Synthetic Motor Oil for the 1911

[Gammon]

I have been using Break Free for over 20 years with great results and have no real reason to change, but these threads touting the magical properties of the "wonder lubes" now on the market have piqued my interest. I recently purchased a .22 conversion kit for one of my .45s and had cycling problems. When contacted, the MFR suggested synthetic motor oil, rather than gun lube, to solve the problem, it worked BTW. I had also been studying the properties of synthetic motor oil at this time, as I had purchased a new truck and was interested in the best protection I could purchase for the motor, and synthetic seemed to be the best option. Without going into detail, synthetic motor oil seems to me to have all of the necessary properties to make it a top notch gun lube, and even the most expensive synthetic motor oil is dirt cheap compared to firearms lube.

[mayagrafix]

Wow, if this works out then I could just drop my M1911 inside a can of oil overnight, wipe it down the next day and be done with it till I shoot again!

[Pappy]

I have been using Break Free for over 20 years with great results and have no real reason to change, but these threads touting the magical properties of the "wonder lubes" now on the market have piqued my interest. I recently purchased a .22 conversion kit for one of my .45s and had cycling problems. When contacted, the MFR suggested synthetic motor oil, rather than gun lube, to solve the problem, it worked BTW. I had also been studying the properties of synthetic motor oil at this time, as I had purchased a new truck and was interested in the best protection I could purchase for the motor, and synthetic seemed to be the best option. Without going into detail, synthetic motor oil seems to me to have all of the necessary properties to make it a top notch gun lube, and even the most expensive synthetic motor oil is dirt cheap compared to firearms lube.

Hi Gammon. Sounds interesting. Are you saying Break Free didn't help your problem but synthetic motor oil did?
I realize that there is a lot of chemistry and technical issues regarding lubrication and I sometimes wonder if expensive products are just cheap bulk quantities repackaged.
Any lubrication chemists out there??? Pappy

[mayagrafix]

Pappy: youre on the right track. Take anything for industrial use, package it and then sell it for 100 times its original value. It's called Marketing. WD-40 is a great example.

[Gammon]

Yes, this is the first time Break Free didn't solve my lube problems. The problem was a close slide to frame fit in a Ciener .22 conversion kit for a .45. The problem was the viscosity of the lube; thin 5 weight synthetic allowed the slide to operate, while the thicker Break Free added enough resistance to cause the gun to fail to completely cycle. This kit was too finicky for my tastes, so I bit the bullet and bought a six inch Marvel Long Slide conversion. Big bucks ($390 with one mag) but well worth the money; I am in love. The Ciener is up for sale.

I have encountered my first problem with 5w40 synthetic in a pistol, in this case the .45 with the Marvel conversion. One of the properties of synthetic motor oil is an affinity for metal, i.e. it clings to metal more tenaciously than dino oil. I don't know if this is the source of my problem, but the synthetic I lubed the .45/22 with won't stay in the gun. I oiled the gun liberally, cleaned the exterior surfaces completely, and put it in my safe. Several days later, I removed the pistol to find it covered with oil. It seems that the synthetic inside the pistol worked its way out. I have never observed this much migration of a lube before. If this trait holds true for synthetics, they may be too messy (what a scientific term) for use in the average forearm.

[Gammon]

This isn't much of a test, but the Marvel conversion I bought was working just fine when I changed from Casrol 5-40 synthetic back to Break Free. After about 200 rounds with Break Free, the Marvel conversion had two stove pipes. The gun was then cleaned and lubed with Castrol 5-40. Two things have become apparent: (A) the pistol has now gone 400 rounds without a malfunction, and (B) it is not as oily as it was the first time I used synthetic motor oil. I think I must have over-oiled the gun the first time. Everything I have read about synthetic motor oil suggests to me that it is more than adequate for use in a firearm; do we have any expert opinions out there?

[BGregory]

Right up front I'll state that I'm not a big fan of any gun oil. Taking a look to my left, I can see at least 5 different brands, which all seem to work fine.

However, over a year ago, in one of my more bored moods I put together from th 'net one of the motor oil recipes. 20-50 synthetic motor oil, STP, and synthetic transmission fluid. We experimented in work with it and found that it clings to metal (i.e. a drop on the end of a rod) for days. As a matter of fact, we never did see it drip off and finally got told to put the experiment away.

Anyhow, with the 3 containers of this, I made enough to keep several people going in lube to this day. If you want a thinner oil, add more tranny fluid to the oil. Thicker, add more STP.

PS. The orginal quart jar still hasn't seperated back into its 3 parts in all this time.

[Gammon]

Right up front I'll state that I'm not a big fan of any gun oil. Taking a look to my left, I can see at least 5 different brands, which all seem to work fine.

However, over a year ago, in one of my more bored moods I put together from th 'net one of the motor oil recipes. 20-50 synthetic motor oil, STP, and synthetic transmission fluid. We experimented in work with it and found that it clings to metal (i.e. a drop on the end of a rod) for days. As a matter of fact, we never did see it drip off and finally got told to put the experiment away.

Anyhow, with the 3 containers of this, I made enough to keep several people going in lube to this day. If you want a thinner oil, add more tranny fluid to the oil. Thicker, add more STP.

PS. The orginal quart jar still hasn't seperated back into its 3 parts in all this time.

Are you talking about ATF or gear oil? I have some synthetic gear oil on hand which might do well added to the 5w40 Castrol Syntech. I hope some expert chimes in on the use of motor oil in a pistol. These lubes almost sound too good to be true; even the most expensve combinations of automotive products are dirt cheap when compared to the various gun lubes on the market.

[PITMASTER]

I have worked for Penzoil Quakerstate for about 2 years and I can remember when they had a household oil which in fact was motor oil, and I suppose you could have used it in a firearm.You will not be able to mix the 1540 with synthetic gear oil because gear oil is heavier.The weight of gear oil is like 80w90, and it is very thick.Maybe to thick for a firearm.In some small cars, in cold climates, oils that are heavier could keep a car from starting.They thing about gun oil is its light.It is almost like mineral oil.The reason is it will not attract dust as much.That is what they say damages a gun.

[danang]

If I may, I'll try to give a history and a formula at the same post. Years ago, the best high strength lube was Sperm whale oil. Used in the Jeep trannys ...got outlawed...then the motor companys developed ATF...high strength lube. My best Tool and diemaker friend developed " Meyer's Best Lube" for firearms. 10% STP, 40% Marvel Mystery Oil, 40% Dexron ATF. Use synthetic if you wish. Creeps. High strength. Wonderful for Stainless steel...prevents galling. Slicker than snot on a door handle. (As we used to say). Cheap. Is red. can't help that. Try it . you'll like it.

[stans]

10 + 40 + 40 = 90? Is this fuzzy math? Where is the remaining 10%?

[chul_soo]

we use motor oil in our .50 cal machine guns when they keep jamming up from the dust, dirt, and other crap they have in the air in iraq. it works 60% of the time, everytime~! no but really it works really well on the .50 cals. we've never tried it an any of our other weapons though.

[Moose63845]

A buddy of mine has atleast 10 jars/containers of sperm whale oil, it smells nasty, and is very easy to overlube and I've gotten sprayed by one of his 1911's kicking it out not fun. I like FP-10 it works good, but motor oil sounds interesting.

[Tom T Bosee]

My current favorite is military surplus LAW Lubricating Oil Weapons, Low Temperature, MIL-L-14107C-AM.2. It's made by Castrol, and somehow I ended up with a jug of the stuff. The standard name-brand gun oils tend to get gummy after time, and why should you clean a gun after storing it, only to re-oil before using?

[adirondack_jack]

As they say, the more things change, the more they remain the same. Back in the 60's, I remember my Dad, fighting to get a decent group while shooting at an old sand pit, oiling a gritty rifle action with oil fresh off the dipstick of his car :)

Ordinary 10W30 motor oil is too thick IMHO, but add some ATF, or deoderized kerosene (lamp oil), and yer about there. Straight 10 weight oil isn't bad if ya can find it. Add STP if ya want even more slipperiness.

Oh, for really CLEAN gun oil, an industrial sewing machine supply can offer light, odorless, non-staining lube oil as is used in high speed industrial sewing machines (they have a pressure oil system like a car engine) in quart bottles for under $10. A quart, if repacked in 1/2 ounce pharmacutical drip bottles (like visine comes in) would yield 64 salable packages, say at $3 each, I bet there's $100 profit right there for some intrepid GS guy. Could be marketed as "CCW non-staining gun oil" :)

[bill may]

Well, let me add something to this interesting forum. I, too, have searched for years for something that works and does not evaporate, and yet is cheap. So hold on, here it comes. At least for the barrel and rails I use (successfully) a light bead of wheel bearing grease. That's right, for those spots it works well.

On my Sigs and Glocks I place a light bead in the rail cuts, a very light coating on the outside of the entire barrel, and a small ("smidgen") on the front top of the slide, just forward where the barrel locks up when in battery, just froward of the ejection port.

Now, I fully realize that for other places this is not practical. However, for these spots I am happy. But remember, it does not take very much.

So far, after all these years, it has not failed. May sound crazy, but it works well for me in the same places on my 1911s. ;)

[Pappy]

I have used a smidge of mil-spec rifle grease in the barrel lugs of my Kimber. However it does tend to migrate after a shooting session. It's amber in color and easy to spot as it travels onto the barrel hood.
Gammon mentioned a 5-40 synthetic motor oil. I believe I'll give that a try...Pappy

[Gammon]

Well, let me add something to this interesting forum. I, too, have searched for years for something that works and does not evaporate, and yet is cheap. So hold on, here it comes. At least for the barrel and rails I use (successfully) a light bead of wheel bearing grease. That's right, for those spots it works well.

On my Sigs and Glocks I place a light bead in the rail cuts, a very light coating on the outside of the entire barrel, and a small ("smidgen") on the front top of the slide, just forward where the barrel locks up when in battery, just froward of the ejection port.

Now, I fully realize that for other places this is not practical. However, for these spots I am happy. But remember, it does not take very much.

So far, after all these years, it has not failed. May sound crazy, but it works well for me in the same places on my 1911s. ;)


Glocks come from the factory with a grease-type lubricant on the frame tabs suspiciously like "copper coat" anti-seize compound. I have tried it (copper coat) on my Glocks and it seems to work, but is quite messy if you let any get on any part of the pistol except the frame tabs and inner part of the slide. This stuff may work, but is a PITA to remove from any part of the pistol it doesn't belong. I think some form of grease would be less trouble.
Speaking of grease; I have used it when shooting in the southwest desert where fine, wind blown sand is a problem. This sand will mix with liquid lubrcants to form a nasty grinding compound in the pistol. The solution is to shoot the pistol dry with only a dab of grease on the slide rails and barrel lugs. In this case no lube is better than one which will attract the fine sand. I don't use grease for my normal lubrication because liquid is easier to apply and you will still need a liquid for the internal parts of the receiver, again because it is easier to apply. This doesn't mean I think liquids are more effective than grease, just a little more convenient to use.
As far as viscosity is concerned, my observations and some recommendations from a MFR (Ciener) would indicate that 5wt synthetic (in my case 5-40 Castrol Syntech) is considerably thinner than the "Break Free" that I have been using; so thin that I would not be comfortable with anything thinner. At this point I would probably opt for a slightly thicker oil (10 wt synthetic) if I were to make any change at all. Adding some form of performance enhancer (STP?) to the 5 wt might also be a possibility. At this point, however, I would love to hear from a critic who can tell me why this synthetic won't work. Things are working too well and the synthetic is dirt cheap compared to the competition; it all seems a little too good to be true.

