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Prezzz
1st June 2004, 22:31
The title says it all. PRIMARY being the key word.

Mine is a Remington 870 Police Magnum 18" with laser, 8 shot mag, loaded with 00 buckshot, and sits about 2' from the bed. A Sig P239 9mm is on the nightstand in case I don't have time to get the 870.

Stephen A. Camp
1st June 2004, 22:48
Hello.

Remington 870 12 ga. loaded with 000 buck. 4-shot magazine.

Best.

Rabbi
1st June 2004, 23:06
Mossberg 500 ATP (9 shot) 20" cyl. bore choke barrel, loaded with Sellier and Bellot OO buck. This is the clear plastic cased magnum buckshot with 12 pellets. Very mild in the recoil department.

The sidesaddle carrier has five Federal super slugs and close by is a box of #4 buckshot and another box of S&B OO buck.

No sling, no light. Wiped down with silicon rag weekly and mag spring alternated every six months.

Secondary is a Rumanian AK with forty round mag of Barnaul 125 gr. soft points, close by is a six pack of thirty round mags of same ammo.

Always handy, three .45 autos, one on each floor of the house.

All go into the safe when granddaughters are visiting except for my carry piece.

Rabbi

P.S.) Steve, it's great to see you here! Look for a P.M.

Kerwin
1st June 2004, 23:49
Any of my 3 1911's(2 sams and an armscorp.) and/or my winchester .22 cal rifle. I do not have a regular primary weapon, so its usually the first pistol or rifle that i have nearest me. :)

All my 1911's have the same kind of ammo, fmj 230g ammo made by armscorp so it dosnt really matter which pistol i have on hand.

John
2nd June 2004, 08:42
The title says it all. PRIMARY being the key word.

Mine is a Remington 870 Police Magnum 18" with laser, 8 shot mag, loaded with 00 buckshot, and sits about 2' from the bed. A Sig P239 9mm is on the nightstand in case I don't have time to get the 870.
No laser on the Remington, but same as yours. The .45 1911 is in the bedstand.

1911WB
2nd June 2004, 08:49
Primary: Kimber CDP, .45 ACP
Secondy: Colt GM .38 Super :)

Sabre
2nd June 2004, 14:46
PRIMARY: Mossberg 500, 5 round magazine w/ #4 birdshot (don't want to over-penetrate and hit the roomate), 18.5" cylinder bore barrel. Kept in condition 3.

SECONDARY: Kimber Pro Carry II Stainless, 8 round magazine w/ 230gr Gold Dot HP. Kept in condition 1.

Prezzz
2nd June 2004, 14:51
PRIMARY: Mossberg 500, 5 round magazine w/ #4 birdshot (don't want to over-penetrate and hit the roomate), 18.5" cylinder bore barrel. Kept in condition 3.

SECONDARY: Kimber Pro Carry II Stainless, 8 round magazine w/ 230gr Gold Dot HP. Kept in condition 1.

How you like the Kimber? I'm looking at a Pro Carry II in a trade.

Sabre
2nd June 2004, 16:18
How you like the Kimber? I'm looking at a Pro Carry II in a trade.


I'm very happy with it. It feeds anything I put in it. That includes round nose and Win. White Box FMJ (that really looks like a semi-wadcutter shape), Win. White Box JHP, 230gr Gold Dot HP (my carry load), and 230gr cast lead RN (my practice load) and shoots very nicely at 25yds. Only problem I ever have is an occasional failure to return to battery when it is really dirty. A cleaning fixes that problem.
Slide to frame fit was really really tight from the factory. Has loosened up a bit in about 1000rds, but that's to be expected. Rather have it a little loose for reliability's sake, anyway. Trigger is very good. Tiny bit of creep, breaks at about 4 pounds, I estimate.
This is my daily carry piece and I'd recommend one to anybody.

If you're getting one, check out THIS THREAD FROM 1911forum.com (http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=61318&page=1) regarding possible damage to Kimber aluminum frames (like on Pro Carry II) from split-level magazine followers. I use Wilson 47D 8 round magazines with a polymer follower in my Pro Carry because they are excellent magazines and because they won't marr my frame.

readyfire
2nd June 2004, 16:41
Right now 2 sa 1911s ,i sold my mossberg 590 during some hard times but im gonna get it back and add a 30 30 marlin lever with a scout set up.Im but a simple man!

Black_Talon
2nd June 2004, 20:44
870P w/ 4 shot mag and Hornady TAP 00B.

Secondary is an SA Professional with RA45T.

eddailey
2nd June 2004, 23:36
12 GA pump with #1 Buck, 1911 with 10 round mag by the bed, 3" 1911 in my jacket pocket hanging right by the front door. That should do it, but if not, my AR has a 30 rounder in it. Have enough gun.

Ed

LWhitsell
3rd June 2004, 14:28
Winchester Defender 12ga...

OD*
3rd June 2004, 21:44
This near the bed, two others in different hidey-holes (one of them on or near me till beddy bye)
http://www.gunpix.com/gallery/Handguns/Semi-Autos/CCW45.jpg

and an 870 with four buck. Make that a 1967 USGI Ithaca M-37 now ;)

Zeke Menuar
3rd June 2004, 22:29
Western Field 550A 12ga. Looks suspiciously like a Mossberg 500. #1 shot then 00 buckshot. IC choke.
On special occasions, like when the Western Field 12ga is in pieces for cleaning. The family Winchester M1897 (ca1906) stands in. #1 shot FC. Gawd help the BG if I have to use the old timer.

Yugo SKS

My LW Commander is being refitted. Primary handgun is a CZ-83

Then there is my Hungarian Mosin-Nagant M-44. My wife says that the sight of a fat guy in his underwear charging with bayonet out should cause the BG to die of laughter.

ZM

Sagittarian Shooter
4th June 2004, 09:24
P14 Ltd on the third floor; Colt Gold Cup NM in my room + 2" S&W model 64 for the wife...if that won't do it, will gladly throw the Glock 17 or 26 to my daughter :D :P :P

walangkatapat
5th June 2004, 00:34
I have my Caspian built singlestack .45 loaded with 230 SXT's or the Winchester SX2 with tactical 00.

Slabsides Bob
9th June 2004, 02:22
Well, since I live in a small apartment and the engagement ranges are 30 ft or less, and the walls are thin layers of drywall and R19, I leave my 870 out of service and rely on my Combat Commander. Ramped, throated and refinished, with the old style Novak sights, it sits, stuffed full of Hydra-Shoks, in Condition One next to my bed when I'm home. Otherwise it's tucked away in Condition Three when I'm out... and not carrying it.

I have "pre sighted" the apartment and set it up as a kill zone funneling in to the bedroom My plan is to retreat and engage from there if possible. It almost happened when I had a loud knock at the door one night at 2AM. Rather than come right up and look out the peephole, I stayed a few feet back at low ready and yelled "Who goes there!"

It was a cop. The next door unit was broken into that night... I was home and didn't hear it. For some reason the hairs on the back of my neck were standing straight up all night long. Folks, condition yellow is a good mindset to keep at all times!

Slab

Fred
9th June 2004, 11:05
Winchester Defender 12 gauge, backed up by Glock 33, Surefire light and cell phone on night stand.

