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Thread: A Simple Observation

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  1. #21
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    12th June 2010
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    This forum is a great place to learn and research before spending a large amount on a 1911.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    29th November 2011
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    Please understand that this is but one man's (mine) opinion.

    Having been on and off this forum for a couple of years I too am awed by the amount of knowledge on here. Some of the better 'smiths seem to regularly visit this forum and they contribute to the discussion as, I would assume, they see fit and can find time for. However as someone that is a "regular" on some other forums, this forum seems... unfriendly.

    Maybe, as a regular visitor/contributor/moderator you are so used to it that it isn't even visible to you any more. Or, maybe you understand that the rules can and are bent somewhat. Or, maybe I'm a bit touched. However have you ever taken a look at some of the stickies that are posted about at the entrance to some of the sub forums? They seem downright overbearing and contain an almost nasty tone to them. Additionally a lot of forums, although they don't let posters sell items if they don't have "x" post count, they do allow the forums to be viewed by all. What does it "cost" the forum to allow a new user to view or even buy from other members?

    Those are the two things I can think of off the top of my head. And again, they are but one man's opinion.

    This is a great forum. I hope that it can begin to gain more members and grow accordingly.

    Christopher

  3. #23
    Join Date
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    FYI, the reason you can't see anything for sale in the Flea market, in both 'guns' and 'no guns here', is because as I type this, there really isn't anything for sale.

    ALL members can see ALL of the flea market.

    In this thread, we have been told that people like it here because of the lack of any flaming ... and at the same time we get complaints that we are maybe a bit hostile and/or impersonal. It's not easy striking a balance, though I would like to think that it's these texts at the entrance of the sub-forums that seem hostile, not the actual contributions from members and moderators.

    Also, I think it's worth pointing out that the reason we put those bright RED-letter warnings at the top of several sub-forums was because there really seemed to be no other way to get people to stop posting irrelevant topics in there. Our aim is for each forum section to be a usable point of reference for the subject therein. So when a member uses the subforum of 1911 maker 'A' to discuss the cause of a malfunction (despite those RED letters saying this isn't the place to do so), that section loses out because its normal content is diluted, the gunsmithing section (where this thread should have been posted) loses out because it doesn't have a post which could have been useful to owners of other 1911s and last but not least, the member who made this mistake loses out, because he would be getting more and better feedback for his original question, had he posted it where he should have.

    So yes, we always move such threads when we see them, or if the thread originally started as a 'here's my new gun' before the OP noted his problems, we politely suggest he starts a new thread in the right section. Other (perhaps more polite) forums, have a policy of simply locking any new thread that is out of place or any old thread that is drifting off-topic. To my knowledge, we've never done this, though you will see threads being locked if they have had no new posts in 12 months.
    Too many people miss the silver lining because they're expecting gold.
    M. Setter

  4. #24
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spyros View Post
    FYI, the reason you can't see anything for sale in the Flea market, in both 'guns' and 'no guns here', is because as I type this, there really isn't anything for sale.

    ALL members can see ALL of the flea market.

    In this thread, we have been told that people like it here because of the lack of any flaming ... and at the same time we get complaints that we are maybe a bit hostile and/or impersonal. It's not easy striking a balance, though I would like to think that it's these texts at the entrance of the sub-forums that seem hostile, not the actual contributions from members and moderators.

    Also, I think it's worth pointing out that the reason we put those bright RED-letter warnings at the top of several sub-forums was because there really seemed to be no other way to get people to stop posting irrelevant topics in there. Our aim is for each forum section to be a usable point of reference for the subject therein. So when a member uses the subforum of 1911 maker 'A' to discuss the cause of a malfunction (despite those RED letters saying this isn't the place to do so), that section loses out because its normal content is diluted, the gunsmithing section (where this thread should have been posted) loses out because it doesn't have a post which could have been useful to owners of other 1911s and last but not least, the member who made this mistake loses out, because he would be getting more and better feedback for his original question, had he posted it where he should have.