[adirondack_jack]

On triggers and such i like real light oil, perhaps because I live where it gets real cold, and there is no joy in a heavy lubed trigger when it is zero outside.

For slides (and rotating parts like base pins on revolvers, as well as hammer faces, etc, a bead of good old Tetra gun grease down the channels then wiped off with a folded paper towel is plenty. For very close tolerance sliding or rotating surfaces, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a thin synthetic oil. The military and airlines use very thin, watery synthetic in jet engines which run very hot and turn at 100,000 rpms and more. I fail to see how a lowly pistol needs better IF the sliding surfaces are very smooth and well fitted. if they are not, as is oten the case with cast parts etc, then a gob of grease will at least keep it from getting sloppier when high spots wear.

[BGregory]

Are you talking about ATF or gear oil?Sorry it took so long to get back on this question. Quaker State Synthetic ATF is what I used. I started with the motor oil and added the STP to make it thicker and the ATF to make it thinner, until I ended up with what I wanted.
So, in theory, you could make thinner or thicker lubes to suit you purpose for either the waether or the gun.

[kid]

what a STP oil? the one that stops oil burning in old cars and improves viscosity?

[Gammon]

Sorry it took so long to get back on this question. Quaker State Synthetic ATF is what I used. I started with the motor oil and added the STP to make it thicker and the ATF to make it thinner, until I ended up with what I wanted.
So, in theory, you could make thinner or thicker lubes to suit you purpose for either the waether or the gun.
Thanks, you've given me a great place to start experimenting; I think a mix of ATF and synthetic oil will be a good start.

[BGregory]

what a STP oil? the one that stops oil burning in old cars and improves viscosity?STP Engine Oil Treatment. It's thick stuff, more than likely parafin. It's what all the backyard mechanics, when I was a youngster, 40 or so years ago use to use to cure just about anything that was wrong with a car engine. Sometimes whith success. ;)

[kid]

Tnx...:D...Think gonna make my gun Guinea Pig Again :dead_hors ...The Mobil-1 + STP + ATF Experiment :D HUNG HEI FAT CHOI :D

[fiber optic]

Any update on your various concoctions guys? I think I might start with a synthetic motor oil and then mix in the ATF and STP as needed.

[bill may]

OK boys and girls. I've read, and contributed some< on this interested topic. Have we come to some kind of consensus as to what works best? Do we have a formula for some type gun lubricant? Better yet, can we market it and split the profits and retire to Gunsite where all we do is shoot all day and bar-b-que and talk guns all night? I volunteer to be in charge of marketing!

[Hawkmoon]

Skip the STP.

STP has ZERO lubrication quality. It is not a lubricant, it is an oil viscosity index improver. Which means if you choose a grade of synthetic motor oil and dump that stuff in ... it'll be thicker, but in reality you'll have no idea what the actual viscosity is. You'll do better with a good synthetic oil of a known viscosity and then mixing in other stuff to aid lubricity.

[Gammon]

I have six formulas to work with but few results because all my shooting is with a 22LR Marvel conversion and an AR with a 22LR conversion which I haven't lubed yet.
This is extremely unscientific but preliminary results with the Marvel unit seems to favor 5w40 Castrol over a mix of 5w40 and 15% ATF. I have had stove pipes with all lubes except straight 5w40.
The formulas are:

1. 85% 5w40 Castrol Syntech, 15% Mobil 1 ATF
2. 50% 5w40, 25% 75w synthetic gear oil, 25% ATF
3. Straight 5W40
4. 20w50 Royal Purple Synthetic
5. 50% 20w50 Royal Purple, 30% Synthetic gear oil, 15% ATF
6. 50% 20w50, 50% 75w gear oil.

#1 and #3 are light oils for guns that need minimal resistance to cycle.
#2 and #4 are an attempt to duplicate the viscosity of conventional gun oil, in my case "Break Free".
#5 and #6 are an attempt at a higher viscosity lube for the slide of a center fire pistol, something like Brian Enos' "Slide Glide" (I'm sure his stuff is MUCH better).

All of the ingredients are synthetic. Gear oil was added to increase viscosity. ATF was added for its detergent properties. Motor oil has detergent additives, but I'm not sure they will work in a pistol as they are intended to remove or counter the by products of combustion. The detergents in ATF fluid are intended to keep a transmission clean and may work in a pistol. In any case most of the formulas will have the benefit of both types of detergents.
I didn't add any wonder additives because I didn't have any on hand and they are ridiculously expensive. I keep reading that modern motor oil, synthetics in particular, are so well formulated that they need no additives so I didn't add any to these gun lubes. This is great: six lubes to test and all I have had to buy is one quart of Mobil 1 ATF for $6.99. The rest of the stuff was laying around my shop.

[mayagrafix]

Well for starters, we can all agree that alternative lube materials (read as: other oils for pistols) have not as of yet caused any damage to those who have tried them. So that is one good thing.

[Pappy]

Last weekend I had cleaned my Kimber Eclipse and lubed the slide rails and barrel lugs with straight Castrol Syntec 20W-50. Today I went a'shootin. Temp in the 60s. Ran perfect and I quit at 80 rounds. No problems and very little oil migration.
Tomorrow I'll field strip and check coverage.
So far I'm pleased and will continue to use it.
I don't see a need to change viscosity and will use it straight...Pappy

[Hawkmoon]

Where do you find Castrol 20W50? I went to an Advance Auto store today looking, and the best I could find was 5W50 (which happens to be what I use in my older Jeeps anyway, so if it's not right for the guns I can still use it for its intended purpose). But I don't believe I have ever seen a Castrol synthetic in 20W50.

I have seen Mobil-1 in 15W50, but I couldn't find any last night or today when I actually went looking for it.

[Pappy]

Where do you find Castrol 20W50? I went to an Advance Auto store today looking, and the best I could find was 5W50 (which happens to be what I use in my older Jeeps anyway, so if it's not right for the guns I can still use it for its intended purpose). But I don't believe I have ever seen a Castrol synthetic in 20W50.

I have seen Mobil-1 in 15W50, but I couldn't find any last night or today when I actually went looking for it.

Hi Hawk.
Found it at my local Wally-World.
Castrol Syntec SAE 20W-50 full synthetic motor oil.
Other viscosity/weights were also available. I just shook them and chose what I considered to be the correct "slosh" for 1911 frame/slide lube.
So far I'm satisfied and will continue to use it until.......Well, time will tell.
BTW, It was a few pennies under $5 w/tax. Good luck...Pappy

[Gammon]

More unscientific observations and conclusions. I am giving up on synthetic gear oil as a viscosty enhancer. I don't like the smell. Also, when lubing the slide of one of my 1911s, I got some on the exterior and it was a pain to remove. This also deposited some on my fingers which was also a pain to remove. The other oils I have tested didn't have these annoying tendencies.

[lightnin]

i'm wondering about using hi temp moly wheel bearing grease on my rails (aluminum frame). is this a bad idea?

for you guys that use grease, do you also use an oil? if so, does the grease wash out?

a couple of points:

synthetic lubes do creep pretty bad, sometimes right past oil seals and gaskets. i run synthetic in all my cars, and even on a tight fresh motor you can expect some seepage and drippyness. but the quality and protection you get is well worth the spotted driveway.

on that topic, royal purple is freaking awesome! i worked with a friend on a full size sprint car for a while. we ran royal purple gear oil in the rear end. the rear was a quick-change unit ad the guts took a BAD pounding from 630+ horsepower and hours of abuse every weekend. at the end of a season, the internals looked amazing. that stuff is probably 200% more effective than standard gear oil. the only reason why we didnt run it in the engine was cost, we changed that oil before it really got dirty and couldn't afford 20+ quarts of royal purple a weekend (it's pricey).

for sub-10W check out either your local napa, APC or Ford dealerships. Ford contracted valvoline or some more big companies to produce 5W20, it's very light and is semi synthetic if memory serves correctly.

if you have trouble finding 20W50, check out motorcycle oil (usually at least 20 weight). it's thicker, most motorcycles have a split crankcase at the least, and the thicker oil tends to stay in the engine a little longer than thinner weights.

i don't know of any straight 10 weight oil, unless you ran straight ATF. ATF has a 10 weight oil in it, that's it's only lubricating property as far as i know. that would get a little stinky, i cant stand the smell of hot ATF. blah.

[ArmedsouthernEr]

For the people who are actually using these mixes in your guns.Do you like It?
Does it not run out and saturate your gun case or holster?I have been using the wilson combat oil and grease.it stays where you put it and doesnt evaporate.Can the same be said for these mixes you guys are making.Might try it but i dont know Im a skeptic of these experiments.

[Gammon]

For the people who are actually using these mixes in your guns.Do you like It?
Does it not run out and saturate your gun case or holster?I have been using the wilson combat oil and grease.it stays where you put it and doesnt evaporate.Can the same be said for these mixes you guys are making.Might try it but i dont know Im a skeptic of these experiments.

The 5w40 I am using was a little messy at first, but I over lubed the gun. With the proper amount of lube and a quick wipe off, this oil seems no messier than any other oil of this light viscosity. The 20w50 is very similar to conventional gun oils in this respect.

[Pappy]

20W-50 seems to me to be the perfect viscosity. My Kimber's slide/frame /barrel all move together just as slick as can be. A little more than 100 rounds through it now. No problems.
I also used it on a Winchester M1890 .22 short pump (Mfg 1893). Really smooths up the action.I will stay with it till I see a disadvantage......Pappy

[Gammon]

i'm wondering about using hi temp moly wheel bearing grease on my rails (aluminum frame). is this a bad idea?

for you guys that use grease, do you also use an oil? if so, does the grease wash out?

a couple of points:

synthetic lubes do creep pretty bad, sometimes right past oil seals and gaskets. i run synthetic in all my cars, and even on a tight fresh motor you can expect some seepage and drippyness. but the quality and protection you get is well worth the spotted driveway.

on that topic, royal purple is freaking awesome! i worked with a friend on a full size sprint car for a while. we ran royal purple gear oil in the rear end. the rear was a quick-change unit ad the guts took a BAD pounding from 630+ horsepower and hours of abuse every weekend. at the end of a season, the internals looked amazing. that stuff is probably 200% more effective than standard gear oil. the only reason why we didnt run it in the engine was cost, we changed that oil before it really got dirty and couldn't afford 20+ quarts of royal purple a weekend (it's pricey).

for sub-10W check out either your local napa, APC or Ford dealerships. Ford contracted valvoline or some more big companies to produce 5W20, it's very light and is semi synthetic if memory serves correctly.

if you have trouble finding 20W50, check out motorcycle oil (usually at least 20 weight). it's thicker, most motorcycles have a split crankcase at the least, and the thicker oil tends to stay in the engine a little longer than thinner weights.

i don't know of any straight 10 weight oil, unless you ran straight ATF. ATF has a 10 weight oil in it, that's it's only lubricating property as far as i know. that would get a little stinky, i cant stand the smell of hot ATF. blah.

Grease is a good lubricant for the frame rails. Friends of mine spent a lot of time and effort formulating their own "super gun grease" with all sorts of exotic components. I wish I could remember some of the formulae. I never went that route because the liquid lube (Break Free) that I was using seemed to be the perfect all around lube, and I was too lazy to use two different lubes. Grease is popular today; check out Brian Enos' "Slide Glide".

[The Virginian]

I see no downside to using motor oil as a lubricant other than the smell.

[Pappy]

I see no downside to using motor oil as a lubricant other than the smell.