Scott Gahimer
9th June 2004, 14:00
First choice: The 40MM M79 blooper with 00 buck. You don't have to see what you want to hit. You just have to know the general direction. :eek:

What I settle for: M1 Super 90 with 00, slug, 00, slug, 00... backed up with a variety of handguns placed about.

care-less
11th June 2004, 08:09
I guess I do things a little different than most; but I have 1911's, BHP's, Maks, and P7's scattered all thru the house; one or two in every room. In addition, I am always carrying one of them, and whichever that one is; it also goes to bed with me. With a little creativity, no one visiting my home has a clue as to the number of weapons stashed around them. I prefer a pistol for home defense due to one handed operation, ease of maneuving, and weapon retention. Though I have shotguns also; that long barrel is too easily deflected/grabbed, etc; so it is not my first go to gun.

teal325
11th June 2004, 21:00
Well my primary is my fresly purchased (today) 1991 Colt plain jane in blue 45 acp.

It does have a set of grips on it that are as nice as any wood grip I have seen advertised for less than 80.00 . I think the only reason I would upgrade is for a set of stag, ivory with some nice scrimshaw. These grips have a very nice grain.

michael t
11th June 2004, 23:09
Combat Commander with silver tips next to bed others hid around house.

Ithabrown
12th June 2004, 00:51
20" M37 Vietnam-issue Ithaca (a.k.a. model 37) loaded with #4's and backed up with 00's

Mannlicher
12th June 2004, 18:02
If I had to really pick one, I would go with the Remington Wingmaster 870. I have it fitted with a Remington 20 inch rifle sight barrel, and a Scattergun Tech two shot mag extension. I favor vanilla 00 buck, ususally Remington. No lasers, no flashlights, no GPS or satellite phone.

I also like my shorty Bushmaster a lot. For a lot situations, I think a rifle is better than the scatterguy.

GCT00427
15th June 2004, 04:35
Remington Marine Magnum Shotgun. Nothing can beat a good pump shotgun when somebody comes in uninvited :) .

Chuck

allynroe
15th June 2004, 22:05
Winchester 1300 Defender 18" w/ 8 rounds of 000.

Just the sound of the pump does the job.

Soon the 1911 when finished; hopefully this weekend.

Ithabrown
21st June 2004, 10:36
folks, pardon my ignorance but i dnt seem to be familiar with a 000.

i have 00's but for fear of overpenetration through interior walls of the house, my primary load is #4 buck.

am i missing some things here?

valor1
25th June 2004, 01:02
A remington 870 is my choice. a good pistol like my glock and sti will be my back-up.

jpm
14th July 2004, 17:13
.45 under a magazine

gotangco
30th July 2004, 17:22
2 1911s an armscor and a RIA. 12g armscor shotgun BG model

nivek
30th July 2004, 21:34
Colt 1911 in 45acp.

tea
7th August 2004, 00:30
I have a SS Springfield Armory Mil-Spec 1911-A1 with standard ball ammo on my night stand. Proped up against the bedroom wall near the bed is a Rossi Overland double barrel with twin triggers and twin hammers loaded with 00 buck.

guncop
9th August 2004, 12:32
I am finding it interesting how many use a shotgun for home defense. I just wanted to bring up a couple of points if I may. When my team does a dynamic entry on a house, our primary weapon is a Colt Commando .223 with a 11.5 inch barrel (and I even get paid to play with it !!!!) and the primary entry shotgun is a Remington 11-87 with a 14 inch barrel. We find that even with the 14 inch barrel, its almost too long. This brings up a couple of points to consider: What is your mission? is it to clear a large house with lots of open areas? or a small apartment with lots of tight corners. Please consider the following when choosing a shotgun (or anything else for that matter)
What load will you use and what kind of performance documentation do you have to back it up in court? (re-loads are a huge no-no)?
What kind of training do you have in weapon retention? (Problem with a shotgun)
How much have you trained in low-light encounters?
How have you been trained to conduct a building search?
I don't want to contradict anyone's personal choice here just open it up for discussion since there is alot of different experience out there.
Remember - building searching is a team sport. As cops, we never do it alone.
I'm really enjoying this site and learning a lot from everyone. Stay safe guys!!
Oh yea, by the way, Colt Gov't model with a Dawson Precision light rail and a surefire light attached, Novack night sights. Loads are Gold Dots.

cxm
23rd August 2004, 12:36
Primary is a Wilson/Scattergun Tech Refurbished Remington Wingmaster 870 with 18" bbl, and 6+1 extended magazine plus some bells and whistles including tritium night sight. Ammo is Speer Tactical 00 Buck

Secondary is Colt AR 15, ammo Hornady JHP

Tetrary is M1911s in wife/self's night stand as well as some strategically deployed around the house. Ammo Remington 230gr. Golden Saber.

FWIW

Chuck

davidenorth
23rd August 2004, 18:20
The title says it all. PRIMARY being the key word.

Mine is a Remington 870 Police Magnum 18" with laser, 8 shot mag, loaded with 00 buckshot, and sits about 2' from the bed.

Same 870, factory extension and no laser, and Norinco .45 as secondary.

1911slabsides
23rd August 2004, 19:10
I can't belive that I haven't responded to this. I use a M1911 with 230 gr FMJ. If I wake up in time and the fight goes on too long, I use the other m1911 with 230gr FMJ. If that doesn't work I reload and repeat the process

Wild Turk
27th August 2004, 00:29
Remington 870 turkey gun with Hevi-Shot #4s.

Back up is 1911, military ball ammo. Not sure what grain, but will do the trick I am sure.

robertbank
16th September 2004, 10:58
Mossberg 500, 000 Buck shot
Para SSP by the night table - 185 gr HP Handloads - mine!
Norinco A1 - Basement - Gun Room Pet - 185 gr HP Handloads - mine!

As a Canuck - this violates Bill C68 - I'll protect my family first - deal with Martin and his band of bandits later, Common Law still says we can defend our home and property.

gottripletsNC
19th October 2004, 21:30
i'm poor and cheap, have a snubnose dirty eight under the bed in pushbutton lock box. 1911 stays in the truck for now, when i finish the customizing, they will probably switch positions.

agrotom
20th October 2004, 07:03
A 34 inch baseball bat and a Colt AR15A2 well stocked with 30 round clips!!! :) We might have to shoot a long way in North Dakota.

OLDDEMO
12th February 2005, 00:53
This thread seems to be dying so I thought I would add my 2 cents worth.
1. A SA 1911A1 mil-spec condition 3 in a night stand next to the bed.
2. A 38 police special under the bed on my wife's side.
3. A Remington 870 leaning against the wall at the head of the bed.
4. A Enfield 303 British "jungle carbine" in the front hall closet just close enough to reach if anyone tries to breach the front door.
5. 2 100 pound German Shepherds which are by our sides inside or outside.
6. As a last resort my wife keeps a 22 Beretta in the arm of her chair in the family room.......

Maybe we're paranoid but we live way out in the country and the nearest neighbors are close to a mile away...

John
12th February 2005, 05:52
What? No machine guns on the perimeter? LoL

Sorry, I couldn't resist, no hard feelings I hope!

Skip Nos 2,4,5 (the cat is hardly comparable to the shephers) and 6 for me.

