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Thread: Taurus Horrer Story

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  1. #11
    Join Date
    17th September 2010
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    Stewie, you should listen to Spyros, he knows a thing or two. I was asking in my previous post if you had some inside information re: Taurus. You made some very specific statements and I wondered if these were based on facts, or if you were just bashing because you think you got a lemon. I read in your other thread that that new Sig is having problems. Did you get that worked out?
    "Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you." --Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)

  2. #12
    Join Date
    2nd June 2004
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    Terra
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie
    Friends don't let friends buy Taurus.
    Quoted for truth.

    I would never buy a Taurus semi-auto. I did grit my teeth awhile ago and bought a Taurus Model 94 .22LR revolver, to use in teaching NRA Basic Pistol classes. To my relief (and amazement), it worked out of the box.

    So, when I saw CDNN selling off Taurus .327 Federal magnum revolvers (the same gun as the Model 94), I thought I'd take a chance. SERIOUS mistake. It wouldn't fire more than 2 shots in DA mode without locking up. In single action mode it was totally unsafe, because the cylinder wouldn't lock in place. God forbid it might fire with the cylinder not aligned to the barrel.

    The gunsmith at the range and I dove into it. Between the two of us, it took about 30 hours of frustration to figure out what the problem was and then fix it. It all came down to HORRIBLE machining on the cylinder bolt and the slot in the frame for the bolt.

    Never again.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

  3. #13
    Join Date
    3rd March 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie
    No, the sights don't have to be visibly off to shoot 3' low at 15 yards. The sights are fixed sights and thus have no windage or elevation adjustments. How would sights be "visibly" out of adjustment when shooting low? A more rational explanation is the slide or framed were machined out of tolerance? That fits with Taurus's determination to replace the gun as opposed to fixing it!
    While I would agree with you that there is no adjustment for elevation on the Taurus PT1911 but it is adjustable for windage; both the front and rear sights can be adjusted by loosening the set-screw and moving the sight right and left. Now you do realize there are two methods of target sighting one being the “six-o’clock” hold and the other the “center” hold. Different manufacturers set up their guns differently. My PT1911 is setup for center hold meaning the front sight is directly over my POA. The six-o’clock sight picture will have the POA sitting on top of the front sight. My PT came with Novak 3-dot sights and a friend of mine had his come with Heine figure 8 sights and was setup for 6 o’clock hold.

    On a 1911 the barrel is locked into the slide and only moves after the bullet has left the barrel. The sights are locked into the slide so in reality misalignment of the rails or looseness in the frame to slide fit has very little if any effect on accuracy. The only way you are going to determine the fault to be the gun or human factor is to have someone shoot it clamped in a Ransom rest and eliminate the human aspect.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    21st September 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by patriotic
    On a 1911 the barrel is locked into the slide and only moves after the bullet has left the barrel.
    That's not really true...

    But the barrel can't move enough (vertically) to account for three feet at 15 yards.

    As I already explained, if we assume that this is the gun's fault, i.e. the gun fires three feet low and one foot to the left at 15 yards, then if the gun had an adjustable rear sight, its blade would have had to be raised by ~0.45" and moved to the right by ~0.15".

    No adjustable sight exists that could do this. So, our assumption in the beginning of the previous paragraph has to be invalid...
    Too many people miss the silver lining because they're expecting gold.
    M. Setter
    Last edited by Spyros; 5th May 2013 at 08:59.


  5. #15
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    2nd May 2013
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    What's the chance it had a barrel crown issue......?
    Just thinkin'........

    DPSTX

  6. #16
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    27th December 2010
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    Just want to add my 2 cents worth of experience with Taurus customer service.

    The new gun I bought would not even chamber a round. It could not have been checked prior to leaving the factory.

    When I called their customer service department, they were very nice and assured me they would fix what ever was wrong with it and I'd have it back within three weeks. I never saw the gun again.

    Over the course of 4 months, they told me they were waiting for parts. They could not tell me when they would get another shipment. They offered a replacement but of a different model. I declined and asked for a refund. They agreed but after several weeks of waiting they failed to send a check. They kept saying it was being processed.

    I finally got fed up and wrote a letter to the Miami Dade District Attorney.