Hi Virginian. I use Castrol Syntec SAE 20W-50 full synthetic motor oil. It does have a very very slight sweet smell. On my Kimber for about 150 rounds and still in place. So far so good...Pappy

[The Virginian]

I know the stuff works great, it is just the smell that I personally don't care for, but have used from time to time anyway.

[Gammon]

What smell? The synthetic I'm using (Castrol) doesn't smell any worse than the gun oils I've been using; a little different, but no worse. I guess its just a matter of taste, or smell?

[kid]

...STRONGLY SECONDED...FS motor oils smell just fine, not offensive in any manner...

[Pappy]

What smell? The synthetic I'm using (Castrol) doesn't smell any worse than the gun oils I've been using; a little different, but no worse. I guess its just a matter of taste, or smell?

Hey Gammon, have you tried straight 20W-50 yet? If so, what do you think? I'm using it now with no drawbacks that I can see. About 150 rounds and the oil is still there acting like a gun oil should...Pappy

[fiber optic]

OK, this is just sick. I had a dream last night that I found a quart of 20W-50 synthetic in my garage. 1.) That's not a weight I use in any of my vehicles and 2.) I've never bought synthetic. That means I've gotta try it out!

[Gammon]

Hey Gammon, have you tried straight 20W-50 yet? If so, what do you think? I'm using it now with no drawbacks that I can see. About 150 rounds and the oil is still there acting like a gun oil should...Pappy

Yes I have. As you said, it is about the same viscosity as the gun oils I have been using. It passed the sniff test; I don't mind the smell at all. Too early to make any observations as most of my shooting has been .22 with a conversion on my AR and one on a 1911. The 5-40 Castrol synthetic is working great on the 1911/22 and the 20w50 (Royal Purple) is working well in the AR. The AR had been functioning flawlessly, so the synthetic has produced no observable results. The AR seems no dirtier than it got with "Break Free" and it has gone several thousand rounds without cleaning.
I have two guinea pigs almost ready to go: a 1911 in 9mm and an IPSC race gun in 9x23. Both guns should be completed within two months and I intend to oil them with 20-50 synthetic exclusively.
An additive might be interesting, but the only stuff I have heard suggested is moly which is awfully expensive. The "wonder lubes" at the auto parts store were also far too expensive. My purpose in this experiment isn't just to produce a reliable gun lube; I want it cheap. If 20-50 works I will have a lifetime supply. All I have to do is use the left overs from my motorcycle oil changes.
Things should get interesting in the next few months as the guinea pigs will be ready and I should be able to put about 500 rounds (minimum) through one or the other each week. The race gun should be particularly interesting as I intend to shoot it "in the white" for the first season. What better way to test a lube than on bare, unplated metal?

[mayagrafix]

My approach is more exotic. I have a bucket of ATF in which I "store" my .45 (previously removing the stocks). The smell goes away in ten or so minutes.

When I want to shoot, I take it out, let it drip for a while, and use till dry. Then I dip back into the bucket of oil.

Granted, if I was going to go on a long time in the field, then I would use some long lasting grease such as 'butter, but for a morning of target practice this works fine.

For home defense I have a S$W short .38 special at hand loaded and ready and a nasty german sheppard named Rommel who is more than willing to byte anyone folish enough to break into the property. :)

[kid]

...My extra mags are currently hibernating in a gallon of ATF...

[Gammon]

My approach is more exotic. I have a bucket of ATF in which I "store" my .45 (previously removing the stocks). The smell goes away in ten or so minutes.

When I want to shoot, I take it out, let it drip for a while, and use till dry. Then I dip back into the bucket of oil.

Granted, if I was going to go on a long time in the field, then I would use some long lasting grease such as 'butter, but for a morning of target practice this works fine.

For home defense I have a S$W short .38 special at hand loaded and ready and a nasty german sheppard named Rommel who is more than willing to byte anyone folish enough to break into the property. :)

How do you store your ammo, in KY jelly?

[Pappy]

How do you store your ammo, in KY jelly?

HA! HA! HA! HA! Man that one made me snort! If I had been drinking soda pop, it would have shot out of my nose....Pappy

[BGregory]

The original synthetic motor oil recipe is here:

http://www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm

As I was bopping about today, I picked up a quart of Royal Purple (5W-30). Since I can't seem to leave well enough alone, I started mixing things in with it. What I came up with is this:

100 ml STP Oil Treatment
100 ml Royal Purple (5W-30) Motor Oil
200 ml Marvel Mystery Oil
100 ml Quaker State Synthetic ATF

As soon as the wind and snow dies down around here, I start shooting using just that and report back.

I've have good luck with the original recipe and don't see why this wouldn't work as well.

[CWPINST]

FWIW, Castrol SynTec is not a true synthetic oil. It is an ultra refined hydrocracked dino oil whose performance is similar to true synthetics (PAO and Diester oil). When SynTec was introduced Mobil sued Castrol and lost in court. The court ruled that the term "synthetic" is a marketing term not a technical term. As soon as Mobil lost the court battle, they quit making true synthetic oil and started making Mobil-1 using the same process as SynTec because it was more economical.

Either is great stuff, just not a "true" synthetic.

[Gammon]

The original synthetic motor oil recipe is here:

http://www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm

As I was bopping about today, I picked up a quart of Royal Purple (5W-30). Since I can't seem to leave well enough alone, I started mixing things in with it. What I came up with is this:

100 ml STP Oil Treatment
100 ml Royal Purple (5W-30) Motor Oil
200 ml Marvel Mystery Oil
100 ml Quaker State Synthetic ATF

As soon as the wind and snow dies down around here, I start shooting using just that and report back.

Now you've gone and done it! I forgot about the can of Marvel on the top shelf in my shop. Now I'll have to mix up some more lubes. Marvel sounds like a great additive.

I've have good luck with the original recipe and don't see why this wouldn't work as well.
I messed up another post, sorry.

[Gammon]

Time for another non-scientific report. Although my DPMS 22LR AR upper is extremely reliable, it has occasionally malfunctioned in the past. My records indicate that it has gone 3000 rounds without a cleaning and the only malfunctions were operator error. The unit has an operating rod like a real AR which operates the bolt. To chamber a round, you pull the "T" handle to the rear and release it. The handle must then be pushed further forward until it locks in place; failure to do so will result in a feeding MF. The only MFs I have experienced in the last 3000 rounds occured when I forgot to lock the handle in place. During this period I have been using 20w50 synthetic exclusively.
The only downside so far is that the oil does tend to migrate, but this is solved by a quick wipe with a cloth, sometime after the initial lubing. I guess the results would indicate that the 20w50 works as well as gun oil.

[Hawkmoon]

As I was bopping about today, I picked up a quart of Royal Purple (5W-30). Since I can't seem to leave well enough alone, I started mixing things in with it. What I came up with is this:

100 ml STP Oil Treatment
100 ml Royal Purple (5W-30) Motor Oil
200 ml Marvel Mystery Oil
100 ml Quaker State Synthetic ATF
The problem is that STP is nothing but a viscosity index improver -- which means all it does is change your 5W30 oil into something more like 20W50. STP itself has zero lubricity -- conclusively proven in a drag racing car back when I was active in racing in another lifetime.

[Gammon]

Too bad. I was thinking about trying some STP as it is one of the few cheap additives on the market. You also reminded me of a friend who was racing an old "Y" block ford in quarter mile oval competition many years ago. The oil pressure was dropping, so he added a can of STP and then spun a couple of main bearings. You can't say for sure that the STP caused the problem, but I lost a lot of faith in it.
What we could use is some moly type additives, or perhaps the PTFEs that are used in "Break Free", whatever they are. Does anyone know of a CHEAP source for these miracle products? I love scientific research.

[Hawkmoon]

I buy moly lube products here. Not "cheap," but I don't think you'll find them cheap. At least he sells in small packages. The source I found in Atlanta only sells in 5 gallon pails -- for a price that'll knock your socks off.

http://www.mrmoly.com/

The nice thing about the moly additive is that a little will go a long way when you're mixing up a batch of gun lube. I would skip the auto tranny version. He says that doesn't provide the "plating" action, and in a firearm it's the plating action that I would be using the moly for.

[SheepDog]

Freezing Weather is one area during this great discussion I have not heard addressed! I started down this same path a while ago and set samples in my deep freezer to test them for viscosity at cold temps.

The Rotella Synthetic 5w-40 that I have decided to use did thicken up a little in the subzero temps I had it at, but still seemed viscose enough to work well.

I don’t seem to have the migration problems several have mentioned but I use a needle oilier to apply a very limited amount right where it should be.

Thanks for all the input this is one thread that I have enjoyed reading! I would be interesting to learn how the different mixes stand up to the cold.

[BGregory]

The problem is that STP is nothing but a viscosity index improver -- which means all it does is change your 5W30 oil into something more like 20W50. STP itself has zero lubricity -- conclusively proven in a drag racing car back when I was active in racing in another lifetime.100% correct and as I stated in a previous post, it is only added to thicken the mix back to what I like.

[BGregory]

What we could use is some moly type additives...

Smooth-Kote from Sentry Solutions or possibly their Tuff-Glide. I'm not sure how well that would stay in solution, since most of the stuff needs to be shaken before used.

[Hawkmoon]

I like the moly stuff, but I don't trust the teflon products. I know they gum up the inside of an automobile engine, so I would have to assume they would perform similarly on a firearm.

[BGregory]

Gammon,

McLube MoS2 - 500
Synthetic oil dispersion of MoS2 which leaves no carbon or resinous deposits, excellent high temperature lubricant for conveyor oven chains, sliding surfaces and bearings.

Has PFTE in it.

[BGregory]

Also, the point of adding ATF to Synthetic Motor Oil has been brought up. I believe the person who "cooked-up" the original recipe was trying to improve the "pour point" of the motor oil.

My 2 cents and I don't really know for sure...

[Gammon]

I think syntheic is OK on its own as far as the pour point is concerned; perhaps ATF is unnecessary? I'm now looking for the cheapest way to add moly to the mix. I am also beginning to think that additives which enhance the detergent function of the oil may be unnesessary. I am leaning towards a couple of grades of synthetic (5w50 and 20w50) with a moly additive for increased protection and decreased friction.

[Gammon]

Just found an on-line source for moly powder at $34.50 a pound. The size of the particles is listed at 1.5 um. Does anyone know what a um is?

[Hawkmoon]

Micron?

Millimicron?

[BGregory]

The symbol for a micron is μm. Also called a micrometer.

The particles in the moly powder you found are 1.5 μm.

A grain of salt is about 60 μm.

[BGregory]

Some of the synthetics may already have moly in them. You'd probably need to find an MSDS sheet for the brand you are using and hope they don't just list the additives as proprietary.

The moly probably won't go into suspension, meaning that you'd have to shake your mix before each application.

Sentry Solutions uses Odorless Mineral Spirits as the carrier for their moly based products. It has to be shaken and stirred before applying on a clean surface; they recommend cleaning with Acetone. After applying, the Mineral Spirits evaporate leaving a moly coating.

[Hawkmoon]

Mr. Moly states that their products won't settle out. Of course, that's when used in an automobile engine, where the oil recirculates, but the oil also sits when the engine isn't running. I don't know what they use as a carrier for the moly, but I'm pretty certain it isn't mineral spirits.

I think moly powder of 1.5 microns is so small and light that there isn't enough mass to cause it to settle out of suspension in a liquid as viscous as motor oil.

[BGregory]

Mr. Moly Oil Supplement looks like it has some promise. Just wondering how thick the stuff is?

