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Thread: Differences of Series 70 and Series 80 continued......

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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkmoon View Post
    Correct.

    A body at rest will tend to remain at rest unless acted upon by outside forces.

    A body in motion will tend to remain in motion unless acted upon by outside forces.

    The "body" we're concerned with is the firing pin. It's inside the slide assembly, of course. If the gun is dropped in a muzzle-down orientation, everything accelerates due to the effect of gravity. When the gun hits the floor, everything is traveling downward at the same velocity. Muzzle hits floor, barrel and slide stop almost instantaneously. Firing pin keeps traveling downward until the deceleration imparted by friction and the firing pin spring can stop it. If those forces can't stop it, or slow it down sufficiently to prevent setting off the primer, the gun will fire.
    The barrel and slide do not stop instantaneously, as the barrel and slide will "recoil" together until the barrel stops against the VIS of the frame; that's not much linear distance, but the recoil spring and mainspring (if the hammer isn't cocked when the gun is dropped) are slowing its movement.
    If the gun has a FLGR, then the slide/barrel/frame are a solid unit, with only firing pin "free" to move on impact.
    "A grip safety is just another excess moving part. I have never known one to prevent an accident, and moreover, it is difficult to postulate a circumstance in which it might." Jeff Cooper

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickB View Post
    The barrel and slide do not stop instantaneously, as the barrel and slide will "recoil" together until the barrel stops against the VIS of the frame; that's not much linear distance, but the recoil spring and mainspring (if the hammer isn't cocked when the gun is dropped) are slowing its movement.
    But the barrel and slide DO stop "almost" instantaneously -- unless the floor is so soft that they can penetrate the surface. The "recoil" you are describing, in the case of a muzzle drop, isn't the slide and barrel moving, it's the frame continuing to move after the slide and barrel have stopped. In this instance, the slide and barrel don't stop against the VIS, the VIS stops against the barrel (with the recoil spring guide sandwiched betrween, of course).
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickB View Post
    The barrel and slide do not stop instantaneously, as the barrel and slide will "recoil" together until the barrel stops against the VIS of the frame; that's not much linear distance, but the recoil spring and mainspring (if the hammer isn't cocked when the gun is dropped) are slowing its movement.
    Once again: the frame is completely irrelevant in this.

    Gun lands muzzle down. Ergo, the front of the slide touches the floor... AND STOPS. The rear of the slide, containing the firing pin, also STOPS. The firing pin continued on down, under its own inertia.

    The frame, the VIS and the FLGR (if present) don't come into play at all.

    The only way the frame could come into the equation is if by the time the firing pin strikes, the gun has moved far enough out of battery that the firing pin misses the primer... but that sounds very unlikely. The firing pin will move forward much faster than the frame would, to allow this to happen.
    Too many people miss the silver lining because they're expecting gold.
    M. Setter
    Likes (1) :
    Mark75H (22nd March 2017)


  4. #34
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    Most if not all modern pistols have a firing pin block. Why some people think it's so terrible for a 1911 to have one is beyond me.

  5. #35
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    The barrel and slide do not stop instantaneously, as the barrel and slide will "recoil" together until the barrel stops against the VIS of the frame; that's not much linear distance, but the recoil spring and mainspring (if the hammer isn't cocked when the gun is dropped) are slowing its movement.
    Once again: the frame is completely irrelevant in this.
    It's not irrelevant, as the guide rod is solidly mounted against the frame, transferring all of the impact energy to the firing pin, unlike the slide which is mounted to the frame on a spring, absorbing some of the impact energy rather than all of it going to the firing pin.
    Replace the springs on your car with solid shafts, go for a drive, think of your butt as the firing pin, the seat as the firing pin spring, and tell me it's irrelevant?
    "A grip safety is just another excess moving part. I have never known one to prevent an accident, and moreover, it is difficult to postulate a circumstance in which it might." Jeff Cooper

  6. #36
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    OK RickB, let me use your car example:

    Yes, if you replace the springs in your car with solid shafts you'll break your back at the first bump. That's because your car seat is in the cabin. But in our "slide slams to the deck muzzle-first" analogy, the part of the car that concerns us isn't the cabin, it's the wheels or the axle (if your car has a solid one)! And the axle will get the same jolt from the bump you hit, whether your car's suspension wears springs or solid shafts.

    Again:

    Gun lands muzzle down. Ergo, the front of the slide touches the floor... AND STOPS. The rear of the slide, containing the firing pin, also STOPS. The firing pin continues on down, under its own inertia. Bang. The recoil spring, the FLGR (if present) don't have time to get involved.
    Too many people miss the silver lining because they're expecting gold.
    M. Setter
    Last edited by Spyros; 6th April 2017 at 13:52.


  7. #37
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    If you like mechanical firing pin safeties then understand how they work and check them. Several years ago I found a good deal on a 1991 SS Colt Commander. I realized the little plunger was stuck up. After detail stripping and cleaning it I found it had some little burs on the hole the Series 80 firing pin plunger was in. The little lever pushed the plunger up and it stayed there. So essentially the mechanical firing pin safety did not work. I cleaned up the tiny bur with a small file and ended up putting in new Series 80 parts from Cylinder and slide plus a new sear and disconnector and a new trigger, and a new MSH. Plus new wood stocks instead of the grips. Not in the picture but also replaced every spring in that pistol.



    I guess the moral of the story is if you have a pistol with a mechanical firing pin safety then you probably need to check it and be sure it works. The pin or lever pushes the plunger up, but does it come back down to block the forward travel of the firing pin?
    NRA Life Member

  8. #38
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    Just came home with an impulse buy...a Series 80 GM - stainless - that looks like 1987 on Colt's SN site...now I come to look up the differences between my other Colt GM - a series 70 - and my new one...and maybe my OLD old one from Argentina.
    I felt like the trigger on the 80 was a little wiggly...until I understood that some take-up is needed to disengage the safety...and found the trigger is very clean and not heavy...a good carry pistol trigger.
    AND, since I am what I see referred to here as "snow-flaky" I will learn the pistol as it is rather than mod it on the say-so of some rightie moron traitor-lover. Thanks for the info and this GREAT forum.
    Have a nice life.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by DNS View Post
    Most if not all modern pistols have a firing pin block. Why some people think it's so terrible for a 1911 to have one is beyond me.
    Popularity of a method doesn't make it good. Or bad. In fact that is called appeal to popularity, a logical fallacy.

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