    Two days later a check arrived via Fed Ex.

    My opinion: Taurus is not a good company to deal with. They do not deserve American Dollars. Their products are poorly made and appear to have no QA program. They talk nice on the phone and promise the world, but they do not make good on their promises until legal penalties are eminent.

    JE

  7. #17
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    2nd May 2013
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    Do the math!

    If you really think Taurus is a higher or equal quality than a Kimber, your math skills fall short my friend! My Taurus 1911 too had no failures but it shot 3' low a 7 yards. If you got a Taurus to function and shoot at point of aim out of the box, good for you! You got lucky.

    I wonder what you view point will be after you deal with their customer no-service Dept. And you need to research the math behind "defective rate"!

  8. #18
    Join Date
    2nd May 2013
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    Spyros...That is faulty logic!

    Spyros! If you are saying it can't be the gun because the point of aim is farther from the point of impact than the guns sight adjustments will allow, that leaves one scratching his head? If the results are consistent for multiple shooters, are they all off by an equal degree? No I think not! You statement is the perfect logic to implicate a faulty gun! You have made the error of assuming the gun cannot be at fault and is machined correctly. The fact that Taurus, of their own accord, offered to replace the gun indicates it was machined incorrectly and could not be fixed. Why would they offer to replace a perfectly good gun?

    If a car is out of alignment farther than can be adjusted for, is it the driver or a faulty suspension?

  9. #19
    Join Date
    21st September 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie
    If the results are consistent for multiple shooters...
    Now, there's a really big 'IF'... which doesn't seem to apply in this case.

    But let's say that TWO shooters really did fire the OP's gun, and that they both experienced results of 3 feet low and 1 foot to the left at 15 yards. Let's assume that the sights are a-OK, and that the results can even be replicated in a Ransom Rest...

    So: what would have to be mechanically wrong in this gun (wrong machining, etc), to allow for 36 inches of difference one way, and 12 inches another way?

    If it's not the sights (like we already assumed), the orientation of the barrel is the only likely culprit.

    Are we agreed on this one?

    So: for a 5"-barreled 1911, the math is as follows: 5" (barrel, front to back)x 36" (vertical distance from POA)/540" (distance to target) =0.33"

    In other words, for something to be wrong with the gun's machining (barrel bushing? barrel feet? slide-to-bushing fit?) that would account for such a spectacular discrepancy, either the front or the rear of the barrel would have to be out of position by about .33 inches, vertically. To account for one foot horizontally, there must also be a .11" fault, left or right.

    Does this sound plausible, to you? Can a barrel, ill-fitted by .33", on one direction:
    a) go un-noticed, and
    b) still manage to function?

    It can't be the gun. Sorry.

    EDIT: to clarify — a too-long barrel link can a cause a gun to shoot too low. But unless the link is longer by about .3", I think we can exclude it in this case. But the same math applied to Stewie's Taurus, for example, shooting 3" low at 7 yards, would need a sight adjustment of just 0.06". That's quite plausible, either as a sight discrepancy, or a long link, or some other machining fault... or shooter error.
    Too many people miss the silver lining because they're expecting gold.
    M. Setter
    Last edited by Spyros; 27th June 2013 at 09:22.


  10. #20
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    This whole issue reminds me of an old saying and I’m not sure if I remember it correctly, so I will paraphrase, it went something like this: Figures do not lie, but those who figure do, at times, stretch the results. I know that is not exact, but I do not want to imply anyone here would purposely lie. Excellent response Spyros!

    I have also read on this forum a remark about providing supportable and or measurable facts when pointing out problems with products and manufactures; by not doing so, invalidates one’s claims and then it is only an opinion or an assumption and not a fact.

    I am in no way taking up for Taurus’ QC program or their line of products, however they have the same problems that every gun manufacture has with a few bad apples getting into the barrel and spoiling the brand for others. I have personal and recent experience with this issue and I will be forever vigilant when it comes to purchasing a Taurus, but that does not imply I will never purchase another one.

    The key is to give the manufacture the opportunity to make good and if further action is required then pursue that. Then base your future purchases on what you have learned. Just my $0.02.


    Be safe
    Dave
    Maybe not the sharpest tack in the box......but not dull!

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