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Thread: Auto-Ordnance 1911 "BKO"

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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spyros View Post
    ...or to put it another way: black oxide is another name for the finish on the slide of your Glock, S&W M&P or just about any other plastic-framed pistol out there. So it's pretty good.
    I believe the black oxide finish varies from the finish you have on a Glock, S&W M&P or Springfield XD. They call that finish by different names, the most common being Tenifer. It is a salt bath ferritic nitrocarburizing and is done at a high temperature. It will penetrate the surface and protect the steel even if the outer finish is worn off. Black oxide is a low temperature process, does not penetrate and if scratched or worn off will not protect the steel.

  2. #12
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    'Tenifer' is Glock's own name for this finish. 'Melonite' is someone else's name for it... the list (of names) goes on. There are some variations to the same recipe, but they are essentially the same.
    Too many people miss the silver lining because they're expecting gold.
    M. Setter

  3. #13
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    I did a bit more research on this and from what I've read on page 45 of Patrick Sweeney's Gun Digest of Glock, the Tenifer treatment occurs after machining, gauging, inspection and serial number stamping of the slide. Once the Tenifer treatment is complete, then the slide is then given it's black oxide coating to make the surface dark and non reflective. The black is not the Tenifer. If you were to remove all the black coating, the steel would still be protected by the Tenifer treatment which provides the real hardness and rust proof protection.
    Last edited by Scoutmaster; 10th February 2015 at 04:55.


  4. #14
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    Whoa! So Sweeney says that the Tenifer coating and the black oxide coating are two different processes, that are applied to the same gun??

    Google 'salt bath ferritic nitrocarburizing' to see how wrong this is.
    Too many people miss the silver lining because they're expecting gold.
    M. Setter
    Last edited by Spyros; 10th February 2015 at 23:50.


  5. #15
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    I did just that and also Googled "black oxide". It seems Sweeney was right. Black oxide is totally different from Tenifer and is a separate process. Live and learn huh?

  6. #16
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    I'd love to see a source for these, if you kept it.
    Too many people miss the silver lining because they're expecting gold.
    M. Setter

  7. #17
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    I just did a Google search on both and here's what they come up with at Wikipedia for Black Oxide: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_oxide
    and here for Tenifer:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferritic_nitrocarburizing

    Wikipedia also agrees with Sweeney:
    The Glock pistol has a relatively low slide profile, which holds the barrel axis close to the shooter's hand and makes the pistol more comfortable to fire by reducing muzzle rise and allows for faster aim recovery in rapid firing sequences. The rectangular slide is milled from a single block of ordnance-grade steel using CNC machinery.[37] The barrel and slide undergo two hardening processes prior to treatment with a proprietary nitriding process called Tenifer. The Tenifer treatment is applied in a 500 C nitrate bath.[36] The Tenifer finish is between 0.04 mm (0.0016 in) and 0.05 mm (0.0020 in) in thickness, and is characterized by extreme resistance to wear and corrosion; it penetrates the metal, and treated parts have similar properties even below the surface to a certain depth.[38]
    The Tenifer process produces a matte gray-colored, non-glare surface with a 64 Rockwell C hardness rating and a 99% resistance to salt water corrosion (which meets or exceeds stainless steel specifications),[37] making the Glock particularly suitable for individuals carrying the pistol concealed as the highly chloride-resistant finish allows the pistol to better endure the effects of perspiration.[38] Glock steel parts having the Tenifer treatment are more corrosion-resistant than analogous gun parts having other finishes or treatments, including Teflon, bluing, hard chrome plating, or phosphates.[38] After applying the Tenifer process, a black Parkerized decorative surface finish is applied. The underlaying Tenifer treatment will remain protecting these parts even if the decorative surface finish were to wear off.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glock
    They call the Black Oxide "a black Parkerized decorative surface finish" in this article.

  8. #18
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    That's as perfect an example of why Wikipedia is unreliable as I've even seen.