Rgds

robertbank
12th February 2005, 07:08
"What? No machine guns on the perimeter? LoL"

That is close to crossing the line IMHO. You are dealing with the American situation which is as good or as bad as it is portrayed. They have an independent streak that rises to the level of protecting their turf at all costs. If you are not exposed to it you really can't understand. Relying on the state for protection has not had a steller reputation around the world - your country included. Several of my relatives could have spent six years of thier lives doing something more productive back in the 40's then they did and we should not forget that.

John
12th February 2005, 08:04
Bob,

I would be expecting flames from the original poster, to which my humorous remark was directed. Not by a third party!!

I assure you, that if there is someone who does not rely to the state (whatever state) for protection, this is me, and this is obvious, if not from the rest of my post, then from from M1911.ORG and my general conduct in this forum and elsewhere.

And I didn't criticize any situation, since I've lived in US of A, and I know from first hand experience what is like living there. Both in the "good" and the "bad" areas.

I would therefore appreciate if you are A BIT MORE CAREFUL, before making such remarks about me. Unless the word "humour" does not exist in your vocabulary.

As for my country performance, towards protection etc., I would like to see what Canada would have done, if it wasn't for that vast expanse of water between you and Europe. Nothing more than France I assume.

And one more thing. I understand that several of your compatriots gave their life in Europe. For all these brave men, we Europeans are thankful. But before speaking about your ancestors, just spend some moments thinking what MY ancestors gave to you.

Taking this opportunity, I want to apologize in advance, to any member whose sense of humour matches the one of Bob. No bad intentions in my previous post.

robertbank
12th February 2005, 09:36
I have an excellent sense of humour, Sir, it was yours which was in bad taste IMHO.

To suggest Canadians would have rolled over like the French did suggests you know nothing of this country. If you think we shirk our duties then look north of you to the Balkans. We have been donating our considerable talent to keep your backside safe for sometime and frankly as a Canadian I am getting a tad tired of seeing our tax dollars and young men frittered away keeping the inhabitants surroounding you from killiing each other off.

I am politely ignoring the fact that we spent a decade or two keeping you Greeks and Turks from doing the same thing on Cyprus!

OLDDEMO
12th February 2005, 11:09
John:

I took absolutely no offence to the remark -"What no machine guns".!! If it seems that we are over precautious - I have to admit it sounds "over the top" when one writes it down on paper - but it is better to be safe than sorry.
Maybe my experience in the military and law enforcement has made me jaundice. At any rate I had no intention of starting a third world war!!!!

John
12th February 2005, 12:01
OldDemo, thank you Sir. I knew that an American wouldn't be offended by that remark.

Big Sky Rancher
12th February 2005, 12:19
For defending from a preselected location my primary is this bedroom howitzer. It's loaded with 9 rounds of Federal Magnum 00 Buck.

clic pic

http://www.remington.com/images/firearms/1100_competition_master.jpg (http://www.remington.com/firearms/shotguns/1100_competition_master.htm)

I'd rather not go on the move or do any houseclearing if possible, but if the need arises I'd use this. It's loaded with 11 rounds of Winchester 230 grain Ranger T.

http://home.comcast.net/~capilla/TRP_OP_MUZZLE.JPG

OD*
12th February 2005, 12:49
OldDemo, thank you Sir. I knew that an American wouldn't be offended by that remark.

You're right, John.

Nikolai
12th February 2005, 12:54
John,
No offence taken here, either. However, it's a bit offensive that what was a joke, turned into an argument, and now a 'defense of my family/country history' match, so to speak.

Please take into consideration, Mr. Bank, that before continuing this 'chat' in the future, that John is the owner and operator of this forum, and without his time, effort, money, energy, contribution, and respect, you'd have no forum here to argue with him on. He's made his point, you've made yours. It's seen as a misunderstanding by everyone but yourself.

Absolutely NOBODY has the right to argue with John on his own forum.

Just my observation, however misplaced they may be. Keep safe, gentlemen.

-Nikolai


By the way.. Rem. 870 Super Magnum, 18 1/2 inch rifle sight'd barrel with 8 shot magazine, S&B 00 Buck is the primary defense weapon. This works great in my situation. Over penetration, retention, and maneuverability are all in my favor.

John
12th February 2005, 13:02
I have an excellent sense of humour, Sir, it was yours which was in bad taste IMHO.

To suggest Canadians would have rolled over like the French did suggests you know nothing of this country. If you think we shirk our duties then look north of you to the Balkans. We have been donating our considerable talent to keep your backside safe for sometime and frankly as a Canadian I am getting a tad tired of seeing our tax dollars and young men frittered away keeping the inhabitants surroounding you from killiing each other off.

I am politely ignoring the fact that we spent a decade or two keeping you Greeks and Turks from doing the same thing on Cyprus!
You are entitled to your opinion, as far as my sense of humour is concerned Bob. As you saw, the person directly concerned didn't take offence. Why you did? Your problem, not mine.

I totally agree with you Sir, you should not spend your ... talents or tax dollars on police actions in other countries. Whenever you do, we see deaths and ruins. No one appointed you (or anyone else for that matter) as the International Gendarme (Cop, for my American friends). So yes, please keep your ... talents and dollars. We would sincerely appreciate that.

Sticking with the site rules, I refrain from answering your remarks in more details. I admit I have a full page answer prepared, but you will not see it here, if you so want I can PM it to you.

One more thing. This time, you didn't get warned for talking politics, just because your remark was targeted at me, and I didn't want to exercise that right. Next time, you will.

John
12th February 2005, 13:07
Nikolai,

every one has every right to argue with me on this forums site, when rules are respected and when common sense arguments are used.

Just because I own this site, doesn't make me immune to arguments.

I want also to apologize, because I took the bate and responded to Bob's flaming remarks, the first time, instead of just warning him and being done with it. Too bad that we southern Europeans are a bit hot-blooded.

mr Hotgun
13th February 2005, 04:19
Here,s my solution to defend the house http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/mrhotgun/gayuk1.gif

Guns are normally forbidden overhere(Holland) and must be stored in a gunsafe etc

(Maybe a solution don,t react imidetly at a comment but wait 10 min than type a reply ,Every country has his own rules and humor ,whe have all the same hobby 1911 guns and love to talk about it )

robertbank
13th February 2005, 08:51
Point well taken. We all have our personal reasons for enjoying our shooting sports and owning our guns. We are all in for the fight of our lives to maintain privately owned firearms. In Canada, we are at the point where we seem to be at war with our own government to maintain our rights and traditions. What annoys me the most is the anti-gun crowd use our tax dollars to finance their efforts and we have to use our after tax income to fight for our rights.

Tom
13th February 2005, 12:17
In addition to the machine guns, I think one of these is essential:

http://www.skylighters.org/camphero/mtkclose.jpg

This was actually 16" gun installed at Montauk Point near the lighthouse to defend New York against U-Boats.

Just trying to add even more levity to this thread! :)


Tom

robertbank
13th February 2005, 12:46
Was this one of the 16" guns taken from one of the battleships that went down on Dec. 7? I heard they removed the guns after the attack.

