custom Norinco , have I gone to far ?

[berny1964]

I'm in the process of customizing my Norinco and so far this is whats been done . When I purchased it 2 years ago it had an after market trigger , the one that just about evey body makes , adjustible with 3 holes , extended slide release , and extended safety and over the last few weeks I've installed a flat mainspring housing and extreme gripsafety (beaver tail) , both McCormick and since the grip safety wouldn't work with the origanal hammer I replaced the hammer and sear with Wilson Cambat parts . I've been reading alot about substandard parts so I've tried to stick with name brand parts . The pistol shoots just as good as it did before with no FTF or FTE , as a matter of fact I've never had any problems with it , period . The only complaint I do have is that the nitwit that owned it before me ground the "Made in China" off the frame :mad: They didn't do any damage to the function of the gun and it's not that noticable but...... I'm going to have Robar refinish the pistol in Rogaurd and Np3 the internals but I would like to repair the frame where they ground it so the finish will be consistant when it's finished , anybody got an Ideas. :confused:

[care-less]

"have I gone too far"? Yes, you have! Just kidding, do whatever you want; but I would have left it alone. You mentioned substandard parts? But then you say you used McCormick????? Mostly cast or mim parts from there; your Norinco parts were higher quality. Wilsons? Did you buy their bulletproof or their economy line? Your Norinco parts were better. Extended slide stop and safety? Not at all necessary on a pistol used for defense; in fact, they are quite detrimental. Sorry to mess with your illusion, but you asked! But as I said in the begining; its your pistol; and it is also your life that is counting on it. Choose wisely.

[John]

An extended safety is fine by me, I wouldn't care for an extended slide stop.

And rectifying that filing operation can be troublesome. The only way to do it, is to fill the gap with tag welding. But then, you are not sure if the surface treatment will look the same over that area and the rest of the gun, due to potential difference in the metal hardness (at least that applies to blueing, I am not sure about Roguard).

What I would suggest, is to mill that area flat, creating an even, lower surface, in which you can have your name enscribed, or something similar. Then have the pistol refinished.

Rgds

[berny1964]

Thanx for your opinion care-less , I was under the impression that McCormick made Quality parts and what does mim stand for ? The extended slide release and safety were on the pistol when I got it but aren't that extreme and I like them . I thought The wilson parts were the deluxe but after looking at my brownells catalog I'm absolutely positive I put the value line in ....oops :eek: . I've already spent the money for the parts so I will use them for now . the only parts that are McCormick are the mainspring housing and beavertail . I have big hands so the beavertail is very comfortable for me so if I decide I don't like the McCormick what would you suggest , and remember we can't get Norinco parts so thats out of the question and speaking of Norinco parts I kept my old ones just because . This is my first 1911 so I'm still in the learning , but make no mistake about it if I do something that makes it unreliable I will pull the parts off and go back to what works , I won't own a pistol I can't count on , as you said my life might just depend on it , thats why I'm asking questions .

[berny1964]

thanx John , I have a feeling I may just have to live with what they did but I'm hoping the rogaurd will cover most of it since it's more of coating they apply , if not whoever did it blended it in pretty good so like I said I may just have to live with it . In case you are curious Robar is in Phoenix Az. and about 5 miles from my house . I've seen several 1911's as well as Norinco's they've done and they do nice work from what I've seen as well as what their customers say , If you want the web site address I will get it for you .

[care-less]

berny1964, Norinco parts are available; all except the reciever. You can buy new slides, internals, anything! Contact John at Marstar of Canada. www.marstar.com I think! Just type in Norinco 1911A1 and do a google search, Marstar will be the first hit to come up. Prices are way more than reasonable. When you order, specify "Norinco Parts", as they carry other brands. As for MIM, it stands for crap! Errrrr, I mean "metal injection moulded". Basically, they melt some plastic, and stir in powdered metal, inject it into a mold, and then raise the temperature to cook off the plastic, and melt the powdered metal together (hopefully). Part is then heat treated. If done exactly right, you "can" end up with a good part. Problem is the "exactly right" part! An awful lot of manufacturers are using mim in their guns, but I and many others don't like it at all. Kind of reminds me of the pot metal or die cast cap guns we had when we were kids! Most of McCormicks parts are mim; Wilsons value line are mim; only his bulletproof parts are not. Since you are new to the 1911 world, let me say welcome to the best of all handguns! By the way, there are no mim nor investment cast parts on a Norinco; all forged and machined solid steel. That is the way you want it. Considering that they are being made by virtual slave labor in a communist country; it is truly amazing as to the quality of the steel (as good as Colts), and the quality of the fit and function (as good as Colts also!). Probably why they are not imported anymore! Would put a lot of "domestic" makers out of work. Enjoy your pistol, and if you wish to put all of the original parts back on, just contact Marstar. John is a good guy to deal with.