    So yes, we always move such threads when we see them, or if the thread originally started as a 'here's my new gun' before the OP noted his problems, we politely suggest he starts a new thread in the right section. Other (perhaps more polite) forums, have a policy of simply locking any new thread that is out of place or any old thread that is drifting off-topic. To my knowledge, we've never done this, though you will see threads being locked if they have had no new posts in 12 months.
    Spyros, please don't take this the wrong way. It's not meant as demeaning or in any way am I intending to start an argument. Honestly, unless you contact me via PM I wont be commenting further.

    "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result."

    If you would like to see the forum grow, it might be time to change your approach. Look at what the other, busier forums are doing and emulate it in your own, unique style. If not, this forum will continually slow down and lose members.

    Additionally, the layout here is a bit awkward. All the sub-forums on here that deal with M1911.org at the top of the page could be moved down. The manufacturers sub-forums could be moved up. Gunsmithing to follow. For sale. M1911 minutiae below that.

    As to the classifieds, at the top of the page I am told that I don't have permission to view. Accidental or intentional, that's what is there.

    Again, all just one man's opinion. I'm simply trying to help.

    FWIW, I kinda like it here. I just wish it was a bit busier. Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

    C

  5. #25
    Join Date
    29th May 2004
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    Neither Spyros nor anybody else is taking your comments the wrong way. We are all very interested in the opinions of our members.

    Let's try and answer some of your points:

    1. Sales etc. The reason we established our rule for selling something (30 days since registration and 30 posts contributed) is because we wanted to protect our members from the opportunistic sellers. Our effort has constantly being to protect our members and we have gone to the extreme to do so. For example, have you ever wondered why we do not see any spam in here? There are several thousands of registration attempts, from spammers every month. These get blocked, by clever software that we have installed in this site. I feel proud whenever I check those statistics (registration attempts by spammers, which get blocked). The same was the reason for the limitations in the sales forums. If members think that these limitations should be removed, we are here to discuss that, but let me tell you that we have discussed these with our members in the past, and the general opinion was for these, not against them. Again, let's talk about them.

    2. Search engine placement. M1911.ORG used to be the first selection by all major search engines until a few years ago. Then Google started favoring youtube, wikipedia etc and started also to allow promotion of web sites (paying, in order to see your site move up in the listings). If you do a google search for "m1911 pistols" today, what you get is a link to wikipedia, several links to manufacturers (Colt, Sig, Kimber S&W, Taurus), then a link to gunbroker and only then, you get a link to m1911.org. As you understand, m1911.org can't afford to pay google to promote our sites, so they appear above the manufacturers sites. I feel lucky to see that we still appear in the first page.

    3. Unfriendly environment. Two things: first, we try to make m1911.org the #1 reference on the 1911 pistol. That means that every visitor should be able to find the information he needs, easily. For that, we need a filing system. This is the reason why we insist that every thread is placed in the proper forum. Just like a library, you can't find a novel if it is placed in the science section, right? Same thing here. Still, with all those red letters, with all those "ATTENTION", our moderators have to move several threads every week, because they are placed in the wrong forum. And when we do that, we issue an alert or a warning, telling our member who made the mistake, that he posted his question in the wrong forum. You know what usually happens? The member gets off and stops participating. So what are we supposed to do? Leave a gunsmithing question in the Holsters forum? Or leave a question about a Colt Peacemaker in the Colt's forum?

    4. Wrong placement of the forums. In the first section, we tried to collect all the forums that help members with their day-to-day life here. If enough member believe that this section should be moved below the manufacturers forums section, I have no problem moving it down. Again, it all depends on what our members want. Speak up guys.
    John Caradimas SV1CEC
    The M1911 Pistols Organization
    http://www.m1911.org

  6. #26
    Join Date
    13th November 2011
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    John,
    I have no problem with how the forum is run-period-!
    I remember an incident early in my experience with the forum, when things could have gone badly. Instead you reacted like a man should and I have not forgotten, nor will I forget.
    That does not mean that their may be differences of opinion but because of how you handled the situation you have my respect. That is probably the highest compliment I am capable of giving another person.
    Bob Segars

  7. #27
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    Bob, I think we all try to make this a better place. 1911s are our love, so we owe it to ourselves.