N.Franklin
13th February 2005, 17:54
Arizona still has its guns from what I remember, havent lived in Hawaii since 03' and my memory usually only lasts about a week at best. Anywho, my primary is my SA GI with 2 Wilson 47D's full of 230 gr. Gold Dots; and Ive got a AK with two 30 round mags for backup in the closet. The dog stays in the cage at night since the house is new to her and she'll bless the floor if were not careful, otherwise shes normally at the foot of my bed and very good about waking me up when she hears stuff outside or in the house.

Tom
13th February 2005, 18:32
Was this one of the 16" guns taken from one of the battleships that went down on Dec. 7? I heard they removed the guns after the attack.

No. According to the website, these 16" guns were originally contracted by the Navy for a new class of battleship that didn't go into production. So these surplus guns were appropriated by the U.S. Army for use in fixed battlements like the one out on Montauk Point.

While it is possible that 16" guns from sunken battleships may have been recycled, more likely, if the gun was still salvageable, it would have been reused in the new Iowa-class battleships that were being built at that time.

The U.S.S. Arizona, by the way, had 14" guns.


Tom

John
14th February 2005, 01:02
In addition to the machine guns, I think one of these is essential:

http://www.skylighters.org/camphero/mtkclose.jpg

This was actually 16" gun installed at Montauk Point near the lighthouse to defend New York against U-Boats.

Just trying to add even more levity to this thread! :)


Tom
Somehow, I do not see that fit into my bedroom. Or my whole house actually. There, another reason to move out of the city, better defence tools!! LoL

Tom
14th February 2005, 09:51
John,

Can you picture one of these beauties nested in the hills overlooking Delphi, or inside the Temple of Poseidon? :)

I'm betting the makers of the movie The Guns of Navarrone had these little babies in mind.


Tom

John
14th February 2005, 12:15
Well, I am sure they had something similar in mind, that's for sure. How on earth did you remember that old movie? I guess we should have the same age more or less, 'cause I too remember it well. Time is passing LoL

Rgds

Tom
14th February 2005, 12:26
I'll be 37 in a few months. And the movie is a classic!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0054953/

BTW, John, I had a six-day lay-over in Greece back in '92 after our deployment to the Gulf. We docked in Piraeus and took some leave, staying at the King Minos in Athens. Greece is a very beautiful country - I wish I could have spent more time there.


Tom

mr Hotgun
14th February 2005, 12:51
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/mrhotgun/Greekgun.jpg

Something greek with a gun? and not the guns from Navarone
( it,s mentiond funny ,any comments i remove inmedatly )

hockey_78
14th February 2005, 13:48
I have a Remington 12ga with 6 3" mags.


Secondary is a 70lb Doberman Pinscher.

adam184
14th February 2005, 16:17
Firstly I too remember the gune of Navarone, and i'm only 27. Second you should all feel blessed that you are still allowed to defend your homes :mad: . My guns and ammo must be locked up seperatly by law. The Police can come and inspect my safe and firearms any time they like so I cannot leave them out :mad: . I am Currently making a quick access safe for under the bed to keep my .45 in but this is hardly the best situation. As for a Pump shotgun, they are restricted to farmers and other people :confused: who can convince the pollies to allow them to have such a hideous device. A M-4 or similar forget it in my dreams. The only private citizens who can have such things in Australia are licensed gun dealers, and a few theatrical armour's (movies, tv, etc)

santa
14th February 2005, 17:06
My main protection now, is a Mossberg 500 with 2 3/4 #7 pellets backed up with my P245 SIG.

KrisUSMC
15th February 2005, 00:58
I cant believe noone has a thunder-5 i love it, short barrel and a lotta punch, It also wont kill my brother in the other room and everybody else in the neighborhood as my M-4 would do. I just pray i dont have to use it one night because i'd be gettin a miracle-ear in the morning

mr Hotgun
15th February 2005, 02:08
My guns and ammo must be locked up seperatly by law. The Police can come and inspect my safe and firearms any time by Adam

So Australie is nothing different than Holland ,the same over here
My dog and a piece of wood must do the trick
crimminals are better protected than the civilian
When they break in and you hit them to hard ,they be out jail in a couple of days and you will be succeeded for manslaughter

santa
15th February 2005, 08:03
Could you explain what a thunder-5 is?

Nikolai
15th February 2005, 09:43
Greetings,

Thunder 5 is a shotgun, I believe. Not sure of anything else but that. :)

Have you tested your home defense loads into an example of your walls? 2 sheets of drywall or whatever they may be?

Something all of us should do, IMO. Over penetration is a big concern when others are in the house with us, and even more of a concern for those of us who are in a city environment. It's a bigger concern as an afterthought, though, fellas. We should all do what we can to test our walls (with a model, of course) for over penetration before choosing a home defense weapon/load. I'd hate, for myself or any of you, to be involved in such a situation, only to learn that the gun/load you thought would be fine, wasn't, and now you're in trouble.

Something to think about gentlemen. Best to you.

-Nikolai

KrisUSMC
15th February 2005, 13:27
it is a two inch barreled revolver that shoots 410 shells, only problem is only legal in 32 states check out thunder5.com its not pretty but it is very pleasent to shoot and i just had surgery 6 months ago on my wrist dont tell my doc im shooting yet

santa
15th February 2005, 18:04
Thanks for the info on the Thunder 5 Kris Usmc. I have heard of those before but never had the opp. to shoot one. Sounds like a neat little package.

I agree with Nikolai too about over penetration with larger buckshot shells. I only use bird or rabbit shot because of this situation. I used to load with double ought.

Runner
17th February 2005, 15:39
Mossberg 590A1 18.5 cylinder choke barrel 12 Gauge w/ 00 buck, and slugs in side saddle

jafa
10th March 2005, 20:14
Down stairs is my Kimber pro carry ten II
Up stairs is the springfield 1911, 12 Ga. pump shot gun, 30/30 lever ation.
Back up is a .22 revolver.

fierce_carrot
11th March 2005, 11:23
Primary home defense

1. Ninety five pound German Shephard and 80 pound black lab

2. Get by them, and a STI .45 wielded by me and .38 SW in the wifes hands will be greeting ya...

MontanaMike
12th March 2005, 01:38
This thread has been interesting reading, even if no surprises. I lean toward one of several 12-gauge guns with short, but legal barrels, long magazines, and standard length stocks, all backed up with several 1911-A1's at different locations in the house and my wife's Berretta SS 96 in .40 SW. The shotguns include two Mossbergs and one Remington, all of which I seemed to acquire with no real plan to do so, kind of like the 1911's. I use #6 shot in the 12-gauges as I now live in town. The 1911's work good on Gold Dot 230 gr JHP which also work good on small game.

In my vehicle, I tend to use a Ruger Vaquero in .45 Colt, mostly because I have used one version or another of that type of gun for plinking and hunting small game for a lot years and simply like the gun. Yup, I know it sounds irrational, but it works. I like to use the 1911-A1's for the same purposes. Decisions, decisions.

Interestingly enough, when I was a kid on the farm we had a number of firearms scattered around the house, not for self protection in particular, but day-to-day shooting of varmits after the chickens, plinking gophers, etc. Likewise, we usually carried at least one or two pistols and a long gun or two in the vehicles, again, mostly for casual plinking and shooting coyotes of which we did a lot in those days.