[Gammon]

Thanks, guys. I'm a little confused as to moly particle size and use. I found some 1.5 micron (um) for sale for $34.50 per lb. Other MFRs show the following sizes and applications:

Firearm lubricating powder sub micron particles $6.50 for 3 grams, wow!
"Technical Fine" for bullet treatment 3 to 6 um
Mr. Moly engine treatment uses .5 um

Is the 1.5 um size too large for lubrication use as an additive to 20w50 synthetic motor oil?

[brickeyee]

1.5 micron is about 59 micro-inches. It is fine for a firearm.
An even finer grade is used in various applications to try and ensure the particles stay in suspension. MoS2 does not 'dissolve' in the carrier, but remains as particles.
Use will further reduce the size of the particles as they break up between the mating surfaces. At the same tim e moly 'sticks' to the metal at an atomic level.

[BGregory]

Ordered some items for Mr. Moly's web site yesterday. Should be here this week.

[Hawkmoon]

Ordered some items for Mr. Moly's web site yesterday. Should be here this week.
Good choice, I think. I have been running that stuff in my Jeep's manual tranmission for over ten years. Mine has a transmission that is reputed to be weak and failure-prone. I am at 253,000+ miles and the tranny is like new.

I'm going to mix up a batch of Castrol Syntec and Mr. Moly for use as gun oil. I finally found ONE quart of 20W50 at Pep Boys over the weekend.

[fiber optic]

I got some 15W50 Mobil 1 at O'Reilly's last week. Seems to be working out just fine so far.

[Pappy]

I'm going to mix up a batch of Castrol Syntec and Mr. Moly for use as gun oil. I finally found ONE quart of 20W50 at Pep Boys over the weekend.

Please keep us informed. I now have about 200 rounds fired and the straight 20W-50 is still there and oily. So far no problems. Works just like the BreakFree I've been using...Pappy

P.S. Been using a small bottle (BreakFree) very sparingly for about 15 years and almost counting every drop. Now I slobber it on knife blade hinge points etc. since I have found a cheap replacement. Now I am not cheap, but why spend big bucks when something for pennies will do as well??

[BGregory]

Good choice, I think.I ordered the tranny fluid additive and I'm debating whether or not to add it to the slop I already have mixed or start over. :confused:

Probably I'll just add it to what I already have mixed. If that doesn't work out well - then I have plently of the "base" materials to start over fresh... ;)

The second thing I ordered was 2 ounces of the anti-scuff paste. Maybe it will work out well for the rails (?). The stuff is supposedly 40% moly by weight.

[Hawkmoon]

I am not familiar with the anti-scuff paste. I think it's a newer product, so I'll be interested in your opinion of it.

I use a very sparing application of Lubri-Plate on the rails before assembly, and then after assembly I put a couple or three drops of oil into each rail. Once I add moly to the oil I think I'll have top-notch lubrication along the rails.

[ADaughen]

My car runs on 5w20 synthetic oil. Think that would work?

My current gun oil evaporates too fast (within a week).

[Gammon]

Good choice, I think. I have been running that stuff in my Jeep's manual tranmission for over ten years. Mine has a transmission that is reputed to be weak and failure-prone. I am at 253,000+ miles and the tranny is like new.

I'm going to mix up a batch of Castrol Syntec and Mr. Moly for use as gun oil. I finally found ONE quart of 20W50 at Pep Boys over the weekend.

If your having trouble locating 20w50 synthetic, try a motorcycle dealer, but avoid Harley shops their prices are a little steep.

[Gammon]

My car runs on 5w20 synthetic oil. Think that would work?

My current gun oil evaporates too fast (within a week).

I am using 5w40 in a Marvel .22 LR conversion because it is a little finicky, and 20w50 in my DPMS AR 22LR conversion and a few of my 1911s. I prefer the 20w50 because it seems to be the same viscosity as the "Break Free" I have been using.
The 5w20 should work, but I'm not sure if the 20w50 will offer more protection due to its higher viscosity.

[Gammon]

Thanks for the feed back on particle size, I think I'm going to spring for a pound of the 1.5 um stuff. It looks like a bargain compared to some of the other sources I have checked out.

[BGregory]

Anyhow, as I've been reading about this stuff, I've found out that there are synthethic oils (Amsoil is one) and "semi"-synthetics (probably the majority even with the "synthetic" label).

It would be kind of interesting to know which ones are which. I did a quick search and didn't come up with a listing.

[Hawkmoon]

"Semi-synthetic" could refer to the oils that are a blend of synthetic and conventional, or could refer to the way the synthetic is made.

The original Mobil-1 was a synthetic oil that was created in a laboratory. Dunno how it was made, but it did not begin with crude oil pumped out of the ground. Then some other companies (I think Castrol, but not certain of that) discovered that by chemically modifying conventional oil, they could have a product with all the same properties of synthetic but for lower cost.

Mobil sued to stop these products from being sold as synthetic. Because these products met all the standards established by whoever sets the standards for such products (SAE, perhaps, or API?), Mobil lost the suit. Mobil thereupon announced a "new and improved" formulation, which was in fact a change to doing what the other guys were doing and did not represent an "improvement" at all. It allowed them to sell a less expensive product for the same price, thereby increasing their profit margin. Amsoil may still be a genuine synthetic rather than a modified petroleum product.

I use Castrol Syntec with no hesitation whatsoever. I will not touch the "blends." IMHO those are pure marketing hype. You pay almost as much as for fully synthetic, and derive virtually none of the benefots.

[BGregory]

Well, as promised, here's what happened at the range today (Wednesday) using the lube I mixed up (see earlier post this forum).

I just got a Springfield 1911-A1 back from Robar about a week or so ago. The slide/frame fit had been tight on this pistol and when it came back, it was even tighter (as expected).

This Monday I decided to replace all the springs in it (except the plunger spring) and after finishing that lightly lubed it.

I didn't have much time today for an extended session, since I was also checking out an S&W Model 22 I just got.

The Springer has a Roguard slide and NP3 finished frame. I'm running a Wolff 16# variable recoil spring and a Wilson Shok Buff in it.

The first 33 rounds went without a hiccup, then I noticed the pin used to stake the front sight on was working loose. I pushed that back in between rounds 35 and 36 and didn't quite seat the next mag (Tuner's favorites 7-rounders with the dimple) and got a FTF from slide lock. I gently pushed the back of the slide and it went into battery. After that mag the pin started working loose again so I removed it since it was annoying. Continued on to round 100 without any further incidents. The ammo was Wally*World Winchester 230 grain ball. OAT was 38 +/- 2°F.

Back at the ranch, I stripped the pistol and found that there was still lube in all the places that I had applied it - it didn't migrate - and the spots lubed wiped off with a rag.

So, although 100 rounds is not much of a test, the only change between this year's batch and last year's was the motor oil (Royal Purple this time out) and I was happy with the first stuff I mixed up. So, I guess I have a winner here.

[Gammon]

Just got my pound of Super Fine moly powder (1.5um) and mixed up a test batch. I added a small amount of moly to a 1 oz squeeze bottle full of 20w50 synthetic and was about to add some more when I noticed that the first bit was still sitting on the surface of the oil in the bottle. Rather than add to the congestion at the mouth of the bottle, I gave it several shakes to mix up the moly. Good idea, because the small amount of moly I added turned the oil in the bottle completely black. The stuff dispersed completely with about a dozen shakes and, after 12 hours is still in suspension, there is no sediment at the bottom of the bottle. The first mix was strictly seat of the pants; no measuring. I have made up several more 1 oz batches and have found that 3 grains of moly will turn the oil in the bottle completely black. This indicates to me, the non-scientist, that I am getting complete dispersal of the moly in an amount that should be effective.
The only test I have performed so far was extermely subjective. I took a S&W 4516-1 (45 ACP) out of the safe and examined it to find that it was clean and had visible amounts of oil (probably "Break Free") on the barrel, slide, and frame. I cycled the pistol several times to get a feel for the amount of force necessary to perform this operation. I then added the "Super" oil to the barrel, slide rails, and frame and proceeded to cycle the pistol. I swear the pistol was easier to cycle with the moly-enhanced oil.
Obviously this "test" means little. What is important is that the moly can be had for very reasonable prices and has a reputation for reducing friction and metal to metal wear. My little "experiment" has shown that it can easily be mixed with oil to perhaps make the ideal gun lube. OK, at least this little experiment shows that moly is easy to mix with oil.

Expense to date:

Oil is free as I am still using left-overs
1 qt synthetic ATF $6.99 and I don't think I'm going to use it
because its not necessary with synthetic motor oil
6 1oz squeeze bottles $9.00 from Brownells
1lb Super Fine moly powder $44.00 with shipping

The price of the moly, at $44.00 lb, would seem to violate my intentions to make this experiment "cheap," but in the long run I think the pound of moly will prove to be a deal. At three grains per ounce, one pound of moly powder will make 18 gallons of gun oil, and the synthetic oil used in the mix is quite cheap compared to gun oil. Remenber, "Break Free" goes for $5.99 per 4 oz bottle.
I must also defend my purchase of the pound of moly because I intend to do some experimenting with moly coated hand gun bullets with a new barrel which I intend to break in with moly coated bullets with the intention of coating the bore for longer barrel life and less leading.
For those of you who don't want to spend $44.00 on a pound of moly, Lyman sells six ounces of "Superfine" grade powder for $18.25. This grade works well as a gun lube additive and also for coating bullets. Finer moly is available (.5 um), but I don't think it is necessary for gun lube and the price is prohibitive.
I really think we are on to something here. Moly is supposed to be superior to the PTFEs used in "Break Free" and mixes much more easily with oil; no shaking before use.

[BGregory]

Glad to see that the moly powder went into suspension for you Gammon.

UPS dropped off the stuff I ordered from Mr. Moly today.

The Auto Tranny Supplement has the consistency of honey and I added 100 ml to the mix of stuff I had already made.

The Anti-Scuff Paste is a dark grey and looks like it would work well on things like rails and possibly the connector in a Glock.

[Gammon]

Glad to see that the moly powder went into suspension for you Gammon.

UPS dropped off the stuff I ordered from Mr. Moly today.

The Auto Tranny Supplement has the consistency of honey and I added 100 ml to the mix of stuff I had already made.

The Anti-Scuff Paste is a dark grey and looks like it would work well on things like rails and possibly the connector in a Glock.

I was real interested in the Mr. Moly products. Iwas tempted to buy the engine treatment and save a little for my guns. I still may.

[Gammon]

More results:

The original mix of 3gr moly per oz. is too much of a good thing. I have noticed some sedimentation which, I believe, is the result of too much moly in the mix. I have used the original 3gr mix and a 1.5gr version with good results, but I have found that .5gr of moly will disperse in one oz. of 20w50 oil to render it almost as black as the 3gr mix. Again, this is far from scientific, but I think that any more than .5gr of moly per oz. may be a waste. I will be using the .5/oz mix in the future.
If this .5/oz. mix works, one $44 pound of moly can make 109 gallons of super gun oil.

[Gammon]

I am backing off on using additives other than moly at this point. Too many variables in the experiment will make it impossible to draw any meaningful conclusions. Also, most of the recipes I have seen for home brewed gun oil predate synthetics by several years, and may not be necessary as synthetic oil may already provide the needed protection. For now, I am willing to use synthetics and moly exclusively. Time will tell.

[Rotorflyr]

Can't say as I have much to add to this thread, but will be watching it with interest.
I do plan on trying synthetic jet/turbine engine oil with no additives to see how it works and what kind of creep (if any) one gets.
I have heard one way to apply it to the slide rails is simply dipping a tooth pick in the oil and wiping it on.

