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Cuba
24th December 2011, 14:26
three 1911 extractor tuning tips to eliminate FTE
Usually what breaks the extractor hook is when a "push feed" occurs while chambering a round, a push feed is when the round is chambered in front of the extractor hook and the slide slams the extractor unto the rim of the round, some times it will slam so hard that the extractor is flexed back enough to ride over the case rim, usually it is forced over by changing the recoil spring to a heavier recoil spring, which actually damages the hook in a shorter time.

Three things that cause push feeds are 1- to much extractor tension 2- the hook profile is not shaped correctly 3- the extractor is clocking.
1 -To much tension is checked by removing your slide and slipping a life round behind the extractor hook and shaking your slide, if the round stays fixed in place you either have to much tension on your extractor, or you have accumulated gun powder soot behind the extractor, to adjust remove the FPS and pull out the extractor and clean the extractor channel reinstall it and try the test again if the round still holds tight your extractor needs to be bent back to reduce the tension remove your FPS and pull your extractor 2/3 of the way out and bend it slightly to the right, reinstall it and try slipping a life round behind the hook and shake, the round should fall out, but if you slip an empty case and shake the slide it should stay fast, it's a happy medium not to much and not to little, you might have to adjust it a couple times to get it just right if you bend the extractor to the left it will increase the tension and if you bend it right it will decrease it, do not be afraid to apply force to bend the extractor cause it is made from spring steel and it takes some persuasion.
2 - the profile of the hook is not shaped correctly, it is important to open the bottom of the extractor by beveling the bottom of the hook toward the front and polishing it as smooth as possible to create a funnel shape so that when the breach face pushes the round forward the case rim is scooped smoothly behind the upper portion of the hook with out causing any hook impact, which is what causes the hook to snap off.
3 - if your FPS is lose your extractor will clock which means that it will twist clock wise and the funnel shape bottom will be ineffective and the hook will start to push feed again, to check if your extractor is clocking remove your slide and grab the tip of your extractor with a needle nose plier, try to twist it to the right if it moves at all, your extractor is clocking. The fix is to replace your firing pin stop with an oversize FPS, Evolution Gun Works (EGW) sells them for about $15.00 or Wilson Combat also sells them.
Some thing also to consider if you change your recoil spring from the stock 16lb to an 18lb you should should change out your magazine springs with wolf 11lb spring, to keep the timing in sink you need to specify to Wolf that the change of spring is for the tapered magazine spring which is the same design as the act magazine or wolf magazines, FYI this spring has a smaller top section to compress into the larger bottom and retains their flex longer.
I can testify to the longevity of a correct tuned extractor as I have over 14,000 rounds through my PT 1911 with out any extractor brakes, hope this information will help some one, good luck.

http://i900.photobucket.com/albums/ac210/Cuba1911/PT1911ModifiedFrame.jpg
Cuba

Spyros
24th December 2011, 17:19
The right and wrong ways of adjusting extractors are being discussed in the same section of the forum, as I write this... the method you describe is most definitely NOT favoured by most, it seems.

Also, 'ride over' is often called a 'pushfeed'.

Cuba
24th December 2011, 18:23
Spyro my thread is intended for those that have no idea why their extractor hooks are constantly breaking of, if you disagree with anything that I've written please be specific so that I can be educated and corrected, thanks for the correct terminology " push feed"

11 Bravo
24th December 2011, 18:46
Mr. Cuba, there is a lot in your post and I disagree with much of it, but the part about the magazine spring from Wolff is really off. The ACT Mag spring is ONLY designed to work with an ACT Mag type follower (this includes some followers from MecGar and Taurus). There is no way that spring will function correctly with other type followers. It won't properly fit the profile of the underside of other types of followers and won't exert its upward force in the correct place, which will lead to misfeeds. You will notice several types of 1911 magazine springs are offered by Wolff depending on capacity and follower type, be sure you get the one designed for your follower.

Todd_M_S
24th December 2011, 20:35
Three things that cause push feeds are 1- to much extractor tension 2- the hook profile is not shaped correctly 3- the extractor is clocking.


I believe the primary cause of push feeding is weak magazine springs, or junk magazines, or the lack of the dimple on the follower.

The items you have listed are generally associated with a FTRB caused by the round hanging up while sliding up behind the extractor.

Sincerely,

Todd S.

1944Colt
24th December 2011, 21:17
Your method of checking for proper extractor tension seems to be off. Read the sticky by others on proper extractor tensioning to see how it is at odds with your advice.