    Thanks for the kind words.
    John Caradimas SV1CEC
    The M1911 Pistols Organization
    http://www.m1911.org

  8. #28
    Join Date
    2nd June 2004
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    I am a member of one "gun" forum that I almost never visit, primarily because of the moderating. Members here occasionally complain that our moderating here is overly strict, but at least ours is objective and consistent. No, we don't (intentionally) allow anyone to "bend" the rules. This is the only forum I know of where the rules for moderators, as well as the rules for members, are posted p for everyone to see. On that other site, some of the moderators were grossly arbitrary and genuinely nasty in their moderation. And they typically acted unilaterally and were unwilling to reconsider once they had taken an action.

    On another "gun" forum, which I do still visit, moderation seems to be equally arbitrary. I know that on that forum the moderators discuss things "back channel" -- but I don't know if they do so prior to taking an action. On that forum, if you post in the wrong discussion area the "staff" doesn't try to be helpful and move your post/thread to the correct subforum -- they simply lock the thread (sometimes with an explanation, often without). Here we try to be helpful by moving posts to the correct area, and we send the originating member an advisory as well as (usually) leaving a redirect in the original location to help everyone get a better sense of what belongs where. I know why the other forum just locks threads -- it's more work to move something and to send a notice than it is to just click the "Lock thread" icon. Should we adopt the other approach? Would you be happier seeing locked posts scattered around the site, often with no explanation? We don't think so.

    We have a warning system for violations, with demerit points for repeat offenders. That's all spelled out and available for members to see what it is and how it works. Other forums also keep a tally of violation points -- but on other sites, you may get a note that your post has been removed and you earned demerit points BUT there's never any indication of how many points, when (or if) they expire, and sometimes not even a clear explanation of what rule you (allegedly) violated. Obviously, that site thinks that's the right way to run a forum. We disagree.

    It periodically amuses me to see someone accuse us of draconian moderating when I see how arbitrary and draconian the moderating is on other sites. I can't prove it, but I strongly suspect that we don't see any complaints about the moderating on those sites because they don't allow such discussions ... period. Here, we have an appeals process for any individual warning, and (obviously, since we're doing it) we allow open discussion of the rules and the moderating philosophy.

    Lastly, I know for a fact that John has removed moderators who didn't follow the rules they were supposed to be enforcing.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside
    Last edited by Hawkmoon; 27th December 2014 at 11:24.


  9. #29
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    I'm a mod on another forum, and a member of a few more.

    Other than M1911.ORG, and the one I mod on; the rest are pretty much "free for alls" with bickering, agressive behavior, and other such nonsense. And, as Hawk noted; folks can get banned from them without much, if any, explanation, while others that are a never ending source of irritation and discord will remain members for many years.

    I much prefer enforced civility and rational discourse, myself.
    "Sights are for the unenlightened."

    Rick

    IDPA Certified Safety Officer

  10. #30
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    My opinion of this site "is it sux Big time." Way over moderated. Not any info because so few post so how are you gonna get any info. What a shame as when I joined 4 years ago it was ok but has dropped on posted info tremendously. Use the word and you could be banned. Really? Y'all need to rethink this site as it has great potential but is going nowhere and is made fun of on many other forums. I looked today for the first time in months and 5, I mean 5 people are on the Colt forum. That is crazy. Look at other sites and there will be 200 or better. They are modded to heavy IMO also but 5. This site is a waste of time and that is a shame. JMO
    Last edited by limbkiller; 28th December 2014 at 15:04.


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