[berny1964]

care-less thanx again for the info , I've been a machinest for going on 20 years and I'm familiar with powdered metal , yep that stuff is junk . I stayed up pretty late going through my Brownells cat. and thats when I realized I put the wrong parts in , so.... back to the drawing board . I'm going to have to check out Marstar and see if Norinco makes the beavertail , hammer and sear I want if not I will get the Wilson Combat or Ed Brown bullet proof parts made of A2 tool steel , from my experience that stuff is tough to damage and should be more than adequit to do the job . I'm going to replace what I put in but I'm curious as to weather I should replace the mainspring housing or not , is there enough stress on that part to cause a failure it being a cheap metal and all or do you think it will fine . Thanx again for the info and the welcome matt and as far as the best pistols in the world (1911) I'm sure this won't be my last , as a matter of fact after this one is done I have plans to build another , kind of a bag of Lays potatoe chips , you can't have just one

[Andy]

Good info. I hope to own one; one day. Gotta get rid of my kids 'n' stuff first tho! :D

Laters...

[berny1964]

Whats up Andy , you don't have to wait till the kids are gone as long you are responsible about it , I grew up around fire arms and the old man made sure I understood the responsibilities and consequences of gun ownership . We used to go up to the mountains regularly for camping and shooting , I kinda miss it .

[care-less]

berny1964, When you are looking for parts in Brownell's catalog, you have need to read very closely (small print). A lot of the big name parts makers will say A2 tool steel, but it also says "cast from"!! Read carefully! I know that this kind of talk will often start a big argument between gun owners regarding the quality of forged vs cast, but I can only go by my own experience and gut feelings. A lot of people will bring up Ruger when discussing castings. It is true that Rugers are cast, and known for their strength. But did you ever look at a Ruger Revolver compared to a Smith & Wesson? It is a lot thicker! Thats because castings don't have the same metal density as forged parts. They must be made thicker to equal the strength of forged. Unfortunatly, when talking about parts for a 1911, you can't make the parts bigger/thicker. They have to be a certain size to fit right? Get forged, machined, and properly heat treated parts! Look on page 97 in your catalog, EGW Competition Sear, and Doug Koenig Low Mass Hammer. EGW makes that hammer also. Forged and Machined tool steel. Check out their website (Evolution Gun Works). Should you ever need an extractor, get an original Norinco, or one from Cylinder & Slide in Freemont, Nebraska (check out their website also). Both of these are genuine "spring" steel. The extractor is a critical part of the 1911. It was designed by Browning to be one long spring, and was spec'd to be manufactured from spring steel. As far as I know, these are the only two sources for genuine spring steel extractors. All of the others, Wilsons, Brown, Nowlin, etc. are machined from barstock, etc. Not the same thing! As far as the mainspring housing goes? There is not a lot of stress on that part, so I guess it doesn't really matter; though I prefer solid steel, not mim. S&A makes a decent one that has the lanyard loop on it (also in Brownells catalog). You can get them arched, flat, checkered, or smooth. The smooth ones are really nice. Just do some research before you shell out your money. Remember, you don't need to be in a rush to buy a part. They will still be available next week right? Buy good ones.

[berny1964]

care-less I got the new brownells cat(2005 #57) with the parts I ordered and the parts your talking about are on page 111 , that Koenig low mass hammer looks sweet , and I see what you mean by the fine print or lack of it . I didn't have plans on replacing the extracter at this point becouse it's the factory part complete with that funny red tint I've read about , but it seems to be working fine . the only reason I changed what I did was so I could put on the beavertail . I won't be getting the replacement parts to replace the junk I put in for a bit , I want to study some more before I spend the money but I really like the look of that Koenig low mass hammer and the sear you pointed out , both will be on the list of must have items also . I went through all my receipts and just realized that flat , checkered mainspring housing came from Numrich and is a Colt peace so I think I'll leave that part alone . The original I had on the pistol was arched , but who ever had it before me made it into a flat smooth one , you can see the grooves at the bottom corner of the housing and it was obvious it had been modified , it really bugged me thats why I changed it out . Whats you opinion of the frames on the Sarco web site that they are offering for 89$ , look under pistol frames (gun012) . I have 6-7 freinds that are wanting to build one and we found a dealer that will give us the more than one price and still register the frames to us individualy , I figured it would be a good learning platform , if I screwed it up I'm not out $2-300 but I don't want something will blow up in my face .

