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Thread: Berry's Bullet Question

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  1. #1
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    Berry's Bullet Question

    I've been loading for .45 ACP for many years with Berry's 230-grain, plated round nose bullets. I recently decided that I'm tired of giving up an advantage in the competitions at my local range to the guys who load and shoot special, super-light ammo for competition, so I decided I was going to try some of Berry's 185-grain, hollow-base plated round nose bullets. I assumed they were the same shape/profile as the 230-grain except for the chunk of lead taken out of the base.

    Well, they're here ... and they are NOT the same overall profile as the 230-grain. The overall length of the bullet is less, by about .040". So that means I probably can't load to the same COAL or I won't have much bullet inside the case. Berry's, of course, is basically useless as far as providing loading data so I'm trying to figure out what to use as a starting point for COAL.

    Has anyone here used those bullets? If so, could you post what your dimensions are and how the bullets work out for you?

    Thanks.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

  2. #2
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    I haven't used any of those bullets, but this method should work to find the minimum COAL...



    ...because all of the body and none of the nose will be inside the case, just like a round of GI ball shown below:



    The maximum COAL would be whatever allows the round to fit into the magazine and the chamber or maybe the SAAMI maximum of 1.275".
    When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind. [Lord Kelvin]

  3. #3
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    Plan A. Load 185 HB with same seating die setting as 230s.
    Plan B. Load 185 HB to same OAL as 230s.
    Plan C. Load 185 HB to same seating depth as 230s.

    Adjust powder charge for desired velocity and function. I assume you are not shooting IPSC or IDPA that requires a Power Factor.

  4. #4
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    I loaded some of Berry's 185 RNHPs and moved on. I liked the bullets but find cast lead to be more in line with SHMBO's price range.
    If I recall, accuracy was acceptable enough for my lousy aim.

    Berry's suggests a COL of 1.250.
    See https://www.berrysmfg.com/item/bp-45-452-185gr-hbrn
    Do not bother clicking the link to the "Geezer Load" document on Berry's site as the link is broken. That said, give Berry's a call, I have found them to be extremely helpful.

  5. #5
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    Now that I think about those bullets a bit, I finally remembered that you'd sent me three of them last June and I measured BOAL = 0.583", Body Length = 0.204" for a Nose Length of 0.583" - 0.204" = 0.379". This gives a a Minimum COAL of 0.379" + 0.895" = 1.274" with a 0.895" case.

    If Berry's suggests a COAL of 1.250" that seems about 0.024" too short as it puts about 0.024" of the nose below the case mouth of the average 0.895" case.
    When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind. [Lord Kelvin]
    Last edited by niemi24s; 5th January 2017 at 10:06.


  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrenean View Post
    I loaded some of Berry's 185 RNHPs and moved on. I liked the bullets but find cast lead to be more in line with SHMBO's price range.
    If I recall, accuracy was acceptable enough for my lousy aim.

    Berry's suggests a COL of 1.250.
    See https://www.berrysmfg.com/item/bp-45-452-185gr-hbrn
    Do not bother clicking the link to the "Geezer Load" document on Berry's site as the link is broken. That said, give Berry's a call, I have found them to be extremely helpful.
    I have already called Berry's and they said 1.250". Bot they also say to use 1.250" for their PLRN 230-grain bullets. Given that the overall length and the body/base length of the two bullets is significantly different, I found Berry's guidance to be, as usual, of no value. They are very friendly and well-intended, but useless. They make good bullets, but it seems they must not use their own products, or else they have absolutely no in-house testing and no interest in having testing done by an outside agency.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

  7. #7
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    Do you think we should send Berry's a link to this thread?
    When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind. [Lord Kelvin]

  8. #8
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    Dan's measurement reminded me that I always save a few bullets when I work up loads. Turns out, I have five 185 grain RNHPs. The bullets that I have have a BOAL of 0.597" and a body length of .279". The resulting nose length is .597"-.279" = 0.318". Yielding COL(subscript min) to be 0.318" + 0.895" = 1.213" ...

    Error sources : I used a micrometer and a .020" feeler gauge under the bullet base to measure the BOAL. This is my first time scraping a bullet body to measure body length. I may have messed that up. I scraped four locations on only one bullet. My sample size for body length is too small. I measured body length with a caliper as I could not fathom how to measure the scraping with a micrometer.

    QC check: I remeasured the BOAL with a caliper and verified the BOAL of 0.597". No noticeable variation between the five rounds in BOAL.
    Last edited by Pyrenean; 5th January 2017 at 17:31.


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrenean View Post
    . . .I have five 185 grain RNHPs. The bullets that I have have a BOAL of 0.597" and a body length of .279".
    If you provide the manufacturer and bullet model # I'll add this data to the chart in the Bullet Dimension sticky.

    A fairly good measurement of the body scrapings can be made using the depth rod of a slide caliper. The depth micrometer shown just makes the measurement a little easier as its base provides a stable place for the bullet to sit.
    When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind. [Lord Kelvin]
    Last edited by niemi24s; 5th January 2017 at 18:25.


  10. #10
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    Just for clarity -- Pyrenean has twice mentioned RNHP, which I assume means Round Nose Hollow Point (which seems to be a bit of a contradiction in terms). The bullets I'm going to be experimenting with are Plated Round Nose Hollow Base -- not hollow point.

    https://www.berrysmfg.com/item/bp-45-452-185gr-hbrn

    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside
    Last edited by Hawkmoon; 6th January 2017 at 10:39.


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