[Hawkmoon]

Gammon, I would like to mix up some synthetic motor oil and moly, but if one pound will make 109 gallons of oil ... that's enough for several lifetimes at the rate I use the stuff. Can the moly powder be bought in smaller qualitities, or should I just buy Mr. Moly's engine additive and mix that with the synth oil at 10%?

[Gammon]

Gammon, I would like to mix up some synthetic motor oil and moly, but if one pound will make 109 gallons of oil ... that's enough for several lifetimes at the rate I use the stuff. Can the moly powder be bought in smaller qualitities, or should I just buy Mr. Moly's engine additive and mix that with the synth oil at 10%?

Smaller amounts are available; it is being sold to treat bullets. I saw a Lyman catalog that listed 6 oz. for $18. That's not too bad when you consider that I paid $5.99 for four oz. of "Break Free" at a local shop. The grade you want is "super fine". There is finer stuff available but it goes for $16 for 3 grams. I don't know anything about the Mr. Moly products except that they use the finest grade .05 um. This is necessary for the moly to pass through the engine oil filter.

[BGregory]

Can't say as I have much to add to this thread, but will be watching it with interest.
I do plan on trying synthetic jet/turbine engine oil with no additives to see how it works and what kind of creep (if any) one gets.
I have heard one way to apply it to the slide rails is simply dipping a tooth pick in the oil and wiping it on.Trim a small artist's paintbrush to use to apply oil. Works great...

[BGregory]

Put another 150 rounds through the SA with one failure to feed (nose up) from slide lock. So, that's 250 with 2 failures (identical) on a pistol that I don't even consider to be broken in. The temp again was hovering around 40 degrees F.

[Gammon]

Put another 150 rounds through the SA with one failure to feed (nose up) from slide lock. So, that's 250 with 2 failures (identical) on a pistol that I don't even consider to be broken in. The temp again was hovering around 40 degrees F.

I'd try a different mag.

[kansas45]

I've been using synthetic motor oil for some time in different things. IT works really well for guns also. I use MOBILE 1. JUST BECAUSE! :scared:

[Gammon]

I am now using Mobil 1 20w50 mixed with super fine moly powder (.5gr/oz). Hands-on testing reveals a noticeable decrease in friction when cycling the pistol. Too soon for any wear and tear results. In an attempt to reduce the synthetic oil "creep" I made up a small batch using conventional oil (15w40) and found that the moly didn't mix as readily as it had with the synthetic, nor did it remain in suspension as well. I'm back to the 20w50 synthetic, just using a little less to minimize "creep".

[kansas45]

I havent tried adding anything to the oil. I was very satisfied with just the oil itself. I will try your mixture, though. I first started using synthetic oil in my slot car motors & axle bushings & found that it hung in there better & allowed for less friction. Same thing applies to fishing reals & firearms & probably anything else where metal on metal action is present. :)

[kid]

Armalite seems to find no reason against using them in their guns.
http://www.armalite.com/library/techNotes/tnote64.htm

[Rotorflyr]

The results I've had with the jet oil were ok, but it's thin and tends to "over-run" even when used in small amounts.....I've thought about thicking agents but haven't yet played around with any. If/when I do I'll update with the results

[kid]

www.synlube.com has comprehensive and interesting info on Tribology and related matters.

Their Fully Synthetic SynLube 5W-50 engine or 70W-90 F gear oils both have 33% by volume of graphite and Moly and PTFE (Teflon) sub micronic solids which will lubricate even when the liquid component has evaporated (at about 525 F) the graphite lubes to 1275 F, PTFE to 600 F, and Moly to 750 F.

That can be perfect for a gun requirement; stable lubrication in all conditions; corrosive environment, wet or dry, freezing cold or burning hot. These lubes are 100% synthetic to the conservative definition of what a 'synthetic' is and not the definition that won Castrol its case against Mobil.

Synlube had also developed a special lubricant for "SuperGun" projectiles that will improve projectile travel and preserve the gun barrel.

[jazor]

Kid

Thanks for the link to Armalite. That was pretty information.

I have been using Mobile 1 Synth 5-30 mixed with what was left in a FP 10 bottle. I have found that the slide on my Commander and my duty HK 45 seem to have less friction. I have not had the time for in depth shooting session yet, but from what I have done this combo has worked well for me.

I have also used it on my Oly AR and it seemed to work better then the straight FP 10 I have been using.

[kid]

Jazor,

A better understanding on different lubing requirements and lubrication is discussed prety well at www.synlube.com they are very informative indeed. _And I think their motor or gear synthetic lubes can really meet or even exceed gun lubrication requirements without spending too much.

If you want to experiment e-mail them, I think they have some interesting stuff for gun lubrication.

[Gammon]

That stuff is awfully expensive. I prefer to add some moly powder to 20W50 synthetic motor oil. Much cheaper.

[redhart]

Any one out there ever tried plain old vasaline(non medicated) petroliem jelly? I have used it as a moisture guard on the shotgun when hunting in duckblinds,thinking about trying it as a lube in the A O, any thoughts? Thanks Semper Fi

[kid]

Pardon sir, what do you mean by AO?

If it is Auto Ordnance 1911, yes it can be can used but with limited protection only and within limited conditions. Otherlow cost lubricants like gear oils or synthetic motor oil could be a better alternative.

[Moose63845]

Any one out there ever tried plain old vasaline(non medicated) petroliem jelly? I have used it as a moisture guard on the shotgun when hunting in duckblinds,thinking about trying it as a lube in the A O, any thoughts? Thanks Semper Fi
I would say not to do it, not only will it attract dirt and other harmful particles. I'm not sure how well it will stand up to the heat and friction, it will also stay where you put it and not want to come off easily which could pose a problem.

[Hawkmoon]

www.synlube.com has comprehensive and interesting info on Tribology and related matters.

Their Fully Synthetic SynLube 5W-50 engine or 70W-90 F gear oils both have 33% by volume of graphite and Moly and PTFE (Teflon) sub micronic solids which will lubricate even when the liquid component has evaporated (at about 525 F) the graphite lubes to 1275 F, PTFE to 600 F, and Moly to 750 F.
Yikes! :scared:

What a God-awful witches brew. I wouldn't allow a mess like that near one of my guns.

Molybdenum, by all means. It provides excellent lubrication and plating properties, as we've discussed previously. But ... with Moly added to the oil, graphite becomes superfluous. And Teflon in automotive oils has been shown to gum up engines and result in premature failures. IMHO (which is worth exactly what it cost you), run away very fast from any product containing Teflon.

Lubriplate for grease, and good quality synthetic oil bolstered by Moly will provide excellent lubrication.

[dmuff]

I find the following products from Westridge Laboratories will prevent the car smell or smell of burning rubber.
The I.D. Slide or for older equipment the I.D. millenium. These two products will please all. How do you put the dead horse on here?

dmuff

[redhart]

Yes "kid" ,.I was referring to the 1911 Auto Ord. thanks for the feed back ,just wondering out loud re; vasaline. I have been using a product called sil-glyde,seems ok to me ,it is clear,comes in a tube ,toothpaste size,cant remember where( or how) I got it.(senior moment)

[kid]

Sil-glyde is a greasy film lubricant that works from -20F to 500F you probably got it in a car maintenance clinic, you are lucky you got the leftover.

Strong points are tackiness, high film strength, wide operating temperature. However it may not be suitable in dusty environments and other parts of a gun. I dont know how long will it dry-up in a single application as it is a wet only lubricant. Quite pricey though at 7 USD/4 oz tube.

[redhart]

Thanks Kid, I am going to see how it holds up I guess, all my buddies at the club are using gun butter or break free, after reading all these posts ......( I am getting dizzy) our C.O. (john) seemed to like the gun butter too.

[redhart]

Oh ,for all I had a revolver guy asking me what to consider reliable re; the 1911,needing help from all you vets I am still a boot with this gun, Semper fi

[Gammon]

I used Break Free for many years with great results. I began experimenting when I noticed that 4 oz costs $6, and the other "super lubes" are even more expensive. I had a supply of synthetics to play with (leftovers from oil changes in truck and mcs) and purchased a small amount of moly (which seems to be more effective than the teflon in Break Free) to experiment. The combo seems to work as well as Break Free and can be made for much less.

[kid]

Barrel leading is very very minimal since I started using Mobil 1 and much much easier to clean.

[DaddyDett]

a couple of points:

synthetic lubes do creep pretty bad, sometimes right past oil seals and gaskets. i run synthetic in all my cars, and even on a tight fresh motor you can expect some seepage and drippyness. but the quality and protection you get is well worth the spotted driveway.


if you have trouble finding 20W50, check out motorcycle oil (usually at least 20 weight). it's thicker, most motorcycles have a split crankcase at the least, and the thicker oil tends to stay in the engine a little longer than thinner weights.

i don't know of any straight 10 weight oil

Oil creep was an issue in the 70's and 80's. Modern seal and gasket materials have for the most part eliminated this issue.

20-50 is the recommended high operating temp oil for all Japanese motorcycle manufacturers, on most, but not all 4-stroke models.
Most 4-stroke motorcycles are now Unitized engines, sharing oil between the engine and trans. Harleys and other V-Twin engines with seperate transmissions like
the Yamaha Road Star 1700, and a couple of Honda and Yamaha 4-stroke single off road engines are the exceptions, rather than the rule these days.
20-50 oils are available in full petrolium, semi-synthetic, full synthetic, and esther base synthetic forms from a variety of motorcycle oil producers including Honda (Mobil/Exxon is the sub), Yamaha, Spectro, Motul, and others.

Straight 10 wt oils are available, usually by special order through companies like Spectro or Bel-Ray, if I remember correctly. 10 wt fork oil is very common, but contains anti-foaming and anti-stiction agents that make it stink to high heaven. I have also heard rumors/estimations that 3in1 Oil is approx 10 wt, though have never proved it.

I run Dexron III in my Gas-Gas 2 stroke trials bike crankcases, to prevent creeping clutch while balancing.


DaddyDett

[Gammon]

Barrel leading is very very minimal since I started using Mobil 1 and much much easier to clean.

Boy do I feel stupid! I have been experimenting with 20w50 synthetic mixed with moly powder as a lubricant for my 1911s, but I forgot to try it in the bore. Thanks for the wake up.

[kid]

Even I probably used it in my barrel out of ignorance, luckily it didnt damage my gun. Mobil 1 flash point 455 F, Teflon lubricates to 600F, Moly to 750 F, Graphite to 1275 F. I dont exactly know how much temp is developed inside the barrel during firing and how far does it compare to an internal combustion engine.

EP additive:

lubricant additive that prevents sliding metal surfaces from seizing under conditions of extreme pressure (EP). At the high local temperatures associated with metal-to-metal contact, an EP additive combines chemically with the metal to form a surface film that prevents the welding of opposing asperities, and the consequent scoring that is destructive to sliding surfaces under high loads ( from http://www.synlube.com/glossary.htm).

[foxyyy]

Can't help but to ask this, correct me if I am wrong here.

Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) = used for cleaning
Engine Oil (ex. Mobil 1) = for lubricating, can be added with additives like moly for superior metal to metal lubrication

Is that it?

[Gammon]

Can't help but to ask this, correct me if I am wrong here.

Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) = used for cleaning
Engine Oil (ex. Mobil 1) = for lubricating, can be added with additives like moly for superior metal to metal lubrication

Is that it?