[care-less]

I didn't know Brownells had their new catalog out yet; I was still working off of 56. Sorry about that. I tried to look for those frames on Sarco's site, but couldn't find them. So I really can't comment except to say that for eighty nine bucks I wouldn't expect much. Why don't you just get an essex frame? They are in Brownells catalog, and are fairly inexpensive with a lifetime warranty. They are cast, but have good reviews.

[berny1964]

I should have told you were they were hiding them , sorry . From Sarco home page you click on guns then scroll down to frames and receivers then pistols and it will be the top frame and it's interesting you mention Essex becouse they are listed just below the frame I'm talking about for 120 blued or 125 for stainless . The Essex apear to have the grip screw bushings and maybe the ejector already installed and I can't tell if the plunger tube is in but the frame I was talking about appears to have none of these parts insalled yet . I've also noticed that the Essex is less expensive at Sarco than Brownell by about $30 or so . Either way I will probably go with Sarco because of the price difference as long as the life time warranty is still honored if I buy the Essex . In regards to your mention of the Rugers earlier , I have a very good freind that was a little upset with me when I bought my Norinco because I was looking at 2 pistols at the time and the other 45 was a Ruger (P90 I think) just like his and even though the Ruger was $40 cheaper I bought the Norinco , I've always wanted a 1911 . He got over it as soon as we shot my new purchase and admitted he wanted a 1911 himself , I think he was bummed out becouse of the deal $328 and I found it when he was broke . I'm not bagging on the Rugers for those who like them just voicing my personel opinion , they do make a couple of revolvers that I really really want but this a 1911 forum so I won't get into that .

[care-less]

You don't need to buy through Sarco. Give essex a call. They can ship a frame direct to your ffl. They will even mate up a frame and slide for you if you order them at the same time. I know its a little more money than you wanted to spend, but you can get a forged Rock River Arms frame for $250. There will be a wait if you order it direct from them; but there is a dealer down in Austin, TX that has some in stock for the same price. (Tejas Gunwerks). He had them up on gunbroker for auction, but nobody grabbed them. He may have reposted them I don't know, or give him a call.

[Andy]

Seems since all the talk about material... hmmm.

I guess that since I am a machinist, I need to get some good prints and just make it myself. There. Then everything would be of good material and machined accurately from the get go. What do you think? Berny let me know. We need to get going on some kind of project and see how it comes out. Do you have accurate blueprints? :eek:

[berny1964]

Hi Andy , Having the access to cnc equipment as we do would make a project like this posible as far as manufacturing the parts but there are legality issues when it comes to the frame or receiver and the type of steel and heat treat would be concerns that need to be addressed but not imposible . Nick has a forging that hasn't been machined and is looking for a print of the entire receiver not just the locations of the holes to frame but hasn't found one , I don't think he's looking very hard though . I'm told that a person can manufacture 1 or 2 pistols a year for him/herself without an FFL as long as you are not building them to sell and I'm sure BATF will want a serial # on it . This approach would require extreme amounts of research from a legal stand point and machining stand point . With as many companys making the frames and components it would be a lot easier to buy the parts to build your own but if it's something that feel compelled to try make sure you cunsult the BATF and Az. laws before you start , I don't want to visit you in the clink , know what I mean .

[Single Stacker]

Have you gone too far? The wide variety of parts available to enhance/modify/upgrade the 1911 pistol gives it its versatility and appeal to gun enthusiasts. The ability to upgrade the performance, enhance the look, and modify its function to your specific use makes this gun a great model and design engineering man ever came up with. The satisfaction of producing a one of a kind truly unique gun with your custom specifications knows no bounds. So have you gone too far? I don't think so just take a look at what I have put into my Norinco so far:

New Parts:
Ed Brown Memory Groove Beavertail Grip Safety
Chip McCormick Ambidextrous Thumb Safety
Ed Brown Match Grade Hammer
Full Length Guide Rod
Caspian Arms Trik Trigger
Bomar BMS Rear Sight
Fiber Optics Front Sight
Plastic main spring housing with magwell
Colt Gold Cup Bushing
Wilson Combat Barrel Link
Kamagong wood grips

Labor/Enhancements:
Front Strap Checkering
Fitting Front Sight
Hardchrome Slide change my mind later and had it blackchromed
Hardchrome Frame
Install Bomar Rear Sight
Ramp Polishing & Throating
Trigger Job and install hammer, grip safety and thumbsafety

As I have said, I am not yet thru and is still thinking of replacing a few more parts. Below is another picture of my Norinco with all of the above modifications.

Regards,


SS

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v390/CVCOM16/scan0066.jpg

[Andy]

You have a nice gun there. Gives me all kind of ideas. :rolleyes: