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Thread: John Moses Browning can still teach us a lot!

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  1. #1
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    John Moses Browning can still teach us a lot!

    Modern engineers could learn a lot about design and business by studying the life and work habits of John Moses Browning. Unfortunately, the campus politics at many centers of technical learning make teaching such topics most unlikely. Political correctness leads to its own form of self-destructive ignorance. You can read one engineer's opinion of Mr. Browning and his lifework by clicking the following link.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8b...it?usp=sharing

  2. #2
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    Browning used to install the grip bushings, and then spead the bottom of the bushing out so they don't come loose and get stripped. Now every 1911 has the bushing come loose, and about half of them get stripped. Brownell's make a killing selling an oversize tap with four oversized bushings for Fifty bucks. John Zbrowning solved the problem 115 years ago, but it was reverse engineered out by the bean counters.
    Sorry if I sound bitter, but they just got my fifty bucks. That's one tiny detail that He put into it. Everything that He touched was designed to perfection. Any variation from His original plan makes it much less than it could be. He would not allow a soldier to be stuck with rattling grips when His life depended on the weapon. I just wonder how far they vary from his original prototype?
    Last edited by AjayTaylor; 30th December 2014 at 17:30.


  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by docfox View Post
    Modern engineers could learn a lot about design and business by studying the life and work habits of John Moses Browning. Unfortunately, the campus politics at many centers of technical learning make teaching such topics most unlikely. Political correctness leads to its own form of self-destructive ignorance. You can read one engineer's opinion of Mr. Browning and his lifework by clicking the following link.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8b...it?usp=sharing
    Nice write up on JMB, thanks for sharing it.

    One of the things that has changed dramatically is the education system of those engineers. In most of today's universities it is all about "knowledge" with little or no emphases on "wisdom". There is very large difference with knowledge being nearly void of common sense, ethics, morality and God. Whereas wisdom comes from honoring, respecting and obeying God.
    "Where is the wisdom that we have lost in knowledge?" T.S. Elliot
    Dominus Vobiscum . . . <))>(

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by AjayTaylor View Post
    Browning used to install the grip bushings, and then spead the bottom of the bushing out so they don't come loose and get stripped. Now every 1911 has the bushing come loose, and about half of them get stripped. Brownell's make a killing selling an oversize tap with four oversized bushings for Fifty bucks. John Zbrowning solved the problem 115 years ago, but it was reverse engineered out by the bean counters.
    Sorry if I sound bitter, but they just got my fifty bucks. That's one tiny detail that He put into it. Everything that He touched was designed to perfection. Any variation from His original plan makes it much less than it could be. He would not allow a soldier to be stuck with rattling grips when His life depended on the weapon. I just wonder how far they vary from his original prototype?
    I'm pretty sure the bushings on my Rock Island (Armscor) pistol will never back out. Unfortunately, they're in so tight, that it will be a problem if I ever want to use slim-profile grips.

    Since the newly-manufactured 1911s aren't going to the front lines, and the owners aren't stuck in a trench or a hedgerow, we can use Lock-tite on the bushings, or find some other way to tighten them up.