Spyros
25th December 2011, 03:04
Spyro my thread is intended for those that have no idea why their extractor hooks are constantly breaking of, if you disagree with anything that I've written please be specific so that I can be educated and corrected, thanks for the correct terminology " push feed"
This is what I had in mind:
http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=97616

niemi24s
25th December 2011, 14:41
I, for one, found nothing particularly wrong with these instructions for checking tension:
1 -To much tension is checked by removing your slide and slipping a life round behind the extractor hook and shaking your slide, if the round stays fixed in place you either have to much tension on your extractor, or you have accumulated gun powder soot behind the extractor, to adjust remove the FPS and pull out the extractor and clean the extractor channel reinstall it and try the test again if the round still holds tight your extractor needs to be bent back to reduce the tension remove your FPS and pull your extractor 2/3 of the way out and bend it slightly to the right, reinstall it and try slipping a life round behind the hook and shake, the round should fall out, but if you slip an empty case and shake the slide it should stay fast. . .I've seen them given in other places and have no doubt given them myself, simply because nothing but a loaded round and empty case are required. The only fault I can find with any of these "shake test" instructions is the severity of the shaking is not mentioned - just "shaking" or "shake".

When a live round is under the extractor, it should come loose when the slide's given a hard shaking, but remain in place when given a light to moderate shake.

When an empty case is under the extractor, it should never come loose no matter how violently the slide is shaken.

But this is the limitation of these shake tests - it's nice to say give the slide a violent, vigorous, hard, moderate, gentle or light shake - but those modifiers are all pretty iffy to me. Did a Google and document search and came up with these tension checking instructions...

From our Tech Issues section: http://www.m1911.org/technic2.htm
From Brownells: http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=10261/learn/1911_Auto_Extractor_Adjustment
From sightm1911.com: http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/tech/reliability_secrets.htm
From Wilson Combat: http://blog.wilsoncombat.com/uncategorized/checking-the-extractor-tension-on-your-1911/
From thefiringline.com: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=386404
FromYouTube: http://benjaminwhitmer.com/index.php/2010/04/testing-extractor-tension-on-a-1911/
From Kunhausen: http://s129.photobucket.com/albums/p232/niemi24s/?action=view&current=P11C250002de2.jpg
From Hallock's .45 Auto Handbook: http://s129.photobucket.com/albums/p232/niemi24s/?action=view&current=P101080003ctxt.jpg

...which include all three methods (shake test, direct rim pressure & resulting frictional sliding force). Lots of ways of doing it.

Regards

Spyros
25th December 2011, 15:26
I thought you wouldn't like this particular part of the text you quoted:
if the round still holds tight your extractor needs to be bent back to reduce the tension remove your FPS and pull your extractor 2/3 of the way out and bend it slightly to the right...

niemi24s
25th December 2011, 16:08
Didn't really notice that as I was concentrating on methods for checking - not adjusting. :o

But with the extractor 2/3 of the way out, the tip won't contact the tunnel when the aft end is pushed to the right. So there's no stress on the tip - plus the fulcrum point for making the bend is either on the middle lumps or real close to them. Much, much better than with the tip only " into the tunnel.

Cheers

Cap
25th December 2011, 22:03
But with the extractor 2/3 of the way out, the tip won't contact the tunnel when the aft end is pushed to the right.

that's the way i do it .


I know I'm a backyard wannabe armorer, but can't see making rocket science out of adjusting ext'r tension
Jigs/fixtures and scales seem so unnecessary for a such a simple uncomplicated task

I do understand the dynamics of bending in the right area, but otherwise what am i missing here??? :confused:


..L.T.A.

John
26th December 2011, 04:17
Three things that cause push feeds are 1- to much extractor tension 2- the hook profile is not shaped correctly 3- the extractor is clocking.


None of these!

Cuba
26th December 2011, 07:55
11 Bravo the reason I use the example of the Wolf magazine the ACT and Taurus is because I use strictly Taurus no follower dimple, I use the small radius firing pin stop and it slows down my slide enough not to slam the frame hard enough to jerk the last round of the magazine, but these tapered spring provide longer flex life seeing as they fold into each other with out bottoming out. I chose to use the over sprung extractor because it would probably receive the most battering. i think #2 is probably the most important, the profile of the extractor hook which I've notice that when the extractor is discussed on most forum it's not addressed, i think that the extractor hook needs to be profiled with a polished tapered bottom so as to scoop the rim of the case with the least resistance with out putting any excessive stress to the hook.

Cuba

Dave Waits
26th December 2011, 10:26
As I mentioned in the other Extractor-Tensioning thread, the problem with pulling the Extractor out 1/2 to 2/3rds of the way out and bending is not having the Extractor at 90-degrees and thus bending the tip up or down.

Cuba
26th December 2011, 10:45
Dave ,I agree with you it's very important to keep the extractor vertical, but it would take an awful lot of pressure to bend it cork screwed

CAWalter
26th December 2011, 11:19
As John has pointed out, and hasn't seemed to register, this isn't, can't be true.

Originally Posted by Cuba
Three things that cause push feeds are 1- to much extractor tension 2- the hook profile is not shaped correctly 3- the extractor is clocking.

The reason this can't be true, Cuba, is a push feed starts before any of these undesirable conditions, come into play.

CAW