life Member
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