    First of all, your second link is not about Tenifer, it is about Ferritic Nitrocarburizing. Fortunately, in it we read:
    Salt bath ferritic nitrocarburizing is also known as liquid ferritic nitrocarburizing or liquid nitrocarburizing[8] and is also known by the trademarked names Tufftride[2] and Tenifer.[9]
    Of course Wikipedia is about as reliable as a weather forecast, and this is the case here, because source [9] is missing. Source [2] is for a book, that we can't read. Oh well.

    If we choose to take everything in the first two links as reliable, we learn that black oxide involves "A hot bath of sodium hydroxide, nitrates, and nitrites, at 285 F (141 C), used to convert the surface of the material into magnetite (Fe3O4). ". By contrast, Salt bath ferritic nitrocarburizing is... well, a salt bath of something slightly different. See also Nitriding and pay special attention to a section in the middle, about Plasma Nitriding... since we're mixing finishes together, we might as well get Ionbond PVD in there!

    Also, the black oxide page doesn't really mention anything about the process being an evolution of bluing (although magnetite is a good clue, because another name for it is 'rust')... this would have been useful because it IS true that the term is vague-enough that it can be said to include bluing. Which isn't very helpful.

    Your last Wiki link, about Glock, is even better. In the same paragraph, we read that
    The Tenifer process produces a matte gray-colored, non-glare surface...
    ...and also that
    After applying the Tenifer process, a black Parkerized decorative surface finish is applied.
    Wonderful, just wonderful. Fortunately, unlike other Wiki articles, this one has a source for all this, which is... some guy's blog. Usually people post some sort of name or alias when blogging, but this guy is known simply as 'the editor'. Nice. At least he seems to recognize that Tenifer and Melonite are basically the same, with some differences in materials and temperatures... but the temperature range he gives seems a bit low.

    Anyway, the suggestion that you can parkerize a surface AFTER finishing it with Tenifer/Melonite (also given in the ferritic nitrocarburizing page, without any sources), is really quite silly. First off, parkerizing is not black and cannot be black, because it is not a finish. All parkerizing does to steel is create tiny pores in the surface, that will hold oil, to keep oxygen away from steel. That's it. If you take a parkerized piece of steel and blast it with brake cleaner, to flush out the oil, you're left holding a bare metal piece of steel. That's why you've never seen a parked gun with a glossy finish, not unless it's been painted (parkerizing makes a really good undercoat for 'spray & bake' finishes).

    Glocks have a bit of a satin/glossy sheen on them, don't they?

    Incidentally, if you read Wiki's page on Parkerizing, you'll see that the chemicals used in the baths are quite similar to those in the processes above, but at much lower temperatures. So again, phosphating/parkerizing after melonite/tenifer just doesn't make sense. That said, there are variations of salt-bath nitriding that will create a porous surface, that can be used to hold oil, as an additional means of corrosion protection.

    The point, is that ALL these finishes are surface-conversion finishes. They all involve dipping the metal parts in a tank or a series of tanks, at different temperatures, to give the surface of the metal a new set of properties. Good-old bluing was simply a layer of 'sealed' rust, that didn't allow oxygen to travel further into the metal (unlike regular iron rust). Parkerizing/phosphating is converts the surface to a porous oil magnet. And salt-bath itriding, or whatever its sellers call it, is used to create a tough nitrogen-carbon layer on the surface of the same metal. They are evolutions of the same idea, applied slightly differently, according to whatever recipe each company thinks is best (or can do, perhaps to avoid infringing someone else's patents).
    Too many people miss the silver lining because they're expecting gold.
    M. Setter
    Last edited by Spyros; 20th February 2015 at 09:57.


  9. #19
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    I, for one, couldn't care less if Glocks (including all their Tupperware parts) were dipped in liquid hog manure and baked in the Sun.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurryin' Hoosier View Post
    I, for one, couldn't care less if Glocks (including all their Tupperware parts) were dipped in liquid hog manure and baked in the Sun.
    LOL and I don't often say that!

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