  5. #5
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    I have hired several "out of college" entry level ME's in the past several months. It amazes me as to the lack of "tactical" mechanical skill exhibited by these youngsters. Software has taken the place of a brain when calculating design variables. I used a slide rule in my day. Hey, things change, I understand, however, CAD/CAM generated designs don't give an engineer the "feel". Henry Ford, Bell, Browning and those Boeing boys who designed the B-17....now there's some real engineering.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by crockett007 View Post
    I have hired several "out of college" entry level ME's in the past several months. It amazes me as to the lack of "tactical" mechanical skill exhibited by these youngsters. Software has taken the place of a brain when calculating design variables. I used a slide rule in my day. Hey, things change, I understand, however, CAD/CAM generated designs don't give an engineer the "feel". Henry Ford, Bell, Browning and those Boeing boys who designed the B-17....now there's some real engineering.
    I really had wondered about this and I certainly do not want to disparage anyone's degree but it would seem to me that one must be much more a computer guy than in the past. One of my friends who is a tool room manager tells me his people can hold tolerances of 5 microns. This is very impressive but I have to wonder what would happen if they were using manual equipment?
    However people are about as smart today as they were in the past, what was done then could be done now if necessary.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Segars View Post
    I really had wondered about this and I certainly do not want to disparage anyone's degree but it would seem to me that one must be much more a computer guy than in the past. One of my friends who is a tool room manager tells me his people can hold tolerances of 5 microns. This is very impressive but I have to wonder what would happen if they were using manual equipment?
    However people are about as smart today as they were in the past, what was done then could be done now if necessary.
    Today's engineering student is faced with a far broader range of topics to learn then we were challenged by in years past. Some will master the basics as well as the "new" surrounding methods and tools (such as the PC), others will probably get lost in the hype and noise of the modern stuff. Those good students who gain a firm grasp of fundamentals will use the new computational tools to do far more than their predecessors ever could accomplish. Engineering is far less compartmentalized than it was in the past and education has evolved to support this. For example, Mechanical Engineering courses now incorporate a lot more electronic and electrical engineering. These topics have been added because the importance of melding experimental verification with theoretical prediction has become accepted and expected (a very good thing). Competent use of transducers and electronic measurement instruments as well as computers to implement predictive math models is now expected of a new ME. However, modern industry has also given rise to "bean counter management", wherein everyone is expected to do more in less time with fewer resources. JMB was smart enough to avoid working under the thumb of such ill-guided industry captains, just another indication of his genius!

    crockett007 hit upon a special ingredient of "pre-computer" engineering - the slide rule. Here's my take on this venerable calculating tool: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8b...ew?usp=sharing

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by docfox View Post
    However, modern industry has also given rise to "bean counter management", wherein everyone is expected to do more in less time with fewer resources. JMB was smart enough to avoid working under the thumb of such ill-guided industry captains, just another indication of his genius!
    Hmm...

    I seem to recall reading how Browning would design, say a new lever-action rifle, take it to Winchester, who would promptly buy the design to keep JMB from selling it to someone else, then shelve it, since they were happy enough with their existing lever-actions (designed by... guess who).

    There's a similar but unverified story about JMB becoming frustrated with the Army, because he had some ideas about (gulp) updating the M1911 pistol, which they overruled, since the changes would make the design incompatible with existing pistols, instead approving the [mechanically identical] M1911A1 pistol, a few years later. It is alleged that this, plus his Winchester woes, are what led him to move to Belgium in his later years. The FN guys were quite happy to churn out whatever he wanted, it seems.

    I realize that these issues aren't really par with the typical image of a late-20th / early-21st century bean-counter, but JMB certainly wasn't a stranger to short-sighted managers.
    Too many people miss the silver lining because they're expecting gold.
    M. Setter
    Likes (1) :
    Peters (13th November 2016)


  9. #9
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    Spyros, your right on with your thoughts JMB. As an aside, I thought I read somewhere that his move to Belgium was due to Winchesters lack of interest in his new auto loading shotgun. That shotgun was made by FN and of course is the AUTO-5.

  10. #10
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    The Auto-5 was launched in 1905, so quite a bit earlier than JMB's move to Europe.

    The man had been familiar with the FN factory for some time before his move. FN and Colt supposedly had agreed to sell pistols he designed, Colt for the US market, FN in Europe. I say 'supposedly' because IIRC this only applied to one pistol, the FN1905/Colt 1908VP, sometimes wrongly called 'the baby Browning' (the moniker applies to a later pistol model). Other designs made by Colt and FN were outwardly similar but had significantly different internals.

    My father-in-law owns a Belgian Auto-5, made in 1923, I believe. Certainly on the heavy side by modern standards, but an amazing piece of kit nonetheless.

    If the 1911 can be said to have revolutionized service-caliber autoloading pistols, the Auto-5 is easily credited as the gun that created a whole category of long-arms, all by itself. Personally I think that as a design, it is more remarkable than the 1911.
    Too many people miss the silver lining because they're expecting gold.
    M. Setter

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