On three occasions, the guns were used for self defense. Once when a bum tried to break into our car with my mom, me and my brother all in the car, my mom pointed a .38 Colt at him and he left in a hurry. We boys were about 2 and 6 years old at the time. When I was about 12, five men tried to force their way into our farm house when I and my mother were home alone. She pointed a .22 Remington semi-auto rifle at the guy in front, point blank through the screen door, waist high, and they left in a hurry. Later that same year, we rented a house in town as the snow was so deep getting back and forth to school was a problem. One night as we were watching TV (this was in 1957 when we first got a TV), someone started peering in the window. Again, my mother's .38 came out and the guy let out a yell and made tracks for parts unknown. That was better than watching TV!

My Dad always gravitated to his 30/06 Springfield with a 19-inch barrel and K4 Weaver. He used to shoot down hawks that were flying away with our chicks. On the few occasions someone pulled up to our fuel tank to steal gasoline at night, one round fired into the air from the ought six pointed out the upstairs bedroom window got good results although one thief departed with the gas hose stuck in his car, ripping the hose out of the tank and spilling 50 or 60 gallons of gas before we could get there and shut the valve.

With the exception of a few hawks, coyotes, and warnings to gas thieves, a shot was not fired in any of the actual self-defense instances and the guns used are not what we now consider "good" defense weapons, but their very presence was highly effective. Of course, back in those days, we did not have to worry about someone on drugs and stopping power, but the lesson from those experiences is clear. The presence of the firearm in the hands of my mother averted potentially ugly incidents.

Big Sky Rancher
12th March 2005, 22:40
Nice read Mike. Welcome to the forum. :)

Dragracer Art
13th March 2005, 20:26
18.5" Mossberg 500, loaded with #1 Buck hangs above the bedroom door, "cruiser-ready"
On the nightstand is either a Glock 19 loaded with LE 124gr +P+ or GI 1911 loaded with 230gr Golden Sabre. There's also an AAC Ranger suppressed AR15 within reach. (Not that I'm paranoid or anything, but the gun safe is near the bed :D )

Dean Hoffmann
13th March 2005, 23:08
Mine and my wife's first choice for self defense are our Kimbers with 230gr hp ammo from Remington. More important is a defensive plan. We have a very good alarm system, (as well as two large dogs), and we both know what we are going to do if the alarm goes off, what positions we are going to take. We have practiced snap shooting,(dryfire with snapcaps) from the places we are likely to be in the house. To inject some realism if you will into the exercise, we draw and fire when a commercial for a particular car dealer comes on TV or the radio, so we never know when we will have to make a shot. If I ever do have to make a shot in our home, daylight or dark, I want the muscle memory to be there, and I want to feel like I've made the shot a thousand times. There have been a number of home invasion robberies here, and we refuse to be victims. Your brain is your greatest defensive weapon. Well, that's my 2 cents worth. Dean

John
13th March 2005, 23:16
There's also an AAC Ranger suppressed AR15 within reach.
Good thinking, in that way, you will not wake up the Mrs. LoL

Zydeco76
14th March 2005, 01:58
Next to my bed is a mossberg shotgun. Its has more bells and wistles than it needs. Pistol grip stock, lithium powered light, halosight, shell carrier. I keep birdshot chambered. In the tube I have reduced recoil buckshot. In the carrier I have slugs. I live out in the country. I have a large yard. With this I can engage pretty well indoors aswell as to the edge of my property. My 1911 is ofcourse right beside it. The other component is a 5 pound territorial terrier. She is very aggressive at night. There is no hiding from her. Between the shotgun and the dog I am about as ready as I am going to get.

Nikolai
14th March 2005, 02:12
Greetings,
Just curious, why the birdshot first round? Why buckshot for following shots?

-Nikolai

Zydeco76
14th March 2005, 12:47
You'll probably find this to be illogical. I don't want to kill anyone. I figure some birdshot low will likely stop most attackers. If they keep coming after that then I will follow up with 00B. Actually the gunsafe is next to my bed. When I go to bed I open the door. I can reach for my rifle pistol or shotgun with equal ease. The shotgun is what I am most likely to grab. The light on it is the most convenient flashlight for me to grab. It just happens to be attached to my shotgun. I am in no way recomending my system to anyone else. I just feel its right for me. That will likely change next week when I think I found something better.

Nikolai
14th March 2005, 14:58
Greetings,
Zydeco, it's logical, and the desire to NOT take a life is a sound one, I'd think all of us would agree here that taking a life, even in a defensive situation, is not wanted. Albeit, in the most unfortunate of times, it is sometimes necessary to defend and protect your own life, or the life of another.

Consider this.. if an armed person has entered your home, they're carrying that gun for a reason, which at the very least, is to cause you physical harm. If you were woken up in the middle of the night, noticed this figure, armed with a shotgun, walking down the hallway away from you. Would you reach for the shotgun as quietly as possible, so that you have the upper hand when he turns around and walks in your direction? Would you not wait until he turned around, but order him to drop his gun, and detain him at gunpoint until police arrived? If he was under the influence of drug and/or alcohol, his ability to sustain hits, both from man and firearm, would be increased greatly. Armed with a shotgun, his firepower would at the very least, match your own, but could very likely hold more than simple birdshot in it's chamber and magazine. So then, whom has the real upper hand? In all situations where a gun should be employed, it will be a "my life vs. their life" matter, if it isn't, no gun should be involved.

If he reacts to your gun, like you would react to his, then you'd find yourself in great danger. He wants, of course, to murder you before you have a chance to shoot him, ensuring his personal safety. Would you then wish you had more than birdshot to fire at him with, given the distinct possibility you'll have little opportunity to fire? You'd have no second chance, you have to have a first shot stop, or you would be dead, and the lives of those also in your house would be jeapordized, and perhaps, others outside of your house if the potential robber turned murderer would scare from murdering you, and shack up in a neighbors house to hide from police (ie hostages).

Yes this "scenario" is fairy-tale and farfetched as ever, but consider any situation where your life will be taken, or you will take another. If you knew you'd be in a gunfight (you have a HD weapon to defend yourself and your home, so any trespass towards either would ensure your HD weapon be used), why wouldn't you want the most effective firearm and ammunition you can?
Something to think about. Potentially putting your life in jeapordy because you don't want to kill someone who is trying to kill you, to me, is silly, but a natural feeling that can't be faulted. I do urge you to reconsider the value you hold for your life and others.

-Nikolai

Zydeco76
15th March 2005, 13:34
Thats a spooky scenario Nickoli. I guess if it came down to one shot and he has a shotgun too then I would be in trouble. That is why I practice. I have practiced moving through multiple targets with a shotgun since I was a 12. I can hit the same target with my pump 2.5 times per second. Thats why I use the reduced recoil shells. You make a valid point. It has been my experience that once somebody takes a "non-fatal" round there ability to accurately return fire is somewhat reduced for a few seconds. If my target is holding a longarm I am going to continue shooting him until he is no longer holding that weapon. The fact is the odds are pretty slim that I will ever have to shoot somebody. All I can do is prepare myself for the possibility to a degree that still allows me to live a fruitful life. If somebody comes at me with a plan. Or any of you with a well thought out plan the odds are very much in their favor.