That's it, sort of. ATF is also a lubricant; it is the only thing that is keeping your transmission from self-destructing, not an easy job when you consider that many people never change their transmission fluid.
I began experimenting with synthetic motor oil, in search of a cheap "super lube" for my gun. I added moly powder because I was looking for a substitute for the teflon in Break Free which I had used successfully for many years.
The truth is that you can use a wide variety of oils in a firearm. I am experimenting because it is interesting, fun, and a way to save $.

[kid]

I use Mobil 1 in my barrel as corrosion protectant not as a lube, either I wipe them dry immediately or just before firing. Probably some of the motor oil component is adsorbed.

adsorption:

adhesion of the molecules of gases, liquids, or dissolved substances to a solid surface, resulting in relatively high concentration of the molecules at the place of contact; e.g., the plating out of an anti-wear-additive on metal surfaces.

[steph]

I can't find any mobil 1 synthetic 20w50 oil here, only mobil 1 5w50. However, I found a castrol synthetic 20w50 4t oil for motorbikes. Is this the same? Would it also be okay if we don't add moly to the oil? Likewise, do we need the ATF to be synthetic also? or a petroleum base ATF would do.
Sorry for asking so many questions.
Thanks for the help
Steph

[kid]

I use 5w 50 Mobil 1 w/o any add on and I dont know where to buy moly or graphite here. PTFE additive is used in PET, Slick 50 which I still see in local auto supply outlets.

I use a non- synthetic ATF (Petron)for my Ed's Red mix.

[DaddyDett]

Mobil 1 does produce a 20-50 version of thier motorcycle oil for Triumph (Hinckley).
It is Triumph's premium race oil, and is supposedly based on Mobil 1's GP/F1 formulations. When I worked at a Triumph dealer in 1996, it ran $70 a gallon.
DaddyDett

[mini14jac]

I guess it must have been on the KelTec boards that I started reading about using Slick50 grease from Walmart.

I started using it years ago on my pistols, Mini14, and AR.
Use CLP for cleaning, and Slick50 for most of my lube needs.
I have a small bottle that produces a tiny drop of oil at the end of its "snout".
It's full of Mobil 1. It is used for places that truly need oil.

Probably been using this combination for 5 years, shooting once a month or so.
Glock, Kahr, KelTecs, Taurus, Colt, Daly, Ruger, and a couple of revolvers.
No problems so far.
Now I'll see how it works on my new S&W 1911.

I also use these products on my carry guns. I don't leave them really wet, or gooey. I use just enough oil and grease to do the job.
I've not had any problems with oil migrating out of the guns, or getting on my clothes.

As another poster said, I'm too lazy to try mixing my own formulas.

[Gammon]

I found Mobil 1 20w50 at a local auto parts store although it was intended for use in a Harley Davidson motor cycle. Castrol should work just as well. I use Castrol 5w50 in my 22lr conversion; it was recommended by Mr. Ciener.
I began by mixing in some ATF for its cleaning properties, but eliminated it because I felt that the motor oil had detergent additives. I added the moly because I wanted something comparable to the teflon in Break Free. The moly seems to be superior to teflon as far as mixing with the motor oil and stays in suspension much better. Effectiveness will have to be measured over time. I have two new pistols in the works that will serve as guinea pigs.
The moly (super fine) is available from industrial suppliers for about $40/lb with shipping or in smaller amounts from reloading suppliers who sell it to treat bullets. The process is rather simple, I just add .5 gr to a one ounce dispenser bottle full of motor oil and shake.

[DaddyDett]

There was something I omitted from my earlier 20-50 post.
Motorcycle oils are formulated to give type appropriate service life in unitized engines.
Because the oil is squished by the clutch plates, and lubricates gear faces, bearings etc. it is designed a little differently.
According to a Spectro Oils Tech Rep I spoke with at an industry convention, the following is what makes motorcycle specific oils different.
In automotive oils, the base weight oil is designed with LONG molecular chains, for coating properties. In motorcycle oils, a shorter base weight chain design is used, in answer to shortened oil life issues caused by shearing of the oil by clutches and transmissions. Auto oils in motorcycle engines tend to go about 1/2 the service life that can be expected in an auto engine. ie petro base oils begin to fail at about 1000 mi., as opposed to the 2500-3000 mi change interval usually recommended.
Short base weight chain oils can and do go the 2500-3000 mi expected in Unitized engines.

DaddyDett

[Gammon]

There was something I omitted from my earlier 20-50 post.
Motorcycle oils are formulated to give type appropriate service life in unitized engines.
Because the oil is squished by the clutch plates, and lubricates gear faces, bearings etc. it is designed a little differently.
According to a Spectro Oils Tech Rep I spoke with at an industry convention, the following is what makes motorcycle specific oils different.
In automotive oils, the base weight oil is designed with LONG molecular chains, for coating properties. In motorcycle oils, a shorter base weight chain design is used, in answer to shortened oil life issues caused by shearing of the oil by clutches and transmissions. Auto oils in motorcycle engines tend to go about 1/2 the service life that can be expected in an auto engine. ie petro base oils begin to fail at about 1000 mi., as opposed to the 2500-3000 mi change interval usually recommended.
Short base weight chain oils can and do go the 2500-3000 mi expected in Unitized engines.

DaddyDett

How do you think the different make up of MC oil affects its suitability for firearm lubrication?
I don't want to hijack this thread, but I have to ask one question while I have someone knowledgeable in motorcycles on the line. Given that the forces and wear to be dealt with are different in the engine and transmission, why mix the two? Why not use separate, and different oils to lubricate each?
Harley Davidson has done this for years in its "unitized" Sportster engines, a practice I think makes a lot of sense.
As to the effectiveness of auto oils in a MC, one of the mags ran a story on a rider that took a four cylinder Honda (CBR 1000) over 200,000 miles without a major tear down. He used Castrol automotive oil (synthetic, I believe) but ran the oil three or four thousand miles, if my memory is correct.

[DaddyDett]

I suppose anti-shearing properties of m/c oil would make it better suited, particularly on the slide rails.
I would call the Sporty motor semi-unitized. Remember the Sporty was developed to compete with the narrower, lighter Triumphs, BSA's and Nortons, in the late 50's. M/C designers went to unitization in order to save weight, and make a more compact engine. This also translates to a lower center of mass and center of gravity in the right frame mounting setup. End benefit is a much quicker handling bike that is tons easier to ride through the twisties.

Since oil technologies have improved so much since that landmark day when Honda rolled out the first CB750, most motorcycle companies have only done non-unit engines for special cases/applications.
The Honda CR450F motocrossers use a engine/gear oil setup in a single engine case design. They use a gear oil usually found in 2-strokes for the trans. The benefit in this case is heat dispersion from an extremely compact 4-stroke engine. Heat build-up in the clutch and the resultant performance loss is a big issue in high performance motocross engines.
The Japanese manufacturers have gone back to non-unit on bikes like the Yamaha Road Star 1700, in order to cash in on the "Big Twin" cruiser groove.

The car vs. M/C oils argument will never end, it's rehashed every year.
I think the key to the success of that CBR1000 owner is the change interval.
Remember in my earlier post I said that car oil usually only lasts about 1/2-2/3 the mileage in a bike. Normal recommended change interval for full synthetics is 5000 mi. for most brands.

In my last 2 street bikes, a 1994 1/2 Yamaha YZF 600 (unit engine) and a 1979 Triumph T140D Bonneville Special (non-unit) I ran Golden Spectro semi-synthetics with very good result, and used Bel-Ray M/C gear lube in the Bonnie trans. I put 12K miles on the YZF in the first 6 months I had it, some commuting, some hard twisties riding. Spectro did not let me down.

An aside, thanks for the compliment on my knowledge. I have been riding since 1970, and spent about 14 yrs all tolled working in M/C dealerships.
I have worked parts, assembly/PD, and some line mechanic work.

My apologies to the Forum if I have hijacked this thread, sharing knowledge was my primary purpose here.
DaddyDett

[kid]

DaddyDett,

Thanks for the info. If I understood it right, Steph doesnt have to worry using Castrol 20w50 4t motorbike oil on his gun.

(Quote: mobil 1: "I can't find any mobil 1 synthetic 20w50 oil here, only mobil 1 5w50. However, I found a castrol synthetic 20w50 4t oil for motorbikes. Is this the same? Would it also be okay if we don't add moly to the oil? Likewise, do we need the ATF to be synthetic also? or a petroleum base ATF would do. Sorry for asking so many questions. Thanks for the help
Steph". End of Quote)

[steph]

thanks for your help guys. Now I can have a cheaper substitute lubricant. :)

[kid]

One more info Steph. The motorcycle oils usually don't have friction modifiers to maintain assurance of a reliable transmission system function as most of the motorcycles use wet-type clutches. I dont know how much more will you gain with friction modifiers but heavier fully synthetic motor oil (for cars ) are surely available if this would be an issue to you.

[steph]

Kid,
The heaviest synthetic for automotive oil I found is the shell helix, I think at 15w50. The next one is the mobil 1 5w50. Would you still recommend the mobil 1?
Thanks
Steph

[kid]

I think helix 15w50 will migrate less, many shooters here are satisfied with Shell helix performance in their guns. I dont think mobil 1 would be superior.

[Gammon]

In my experience, all synthetics migrate and weight doesn't seem to be a factor. this "creep" takes place over time and doesn't seem to be the movement of a lower viscosity fluid. I experimented briefly with 15w40 dino oil, but gave up as the moly I am using didn't mix as well as it did with synthetic.

[kid]

I think an appropriate aplicator will help control migration especially along the grooves and crevices. An ordinary dropper bottle tends to flood even with one drop. I use disposable syringe since I got a lot of them.

Well, its really ideal for an engine to have an oil which is ready to flow, while maintaining a strong unbroken lubricant film of proper thickness between moving parts even in extreme temperature and pressure conditions.

Additives also provide sufficient protection in conditions where 'boundary lubrication' exist.

Boundary lubrication:

The state of lubrication when conditions exist that do not permit the formation of a lubricant film capable of completely separating the moving parts. As a result the asperities of the moving parts come in contact and a high wear rate results.

[Gammon]

I tend to "over lube" my guns, so there is plenty ready to "creep". Even so this is more of an annoyance than a problem. The results I am getting from the synthetic/moly mix is good enough to outweigh such an inconvenience. I have found that 20w50 is closest in viscosity to lubes like Break free and that 5w50 is good for guns where friction can pose a problem (a Ciener 22 conversion for example).

[foxyyy]

Just made a research since I'll be getting my new gun this week. Many people are using kerosene to clean their guns. Kerosene is made from crude oil and is highly high in lead and hydrogen sulfate than the more processed gasoline. So, why clean with a solvent that is high in lead when you want to get rid of the lead in guns in the first place? Hydrogen sulfate also causes cracking corrosion in stainless steel.

A commercial of Caltex (Chevron), about their new Techron gasolines with polyether amine popped out of a TV commercial. The commercial had small people cleaning the pistons in the engine and thought to myself, why not let these "small people" clean the innards of my gun? Hehe.

So is this a good cleaning/lubricating tandem:

Techron gasoline = for cleaning
Any 20W/50 fully-synthetic engine oil (preferably Mobil1) = for lubrication

[DaddyDett]

Gasoline is NOT a good, or safe, solvent. The explosion hazard far outweighs any advantages . Please don't clean anything with Gasoline.

Yamaha sells a liquid carburetor cleaner that is much more effective and has much less explosion hazard.


DaddyDett

[Gammon]

The truth is that you can use almost any (safe) solvent to clean most of a 1911. I use mineral spirits that I keep in a 50 cal ammo can (rubber gasket lid to keep the fumes in). This allows me to immerse the parts in the solvent and scrub them inside the can. The mineral spirits do a good job of cleaning the parts and wipe off easily, plus they don't smell to badly, and are CHEAP. I save the expensive stuff for the bore.