Regardless of the firepower we possess. The training that we have. The steps we have taken. If the bad guy has a plan. He can account for all these things. At some point we must find a balance between defending our lives and enjoying our lives. I happen to find great enjoyment in the martial arts "arts fit for war". Shooting boxing knife traing etc... I can be taken out as easily as anyone else if the bad guy has the initiative and the intel. All I can do hope that he does not have a plan. That he is simply desparate and snuck through a window hoping to find a helpless victim. If I can get the intiative for one second then all my training and practice can be brought to bare. For every defencive measure that we can devise there is a countermeasure. I feel I am in a good postion to deal with my most likely threats. (a meth head) If its a professional I am screwed. I do enjoy the speculation though.

taino21
15th March 2005, 20:51
Mossberg 500A ported barrel w/00 buck, gunsmith did an excellent job, Magna Ported Para Ordnance P14 45 LDA. :D

Nikolai
15th March 2005, 22:42
Thats a spooky scenario Nickoli. I guess if it came down to one shot and he has a shotgun too then I would be in trouble. That is why I practice. I have practiced moving through multiple targets with a shotgun since I was a 12. I can hit the same target with my pump 2.5 times per second. Thats why I use the reduced recoil shells. You make a valid point. It has been my experience that once somebody takes a "non-fatal" round there ability to accurately return fire is somewhat reduced for a few seconds. If my target is holding a longarm I am going to continue shooting him until he is no longer holding that weapon. The fact is the odds are pretty slim that I will ever have to shoot somebody. All I can do is prepare myself for the possibility to a degree that still allows me to live a fruitful life. If somebody comes at me with a plan. Or any of you with a well thought out plan the odds are very much in their favor.

Regardless of the firepower we possess. The training that we have. The steps we have taken. If the bad guy has a plan. He can account for all these things. At some point we must find a balance between defending our lives and enjoying our lives. I happen to find great enjoyment in the martial arts "arts fit for war". Shooting boxing knife traing etc... I can be taken out as easily as anyone else if the bad guy has the initiative and the intel. All I can do hope that he does not have a plan. That he is simply desparate and snuck through a window hoping to find a helpless victim. If I can get the intiative for one second then all my training and practice can be brought to bare. For every defencive measure that we can devise there is a countermeasure. I feel I am in a good postion to deal with my most likely threats. (a meth head) If its a professional I am screwed. I do enjoy the speculation though.

Greetings,
That post was meant to induce thought, not so much "reality," and it very well did. You're correct, in all points, Zydeco. The benefit to such "what if" scenarios, is that it allows us to step back, review ourselves, and make changes if necessary. On the other hand, it also reinforces the thought that we've made the correct decision. For this reason, I enjoy them also.

-Nikolai

MontanaMike
16th March 2005, 00:03
Hello to Nikolai and Zydeco,

Your discussion is very interesting. I currently live in a home where an intruder will probably be no more than 15 to 20 feet from me if they get in the door or window before I stop them, or a similar distance in the yard if I am at a door or window. I live in a 1950's neighborhood with other homes either directly across the street or less than 30-40 feet distant on the same side of the street. My thought in using #6 shot is that in distances between 15 and 20 feet, it is arguably as effective as anything else in a 12-gauge, but if I miss or accidently shoot through a wall or window, it is not likely to hurt anyone in the surrounding homes or on the street.

If I were in my former rural environment, I would go back to a slug backed with 00 buckshot for one precise shot, perhaps at distances up to 100 feet if the intruder is armed with a gun, followed by the buckshot for less precise work if things get hurried or closer or both. If things start close (in the rural environment), it will not take long to dispense with the slug (1st shot) and get on with things using buckshot.

I would add, that both scenarios above envision shooting at night in low light conditions where the 1911 may not be as effectively aimed as the shotgun, yet I recognize some limitations in using the longer gun in cramped quarters. I believe familiarity with my environment compensates for that and the shotgun will likely be more accurate in the initial situation although it is fairly hard to miss anything with the 1911 at those distances. The shotgun is certainly more intimidating unless the intruder is on drugs. If the initial defense somehow starts with the intruder at or near the foot of the bed (unlikely with our dog), the 1911 will definitely come into play first.

What is your opinion of these strategies? Again, this is just game planning.

MontanaMike

Nikolai
16th March 2005, 00:24
Greetings, Mike.
It is always important to consider fields of fire, as well as what is beyond your home, as well as inside of it, in all directions in case of over penetration. I live in a suburban area, with very close neighbors, fortunately, over penetration isn't something I need to worry about, but it's still in the mind. You're correct, as Zydeco was, in assuming that given short distances, any normal shotgun round will be useful and effective, albeit possibly not as lethal as other rounds, such as slug or 00 buck. Birdshot in all cases SHOULD be enough to stop a threat. That is assuming the sound and sight of a shotgun isn't intimidation enough. With shotgun power, I doubt any impact to the chest will NOT stop, or at the very least, slow a threat. Even with bird shot, chances are that will buy you enough time to rack another shell into the chamber and continue as necessary. Pain is pain, and a well placed birdshot round will do plenty of damage within those somewhat short ranges, Mike. The overwhelming majority of burglars aren't interested in anything you have in your house when there is a chance of coming under fire. If something is wanted that badly, they're likely to do it while the house is empty. I think your strategy is spot on for your environment, for what it's worth. I do (and suggest also, if you have not) have my bedside pistols loaded with 230 grain JHPs, HydraShoks in my case. Those are also my last resort for home defense, my Rem. 870 with 00 buck is my primary, and has been modified to better allow maneuverability within my home. This is my personal choice, and by no means is the "only choice." Being since over penetration isn't a problem in my situation, I can safely afford to use that specific load in my 870, that said, my choice was made because should I ever come into a situation where I need a single shot neutralization, I want to be confident that it'll be there.

Of course, all this is moot without proper planning, and training. As always, there's no need to go about your house when you know there's an armed intruder, sweeping room to room with any weapon. In some states, this will ruin your case for self defense should lethal force be needed. The best plan, is to have a proper plan to get all members of your household safely into a central room (large enough so that there is plenty of room to move about, and also must have a secondary exit.. a window, for example), and proper firepower to protect all those involved, whether that firepower is used to peaceably end a situation, or to take a life. I pray none of us will ever have to employ either, but both should exist. Without one, the other is useless.

-Nikolai

MontanaMike
16th March 2005, 09:36
Nikolai,

Thanks for your response. It makes good sense. By the way, I do keep either Remington or Gold Dot 230 gr JHP in the 1911. Haven't tryed HydraShoks yet, but know from experience both the Remington and Gold Dot give good penetration which, in my experience in shooting game with low velocity cartridges, is second in importance only to shot placement, particularly since low velocity bullets do not create the "shock" of a high-velocity rifle round, despite all the advertising and gun magazine hype we read these days. I will try the HydraShok in the future, afer I save up enough gallon jugs.

MontanaMike

BQ87
18th March 2005, 10:30
PRIMARY: 2 big dogs that bark at anything and would love to get the garbage man because he is stealing "Their Stuff" SECONDARY: If they are able to get inside the yard or house past my primary I take the Ultra II with laser grips and other half takes the Mossberg 500 with OO buckshot

Rainman 92019
20th March 2005, 11:16
1911 (pick one) and 12-gauge at condition 2. Condition 1 when carrying.

I have a child, and the weapons are secured, but condition one for me doesn't make me comfortable unless I have it at arms reach.

zpanzerdaddy
21st March 2005, 13:12
Mine is a Benelli pump 12ga loaded with 00buck. The h&k usp tactical sits in the nightstand just in case. However my first line of defense is my huge german shepherd. That seems to take care of most any wanna be intruders.

wcmaas
21st March 2005, 17:37
A full size "Chuck" Daly 1911 with 230gr hardball until my ParaOrd loosens up. Gotta shoot more... Yeah!

Mitrod3
23rd March 2005, 12:26
dog.....not big, but early warning dog....and jaws like a vice, along with TLE II .45 or GP100 .357, whichever is reached first in different parts of house.

be safe, shoot well. :cool:

Hiram325
26th March 2005, 11:24
Mossberg 590 Mariner, 8 rds of L.E. #4 shot in the tube, empty chamber. Also a Glock 21 in condition 1 for the capacity close by.

Scetch
10th April 2005, 12:42
1. Two dogs 60 and 80 pounds lots of bark and attitude.
2. Mossberg 500 with #4 (If it comes to needing a one shot stop I will simply aim higher) I do need to worry about overpenetration + I have back-up 00 if I need it. Condition 3 (I firmly believe in that universal sound of deterence)
3. S&W 1911SC .45 Condition 1
4. Glock 22 .40 cal Condition 1
5. The wife has a Walther P99 by S&W 9mm Condition 3. If all that doesnt work she can talk em to death.
6. With the familiarization I have with my own home, a light isnt necessary. Darkness is my ally not my enemy.

Tom
10th April 2005, 14:35
6. With the familiarization I have with my own home, a light isnt necessary. Darkness is my ally not my enemy.

Ah, spoken like a true Marine. :)

Truth is, in your own home you are (or should be) on familiar ground - and most times the BG isn't. Using a light can tell the BG more about you that it can tell you. It's why Navy ships (and here's the squid in me) rarely use their RADAR or radio equipment. EMCON is strictly enforced because those emissions often tell the enemy more about you than they tell you about the enemy.

I agree with keeping the lights off and not use a flashlight or tactical light.


Tom

Zydeco76
10th April 2005, 16:50
Hmm I sorta agree with the darkness thing in a combat environment. Personally I want a possitive ID on the target. Hate to shoot my brother or a lost foreign exchange student.

OLDMARINE57
10th April 2005, 17:01
Primary: Remington 870 Slug Gun /00buck
Secondary: one of several .45s placed in designed areas of the house.
Early warning system : a couple of red nosed pits.

Farmer
10th April 2005, 19:35
I'm surprised more people here don't use their 1911 as their #1 HD weapon. I agree that a short barreled pump or auto is the ideal for close combat, but i think the .45 is more versatile. With a scattergun, you are losing nearly half your number of rounds and you still have to put them COM. A handgun and tactical light also will give a longer range and the ability to blind an opponent. not to mention easier handling.
Of course I'm biased because I live in the country. And my shotgun has a 28" (30?-don't remember) bbl.- talk about ungainly!

PS it does have the cyl. choke and 5 rnds of 00 Buck in, just in case

Dean Hoffmann
10th April 2005, 20:31
I have to agree with maintaining the darkness in a combat environment, at least in my case. It is only my wife and I, and we have rehearsed the things that go bump in the night scenario. If the dogs aren't barking the bump is probably my wife, but if she isn't in bed and the alarm system goes off, I'm going to assume a defensive posture and wait for the situation to clarify.

Sharp Shooter
15th April 2005, 11:06
mossberg 500, loaded with BBB, or my .38 stub nose in the dresser.

Dave Swaffield
18th April 2005, 14:52
Folks,
At the risk of sounding a wimp, I have a loaded nickle-plated S&W #36 Chief's Special on top of the stove, but a S&W #637 is my carry piece 24/7. Long guns in the safe, but the youngest son has a 4" model 19 next to his bed (locked up when he leaves.)
Semper fi,
Dave Swaffield

tpichet
18th April 2005, 19:27
Early warning system: 3 dogs. 2 small ones roaming the ground floor. 1 big one sleeping in the bedroom.

If they get past that without waking the entire neighborhood (small dogs with big attitude and loud voices so watch your ankles and ears if you try to break in), the wife will respond with a Walther P99 9mm. I'll grab whatever is closest but that will usually be a SA 1911 with lasergrips for target tracking. Other options are 12 and 20 gauge shotguns. Looking at getting a Thompson subgun too just to keep it interesting... :)

Sifu
18th April 2005, 19:47
My primary home defense is an ADT Burglary, Fire & Carbon Monoxide security system and the same weapon I carry everyday, a 1911 within arm's reach of the bed. I do my best work at night ...

Regards

TommyC
23rd April 2005, 20:19
Depends on the situation. If my wife and I are in bed, we would most probably go into "hunker down in the bedroom" mode with the Winchester 1200 Riot model 12 ga loaded with 5 rounds of Federal Premium Turkey Shot (#4 Shot) and a cordless & cell phone to call for help. The reason for this load is that I actually did build walls and shoot them, and buck shot blew right through them! I decided this was the best compromise load. If we are not both in the bedroom, there are a couple of 1911's around the house that we both feel very comfortable with. It is just us two which makes it easier. No kids to worry about. I think the most important part is that we are both on the same page. We have discussed it and planned how to react.

dartman
26th April 2005, 08:01
I do have Imperial Def. 1911A1 8 rnds/mag. I hate shooting birds. :) Good day!

coulter6
2nd May 2005, 14:32
Mossberg 590 pump next to the bed and Para-Ord C745 in the night stand.

arizona
4th May 2005, 03:10
Smith and Wesson modell 66 2.5 inch barrel and a winchester 94. Proven weapons and simple to boot. ;)

horse 91-A1
7th May 2005, 10:27
Claymores and trip wires take care of my 00 B fetish. :D

Bob

marksman28
8th May 2005, 03:32
my colt M4a1 with ACOG scope.


marksman28

1911Tuner
8th May 2005, 07:32
Four big Collies that greet everybody at the door...and they won't let anybody in until I tell'em to.. :cool:
(Don't let the "Lassie" image fool ya...Collies are territorial. They were bred to herd sheep and fend off Wolves. They have the same bite pressure as a German Shepherd.)

Two Labs and a Pit out in the lot that provide the Collies with the first alert.

A Yorkie, a Sheltie, and a Scottish Terrier mix that make sure the Collies don't
miss the first alert.

A two-shoot coach gun stoked with #4 Buck to make sure nobody hurts my dogs.

Any takers? :D

TheProf-TX
8th May 2005, 22:19
I feel undergunned. :) I have a Colt Trooper wheel gun with 38+P defense rounds. It is something my wife can handle and I am very accurate with it. Since I live in town I do not want to shoot the neighbors. The pistol and speed loaders (along with a tac-light) are in a push button box by the bad that I can open with my eyes closed.

Otherwise in my shop I have a hi-cap S&W 9mm in another lock box.

Joni Lynn
9th May 2005, 09:48
Double barrel shotgun, barrel of short but legal length and loaded with standard trap loads. Sig 226 near bed loaded with 15 rounds of Fed Hydrashok. (9mm)

doubleaes2
27th May 2005, 21:36
Mossberg 500, nine shots reduced recoil 00 buck. 1911 on the nightstand, 230g hydrashocks.

OD*
29th May 2005, 10:39
Tuner,

Of all the dogs you mentioned, I'd take on the Pit first.
Regardless of their portrayal in the media, most (not all) are love monsters. Our Pit is absolutely worthless as a guard dog, unless you would happen to be after the couch, bed, or her favorite chair, she might fight you for those.

http://gunpix.com/gallery%2FMiscellaneous%5Fand%5FOddities%2FLazyDog %2Ejpg

1911Tuner
29th May 2005, 11:10
ROFL OD...That looks like one real killer dog. I agree. Pits that have been raised with a gentle hand are about as close to teddy bears as you can get.
"Little Man" however, can be a bit different when it comes to me or mine. I picked him up on the side of the road when he was about 2 months old...so badly starved that you could count every bone in his body. After me savin' his bacon, he's decided that my fight is his fight. If no threatening move is made, he's a goofy puppy that wouldn't hurt a worm...unless you're game enough to invite him to play. The rougher you get, the better he likes ya...and you'll give up long before he does...but put your hands on me where he can see it, and he'll climb a 6-foot chain link fence. His favorite thing is small children...He gets completely stupid over kids. :rolleyes: The smaller they are, the more gentle he gets.

robertbank
29th May 2005, 11:30
I am happy you boys enjoy your Pits but what you have described are exactly what every Pit owner says after their dog has ripped the face off off a young child. Sorry but the breed should be banned and in many places has been. I hope you folks got lots of insurance because if your dogs snaps you will need it.

OD*
29th May 2005, 11:36
You rescued a Pit?
I respected you before, much more so now.
Yes sir, it is all in how they are handled. We had a male reverse brindle some years back, "Bad Oscar" was a little more standoffish to strangers than Buffy is, but a sweet and gentle dog. He just "looked" mean.
http://gunpix.com/gallery%2FMiscellaneous%5Fand%5FOddities%2FBad%20O scar%2Ejpg

http://gunpix.com/gallery%2FMiscellaneous%5Fand%5FOddities%2FMe%20%2 6%20Oscar%2Ejpg

You may enjoy this site;
http://furryfriendsfoundation.com/Truth03/Truth03.htm

OD*
29th May 2005, 11:41
Well Bob, it's folks like you, that give the breed a bad name. We should ban guns or maybe people after the next mass shooting.

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

1911Tuner
29th May 2005, 17:54
I am happy you boys enjoy your Pits but what you have described are exactly what every Pit owner says after their dog has ripped the face off off a young child. Sorry but the breed should be banned and in many places has been. I hope you folks got lots of insurance because if your dogs snaps you will need it.

Robert, you seem to have had a bad experience with a Pit somewhere along the line. Sorry to lay waste to a belief, but I've been around Pits for most of 30 years, and I've never known one to turn on anyone unless abused. Other dogs? Beware of Pits. They fight because they like to fight...not because they're trained to. It's bred into the dogs like herding is bred into Collies. I know that here are some bad ones out there, but there are mostly very good ones. I've got a good one. Most of the bad ones are either due to mishandling or inbreeding...but that can be said of any breed. The most vicious dog that I've ever known, hands down, was a Cocker Spaniel, and one of the most gentle was a 140-pound Rott who thinks he's a lap dog. I've seen the owner's grandkids ride him like a pony, with never so much as a show of teeth. The secret is in knowing your breeder.

My little Pit has been thoroughly tested for any sign of aggression toward
people...in situations where I'm not involved as a "victim". I've had people reach toward his food while he was eating...sneak up behind him and grab his ears and actually pull him away from the bowl. His tail never stops wagging.
A harsh word sends him into a corner to cower and beg for forgiveness. I've
let perfect strangers into the lot with him, and he makes friends immediately,
showing submissiveness when they approach him. Only a direct threat toward me or the family will bring a show of aggression...but even the Collies will do that.

Whenever somebody asks me if my dog(s) will bite, my standard answer is:
"All dogs will bite if you push the right buttons. It's pretty much up to you."

Respect the dog's space...ANY dog...until you've gotten aquainted. Once the ice has been broken on the dog's terms, you've got little to fear from a properly bred and properly handled dog. People who walk straight up to a dog
that doesn't know them are subject to the dog's rules of engagement, and they very often learn the hard way that not all dogs trust all people.

If a stranger who smelled funny walked up to you and put his hands on you...
what would YOUR first reaction be?

robertbank
29th May 2005, 18:59
1911Tuner

Nope mo personal experiences with me. Just get tired of seeing pictures of some small child with a face torn up by a pit bull whose owners say " THe dog is always really good around children etc." The breed has a well deserved reputation. Own one if you will but have lots of insurance.

To equate the attack by Pit Bulls with gun legislation is silly and not worthy of comment.

ps Love dogs and have owned one all my life.

Here is a link to just one site:

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2004/10/15/pitbulls_ontario041015.html

I think banning the breed will be impossible to enforce but licensing them at a $1,000 a pop probably would be.

There are other sites with similar messages.

OD*
29th May 2005, 19:08
And we owners just get tired of seeing ignorant statements made by people who haven't a clue as to what they are talking about. Yep, APBTs are the ONLY breed to bite humans. You're regurgitating the same ol' myths and outright lies.

"there are two kinds of opinions you can have....those you are entitled to...and those you are not." - Jeff Cooper

and dealing with people of your mentality;

“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again – expecting a different result.” - Albert Einstein



Ignorance can be educated, stupidity is forever.

robertbank
29th May 2005, 19:20
Nothing ignorant about my statement and I am surprised at your reaction. Own one if you will. Your dog goes nuts one day and maims a child, it is you who has to live with it not me.

OD*
29th May 2005, 19:32
Your dog goes nuts one day and maims a child,


Good lord, and you thought my gun comparison was stupid. You are truly showing your ignorance of the breed.
Have heard that very same nonsense for years about Rots and Dobies.

Kerwin
29th May 2005, 23:21
im not a pitbull lover myself, but after witnessing an illegal dog fight, i feel sorry for these dogs. Dogs fight to please their masters, and it just happened that pitbulls are great fighters.

If i am to buy a pitbull, its gonna be a big lap dog.

I have a couple of mongrels that i would not trade for an expensive pure bred dog.

my mongrels for first line of defence? nah, theyd just bark and run... but enough to warn me something is not right. My armscor 1911 is within easy reach.

robertbank
29th May 2005, 23:27
Back to the word ignorance. Well sir if you think pit bulls are harmless then you nothing of their history. I am not inclined to say you are stupid given I don't know you but you exhibit all the qualities. Keep your pit bull love it to death and I hope it never attacks a young child for your sake. Don't tell me I am ignorant of the breed when you know nothing of what I know or don't know.

Ignorance works both ways.

Hawkmoon
29th May 2005, 23:44
Gentlemen

May I remind you that the rules of this forum call for polite discussion. Name calling and personal insults are not welcome and do not lead to a constructive exchange of ideas or information.

Since arguments about pit bulls and their temperment is pretty much off-topic for this forum, I'm sorry but I am closing this thread.