[Gammon]

In my experience, all synthetics migrate and weight doesn't seem to be a factor. this "creep" takes place over time and doesn't seem to be the movement of a lower viscosity fluid. I experimented briefly with 15w40 dino oil, but gave up as the moly I am using didn't mix as well as it did with synthetic.

Apparently I wasn't patient enough. I mixed 1/2 gr of superfine moly with 1 oz. of Mobil Delvac 15w40 conventional oil. The moly just sat there on top of the oil and failed to mix well when shaken. I gave up and left the sample on my bench. Several weeks later, I checked the sample and the moly had mixed completely, with no residue on the bottom of the bottle. In use this stuff doesn't "creep" like synthetic and could be an alternative for those unhappy with "creep" who want to experiment with moly.

[milethief]

Has anyone compared all of this motor oil to Gun Butter?
Some people swear by this stuff, to the point of putting it on a bagel.
1911 firearms are a costly investment, i just want the BEST for my baby.
Is Gun Butter the answer?

[Gammon]

I haven't tried "Gun Butter" so I can't comment on tis effectiveness. I have used "Break Free" for many years with results so good that I never really thought of trying another oil. That is, until I noticed that 4 oz. of Break free was up to $5.99 at the local gun shop.
My testing was intended to come up with a cheap lube that will perform as well as Break Free. I used motor oil because I had a supply in my shop and because lubing a pistol should be quite easy compared to protecting an automobile engine. Moly was added to do the job of the PTFEs in Break Free. Results so far have been promising, but I have no scientific data to back me up. My opinion is that synthetic oil and moly will perform as well as any other liquid lube. I too, want the best for my guns; I'm just not willing to pay for it, and I enjoy the experiments.

[kansas45]

O.K. I've been using Mobile1 5W/30 on my range gun's for about 3 month's now. I can't believe how much better they work, well smoother anyway than with just regular gun oil. I have used 75/90 gear lube on my XD45, P89 & my S/A Ultra Compact to lube the slide. It stays put even better & still has the smooth feeling of the lighter oil. :dead_hors :)

[Gammon]

O.K. I've been using Mobile1 5W/30 on my range gun's for about 3 month's now. I can't believe how much better they work, well smoother anyway than with just regular gun oil. I have used 75/90 gear lube on my XD45, P89 & my S/A Ultra Compact to lube the slide. It stays put even better & still has the smooth feeling of the lighter oil. :dead_hors :)


I think 20w50 is closer to the viscosity of most gun oils I have used. This would allow you to use one oil for the entire pistol rather than light oil for the action and gear oil for the slide. I tried synthetic gear oil but didn't like the odor and found the excess I had spilled on the slide difficult to remove.
PS Ciener recommends 5 weight synthetic oil on his 22LR conversions.

[kansas45]

Gammon-
I believe you are right about the 20W/50 being closer to the gun lube in use today. I settled on the 5W/30 on the gun's I take to the range. I clean & oil them after each trip & feel that the lighter oil stay's with me well during the time I spend at the range. I also feel that the 75/90 gear lube doe's have a different oder but I really don't notice it too much. To me, the way it performe's over shadow's the smell. I'm still just trying it out, but I think I like it!
Do you guy's think :wl: ?

[Gammon]

My current lube is 1 oz. of 20w50 synthetic mixed with .5 gr of superfine moly. This seems to do it all well and has made several of the pistols I have used it on easier to hand cycle. Sorry about the pics, but I just diverted my camera fund to purchase an adjustable stock for the AR I am building.

[bonanza45]

Right now, I'm experimenting with various combinations of 20-50 synthetic oil and MOLY (had to buy a pound for $34.50 but thats enough for 300 years or so). Ill let you know it all plays out in the future ;)

[radavis321]

my dad always used my moms singer sewing machine oil on all his guns, they still function really well,& he also told me that 3 in 1 oil works good also.

[WhiteCoyote]

I have been reading all the threads with some interest.
I have used numerous gun oils. They all seem to work, they have to, but the cost for the special gun oils are way to high.
I have for some time been using Amsoil 0W30. It works great, and a quart should last a life time.
What did all the shooters use before all the super oils were invented? The 1911 is almost 100 years old, all those guns were not lubricated with todays wonder oils (what did they use 40, 50, 60 + years ago?). Many are still around, and still functioning. Makes you wonder how all those guns survived without todays wonder oils?
The bottom line is proper cleaning, and proper lubrication. Use what ever oil works best for you, and your gun should last a life time.
Good luck! :geek:

[jonathon]

I've been using high temp wheel bearing grease on my SIGs for quite a while and now use it on my Colt. On the SIGs I'd put some on the slide rails and around the barrel, followed by a couple drops of Mobil1 5w30 on the slide rails as a "floater". Cycles great and doesn't move around or get messy.

On the Colt I just put grease on the locking lugs and a little on the pick up rail, the rails and small parts I use Mobil1 on.

[JOHNLN64]

Lucas makes a gun oil and they make a few synthetic single weight oils.
I have not tried the gun oil but the company seems to have a strong reputation in the lube business. I know a lot of truckers that swear by there oil additives.
we sell the lucas high performance syn oil 20w50 in the parts dept' at work.
I will get a quart monday and ck it out. I know the oil additive they have has a strong cling factor. reading about the motor oil it sounds like it might have the same additive in it. not sure about the gun oil.

[Pike]

WhiteCoyote posed a question I've also wondered about. Ever since I mustered up the courage to oil a pistol (admittedly revolvers until a 1911 purchase earlier this year), I've used 3 in 1 oil. Do any of you know of a problem with this particular oil? I've always liked it for its wicking tendencies, allowing you to get it into tight spots without disassembly. However, and this could be the usual anti-gun thing, the 3 in 1 people don't even mention guns as a use for their product (as opposed to bicycles, furniture, parts on the space shuttle-I kid). Heck, I've even got an episode of "Dragnet" where Joe Friday is oiling his Detective Special with 3 in 1! Could Joe Friday be wrong???? Thanks for your info, and Happy Holidays! Bill.

[Linea_de_Fuego]

My best Tool and diemaker friend developed " Meyer's Best Lube" for firearms. 10% STP, 40% Marvel Mystery Oil, 40% Dexron ATF. Use synthetic if you wish. Creeps. High strength. Wonderful for Stainless steel...prevents galling. Slicker than snot on a door handle. (As we used to say). Cheap. Is red. can't help that. Try it . you'll like it.
I use something similar to this. It is 2 parts Mobil 1
1 part STP
1 part ATF
It can be put into a syringe for easy application and has just the right viscosity, about like Mobil 1.

[berkbw]

I have used Marvel mystery oil in several special blends. It certainly enhances the creep factor.

b-

[Hawkmoon]

My best Tool and diemaker friend developed " Meyer's Best Lube" for firearms. 10% STP, 40% Marvel Mystery Oil, 40% Dexron ATF. Use synthetic if you wish. Creeps. High strength. Wonderful for Stainless steel...prevents galling. Slicker than snot on a door handle. (As we used to say). Cheap. Is red. can't help that. Try it . you'll like it.
I wonder what the missing 10% is ...

[Trapper L]

Gammon, you didn't state which of the 5w-40 oils you used. There are several different types of synthetic basestocks used in motor oils. There are the Gp IIIs like Castrol Syntec, Rotella T synthetic, and others. There are PAOs which would be like Amsoil, Royal Purple, and then the blended ester based oils like Redline and others. The Gp IIIs are a dino oil but have undergone a change on the molecular level to legally be called a synthetic. It is a liquid AND gas to liquid technology. Most of the PAOs with the exception of the ones listed have been reformulated to a blend of PAO and Gp III because of Katrina. The plants making this type of basestock were shut down a long time. Most folks like to refer to these as "true" synthetics but in fact are of the same hydrocarbons as dino but of different and more consistent in size, chain lengths. PAOs are a gas to liquid technology. The likelihood of the oil having more lubricity would be wrong. The synthetics, regardless of basestock, will have greater film strengths than a normal gun oil. This is most likely why the synthetic works so much better. Some of the PAOs listed above will have tackifiers in the formulation to keep the oil on the job. It is a property of PAOs that it does not stay on the job but will run off of metal parts, hence, the tackifier to keep it in place. The good news, if it works, a quart should last you a lifetime.

[danang]

Look, I'm a shooter not a chemist nor mathmatician. Do it in parts like he told me, not by my (deficient) math...4 parts, 4 parts, 1 part. That'll get ya. He also uses it in his bullet lube.

[Pro_Gun]

I ordered 8 ounces of Armalube recently. It is synthetic based with some other "secret" ingredients added. Nice squirt bottle for applying came with and a nice "free" barrel LED light. I use it very lightly as it is expensive.

On my first run with the 1911 I was pleased. I thought I came back cleaner than the week prior shooting the same ammo and about the same amount. Time will tell. I will be testing it over time on 2 1911's, an SKS, a revolver and a Glock. It is at www.armalube.com if your interested. I think you can get a small sample for a dollar to try it out. I will report back occasionally as time permits.

Excerpt from a reply to my order questions:
The entire formulation consists of a secret formula. It includes a combination of synthetic base oils and a variety of special chemical additives. As you may know, there are hundreds of varieties of synthetic oils and thousands of chemical additives. The formula was developed by a physicist and electronic engineer and I am told is very complex. As a result, the properties of ArmaLube are unique and well suited to very demanding mechanical and environmental conditions.

[chimkayu]

Halito, I know better than to use synthetics to break in a new engine because it is TOO slick to allow for seating of the rings, so maybe it would be a good oil for use in a fire-arm. I have been using Outers Tri Care lately although I used to use Rem Oil. When I was in the USN, GTMO, we used diesel fuel (blew my mind, but it seemed to work). I dunno, I'm kinda like some in here, I used to just clean with Hoppes #9 and oil it up and never had any problems...but then again I am not shooting up in the thousands per week range either, so....

Merry Xmas, Ric

[Bud White]

Ive used Mobile one or castrol synth in my guns for years just depends What i have on hand at the time

never had any problems

now for a carry or a super heavy shooting session i prefer to add grease to the mix

[chimkayu]

Halito, I just never really thought of using motor oil in a fire-arm...ahhh, like the old commercial used to say;"...motor oil is motor oil." I'll have to try it sometime. Love the 1911, Florida (bet it's warm there), and this forum.

Merry Xmas, Ric

[The Virginian]

The original manual for the 1911 and later the 1911-A1 called for Sperm (Whale) Oil as the first lubricant of choice or if that wasn't available SAE 30 motor oil. Sperm Whale Oil was used for almost everything that needed fine lubrication, including the first automatic transmission. After the war they developed a synthetic version called ATF which works just as well or better on guns too. I am not surprised you got good results from using synthetic motor oil either.

[Velocette]

Gentlemen;
I've been following this thread for a while and it appears that some facts about automotive synthetic lubricants are in order.
1, Synthetic oils are designed to be tolerant of much higher temperatures and load factors than standard oils. This is why Mercedes Benz, Porsche, Ferrari, Corvette and more, specify the use of synthetic oils in their products.
2, Synthetics are slipperier than their dino cousins. Not a lot, but there's a reason virtually all racers use synthetics (+ see #1 above).
3, Synthetics have lower surface tension. That is they will creep. Creep past the seals, gaskets etc of an engine. And logically creep and go places they were not placed. (read this keep it away from your ammunition.)
4, Synthetics have higher film strength than conventional oils, a good thing for us firearms people.
4, Grease is OIL that has had soaps, additives, thickeners added to create their thick gooey consistency. They are NOT better lubricants, just lubricants that will stay where they are placed at much higher temperatures.
5, Gear oil is not the same as engine oil. It's viscosity measurement is not the same nor is it's additive package. Sae 80 / 90 gear oil is essentially identical to sae 40 / 50 engine oil @ 100 degrees C. However, gear oils have chlorine and sulphur in them as anti wear ingredients for the heavily point loaded gears in a rear end, our firearms have nothing even remotely approaching this load level.. This chlorine and sulphur are NOT good for our firearms and should be avoided. (perhaps that's why they smell so bad)
6, Automatic Transmission Fluid is an oil that is about 3~7 SAE viscosity with dyes added (red) and other additives to allow the correct function of the clutches, bands, pumps & valves in an auto transmission. If your 1911 has clutches, bands, pumps and valve bodys, go ahead and use ATF. Otherwise stick to oils or greases as applicable.
5 All automotive lubricants sold for STREET use must conform to SAE and API standards. These standards are intended to assure proper lubrication AND NOT TO AFFECT THE AUTOMOTIVE EMISSIONS SYSTEMS!
6 As such all lubricants for STREET use must not foul catalytic converters or any other parts of emissions systems. This means that many of the most effective wear reducing agents cannot be in modern STREET motor oils. (Phosphorus & Cadmium)
7. Racing oils however are not constrained by any of the above limitations. (Recall the thread earlier discussing Royal Purple, which is a racing lubricant.)
8, If you want the best lubricant for your 1911 Hi-power Springfield Kimber .45 Super 9-40, My suggestion is not to make up a "witches brew" but go to your local speed shop & purchase a quart of 5 W 40 synthetic Racing oil. Mix it with nothing and use it sparingly, a quart will last your for about 20 years.

To close up, I use Synthetic motor oil in all of my vehicles. A case in point is a Ducati 900 SS motorcycle. It had 30,000 miles on it and track weekends spent at full throttle - as long as I had the courage. (I won sometimes so I had enough) When I took the engine down to repair a broken head stud, I miked the cylinder walls. There was NO measurable wear on the cylinder walls anywhere. Thrust side, pin side, no-where. Wifes Miata, 200,000 miles, original engine still running fine, same compression as at 30,000 miles.

Synthetic oils work and when used correctly, they can out-do all the rest. They are designed to function in areas FAR beyond anything our puny little firearms can subject them to. (imagine the demands inside a Corvette ZR1 engine at 6500 rpm & 550 horsepower, hour after hour.) Just don't make up something that will detract from their performance.

Shoot straight & stay safe

Roger

[The Virginian]

Gentlemen;
I've been following this thread for a while and it appears that some facts about automotive synthetic lubricants are in order.
1, Synthetic oils are designed to be tolerant of much higher temperatures and load factors than standard oils. This is why Mercedes Benz, Porsche, Ferrari, Corvette and more, specify the use of synthetic oils in their products.
2, Synthetics are slipperier than their dino cousins. Not a lot, but there's a reason virtually all racers use synthetics (+ see #1 above).
3, Synthetics have lower surface tension. That is they will creep. Creep past the seals, gaskets etc of an engine. And logically creep and go places they were not placed. (read this keep it away from your ammunition.)
4, Synthetics have higher film strength than conventional oils, a good thing for us firearms people.
4, Grease is OIL that has had soaps, additives, thickeners added to create their thick gooey consistency. They are NOT better lubricants, just lubricants that will stay where they are placed at much higher temperatures.
5, Gear oil is not the same as engine oil. It's viscosity measurement is not the same nor is it's additive package. Sae 80 / 90 gear oil is essentially identical to sae 40 / 50 engine oil @ 100 degrees C. However, gear oils have chlorine and sulphur in them as anti wear ingredients for the heavily point loaded gears in a rear end, our firearms have nothing even remotely approaching this load level.. This chlorine and sulphur are NOT good for our firearms and should be avoided. (perhaps that's why they smell so bad)
6, Automatic Transmission Fluid is an oil that is about 3~7 SAE viscosity with dyes added (red) and other additives to allow the correct function of the clutches, bands, pumps & valves in an auto transmission. If your 1911 has clutches, bands, pumps and valve bodys, go ahead and use ATF. Otherwise stick to oils or greases as applicable.
5 All automotive lubricants sold for STREET use must conform to SAE and API standards. These standards are intended to assure proper lubrication AND NOT TO AFFECT THE AUTOMOTIVE EMISSIONS SYSTEMS!
6 As such all lubricants for STREET use must not foul catalytic converters or any other parts of emissions systems. This means that many of the most effective wear reducing agents cannot be in modern STREET motor oils. (Phosphorus & Cadmium)
7. Racing oils however are not constrained by any of the above limitations. (Recall the thread earlier discussing Royal Purple, which is a racing lubricant.)
8, If you want the best lubricant for your 1911 Hi-power Springfield Kimber .45 Super 9-40, My suggestion is not to make up a "witches brew" but go to your local speed shop & purchase a quart of 5 W 40 synthetic Racing oil. Mix it with nothing and use it sparingly, a quart will last your for about 20 years.

To close up, I use Synthetic motor oil in all of my vehicles. A case in point is a Ducati 900 SS motorcycle. It had 30,000 miles on it and track weekends spent at full throttle - as long as I had the courage. (I won sometimes so I had enough) When I took the engine down to repair a broken head stud, I miked the cylinder walls. There was NO measurable wear on the cylinder walls anywhere. Thrust side, pin side, no-where. Wifes Miata, 200,000 miles, original engine still running fine, same compression as at 30,000 miles.

Synthetic oils work and when used correctly, they can out-do all the rest. They are designed to function in areas FAR beyond anything our puny little firearms can subject them to. (imagine the demands inside a Corvette ZR1 engine at 6500 rpm & 550 horsepower, hour after hour.) Just don't make up something that will detract from their performance.

Shoot straight & stay safe

Roger

#3 is a myth that synthetic oil creeps past seals (on today's cars 1990-present) in fact the sythetics will leak only on older cars with partial cork/rubber seals because of the additives, not the oil itself. If you have modern seals this is a non-issue. I use full sythetic oil in all 3 of my Mercedes Benz and sythetic blend in the Honda and Ford we have as daily drivers. The guns get synthetic ATF and some Mobil 1 Oil as a mix.

[Velocette]

"#3 is a myth that synthetic oil creeps past seals (on today's cars 1990-present) in fact the sythetics will leak only on older cars with partial cork/rubber seals because of the additives, not the oil itself. If you have modern seals this is a non-issue. I use full sythetic oil in all 3 of my Mercedes Benz and sythetic blend in the Honda and Ford we have as daily drivers. The guns get synthetic ATF and some Mobil 1 Oil as a mix."

Still, keep it away from your ammunition. Your ammo does not have modern seals and the synthetic can contaminate your powder.

The synthetic I use in all my modern cars does not leak. However when I use it in my XK 120 Jag, it leaks noticably more than the dino oil. But the engine runs better.

[The Virginian]

"#3 is a myth that synthetic oil creeps past seals (on today's cars 1990-present) in fact the sythetics will leak only on older cars with partial cork/rubber seals because of the additives, not the oil itself. If you have modern seals this is a non-issue. I use full sythetic oil in all 3 of my Mercedes Benz and sythetic blend in the Honda and Ford we have as daily drivers. The guns get synthetic ATF and some Mobil 1 Oil as a mix."

Still, keep it away from your ammunition. Your ammo does not have modern seals and the synthetic can contaminate your powder.

The synthetic I use in all my modern cars does not leak. However when I use it in my XK 120 Jag, it leaks noticably more than the dino oil. But the engine runs better.


Oh, yes, these modern lubes/oils love to creep into every nook and crannie...including primers in ammo. Jags in general love to leak a bit, just like Rolls Royces and we have had our share of British cars to experience it too. The leaks are small though and did it with straight dino oil too, just not as much as with synthetic. German and Japanese cars we own don't leak unless there is something wrong. The American cars start to leak oil only after lots and lots of miles, but it is usually the oil pan seal. Anyway, I like and use many automotive products on my guns.

[Velocette]

Respectfully speaking, Mr Virginian, elderly Jags do not like to leak a bit. they leak a LOT. The dribbles under the 120 are contained only by cardboard and kitty litter. (used of course due to the feline nature of the car)
Happy days to ya!
Roger

[Norton]

Hey Velocette,
Is this British wisdom from owning a Velocette? I would be jealous of that.
If Brit stuff didn't leak, how would you tell if there was oil in it?
Norton
68 fastback
Darmah
907

[chimkayu]

Halito all. Speaking of cars and such...if you happen to be breaking in a new motor with a flat tappet cam try to use something like Rotella or another diesel oil with a zinc additive or other high pressure additive. Then after the break-in go to the synth if wanted. Found this out the hard way. Love the forum, Guam (beautiful place), and the 1911.

C.......

[Velocette]

Hey Norton; Yes it would be from resurrecting a Velocette 500cc Venom from a pile (as opposed to a basket) Took me two years. Rode it to the opening of the Museum of Modern Arts (MOMO) opening of the art of the motorcycle in New Yawk.
The Velo was a great learning experience and expensive too.

Shoot straight, ride safe.

Roger

[Norton]

Great bike, rode one once. That must have been a great ride to Manhattan.
I suppose I have to say something gun related.
Don't ever ride with a 45 and a short bike jacket. It makes for an interesting & exciting
few minutes.
It shifts on the right.
Norton

[shovelwrench]

OK,
I read the thread and tried it, BUT, all I had was REM OIL and some Amsoil gear oil (not sure of the weight) so I cut the gear oil about two thirds gear oil to one thirds Rem Oil.

WOW Slick like you would not beleive but not too heavy.

Lightened the trigger that much I had to take an ALIBI (spelling?)

Creap doesnt seem to bad, but its only on the thing for 3 days nows

I'll report back

[c pierce]

Gentlemen Ihave been useing amsoil 2050 motorcycle oil for years on my guns. They all are like new.

[CreapyCrawler]

I didn't have time to read all the post about synthetic oil and gun but must no one checked on the history of synthetic oil. It was developed by the Germans during WWII on the Russian front to keep their tanks and artillery pieces from freezing up in the Russian winter. Obviously they knew it would work in guns..why is everyone so surprised? :nono:

[EdS]

Sorry to jump in here late, but I'm kind of new to the forum. I have a Wilson 1911 that's still fairly tight, slide to frame and a much older Colt Gold Cup that has many thousand rounds through it. OK. I also have many fairly light lead SWC loads that work in the lightly-sprung CGC. I lubed the rails on my Wilson with a thin coat of Marine Moly Grease and tried the lead SWCs. I was shocked when they ran as good or better than in the CGC! I've also been using Mobile 1, 5W20 synthetic in some pistols. It also works well. Just my thoughts... Ed

[Welmack]

Some have hit on the edge of this fact but haven't actually hit the point I would like to make. I have used Rotella T synthetic in my 1500 Goldwing for years, but has no friction modifiers due to the clutch. If you were to use Rotella T 5W40, you might need something to increase the "slippiness", however I doubt you would need to add anything to a synthetic WITH friction modifiers. Seems like any synthetic with lower rating of at 20W that has the modifiers would be good. BTW, I tried Rem Oil and the odor is very disagreeable to me, and both my 1911s dry out very fast when lubed with it. I almost feel that one could almost "smell" that I am carrying.