1911 Commerical - Canadian issued

[jagsport]

I recieved a Goverment model 1911 made in 1914- It is 98% or better.
Amazing ! - SERIAL NUMBER C-139xx. It came with a correct USGI issued manual ( guys shooting off horseback ) and it has signed names of soiliders ( I assume ) inside the main cover. My research on this gun is as follows :

"The pistols acquired for the First Contingent of the Canadian Expeditionary Force were once more obtained from Colt: this time, the handgun adopted was that company's "state-of-the-art" Model 1911 semi-automatic pistol. A total of 5000 were acquired, all coming from Colt's 1914 "Commercial" production and thus having a beautiful high-polish "oven-blue" finish, with finely checkered walnut grips." This is a direct copy from (www.canadiansoliders.com ) web page - from there weapons tab.....

If I can prove this providence of 1of 5000 through a Colt Letter - should I pursue it. Does it help it's collectabilty ?

Should I research the names of the soliders to further the value of the gun ?
Thanks
John

[mayagrafix]

My Government model has a six digit number (C118xxx) and I figure a 1927 production year. From what I've gleamed about .45's is that the military models are more desirable because of the multiple proof marks that the commercial models don't have, and that a military model with battle experience is 11 on a top ten list. Any M1911 with a letter of authenticity from Colt is more valuable, but it's gonna cost you 100 smackers. Are there any photos of the previous owner in uniform, or can a relative relate the story of the pistol? (and maybe willing to put in writing?). That would also help in lieu or in addition to a letter from Colt.

Maybe if this regiment saw action in Gallipoli you could really have something, me thinks.

PS: POST A PICTURE ;)

[exitwounds]

Serial Number C-139xx is too high to be part of the Canadian procurement. The 5,000 pistol procurement was sn ranges:
Sep 11, 1914 1,000 C3000-8400
Sep 24, 1914 300 C5400-C8700
Sep 29, 1914 300 C8000-C9500
Sep 30, 1914 100 C8500- C9700
Oct 1, 1914 180 C8500-C9700
Oct 2, 1914 120 C5700-C9700
Shipped to Gov't of Canada, dept. of Militia & Defense, c/o J. Wesley, Waddington, NY
3,000 more were shipped to HW Brown, Quebec, Canada for a total of 5,000.
Oct 31, 1914 1,000 C7900-11400
Nov 7, 1914 1,000 C9800-C12700
Nov 14, 1914 1,000 C11100-C13500

Are there any unit markings or officer's name on it?

[mayagrafix]

Great info, exitwounds. C-139xx just misses the last batch from Nov. 1914. However, it does confirm jagsport initial remark about being a 1914 pistol. Maybe C-139xx was purchased privately by one of the regiments officers?

[exitwounds]

Because of urgent need they did not recieve the Canadian inspection/acceptance stamps, but many are known to have officer's names and unit markings according to Clawson.

[jagsport]

No names - no unit markings - but again I have the miltary issued manual with names of the group / division inside- there is no doubt that it came from Canada and I am sure that if Canadians proofed there guns it is not a listed parctice ( as exported ) from the US. I cannot find it anyways.
With regards to commericals vs. non miltary I respectfully disagree that war pedigree has some intrinsic value that supersedes condition on 45's., For example A 1911 commerical made in 1914 in 98% will out sell a 1911 made in 1927 in 50% condition - BLUE BOOK -
The issue or rarity (not war participation ) would only precede condition of a 1911 like a Navy for example.

[exitwounds]

You may be interested in Clive Law's book, "CANADIAN MILITARY HANDGUNS, 1855-1985". There is mention of the 5,000 pistol shipment. Is your magazine marked? Spare magazines supplied to the Canadian Gov't were marked with a "C" and inside the C was an arrow, know as the C-broad arrow. That same mark was found on later pistols at the rear left of the slide and below the inspector stamp (Colt M1911A1 Canadian Lend-Lease 930,000 - 936,000 in 1943 for a total of 1,515 pistols).

[jagsport]

Thanks - you caught me on this issue - it did not come with a magazine - I purchased a correct type ( with Lanyard ) but it is not orginal.
Thanks for the lead on the book.

[mayagrafix]

As far as I know Government Models do not have a lanyard. Also a pre A1 model magazine comes in two tones. Here is a pix of a manual I bought last week. It is dated from 1964 - 40 years plus! Me thinks you would have more luck selling the Manual with the signatures as a collectors item with the pistol as added value ;)

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/mayagrafix/Manaul1964.jpg

[Johnny Peppers]

The Colt Government Model did indeed come with lanyard loop magazines up to the WWI period. None were issued with the early exposed base magazines, but were issued with the "Keyhole" magazines. The magazines remained two tone in the Government Model right up to the 1940 time period.

[bgiven]

My 1912 early 3 digit serial number Gov't came with two original keyhole 2 tone lanyard loop mags.... Since I am not overly familiar with Gov't models, where might one
research this old girl..... I have ordered a Colt letter, thru a friend, but that was 4 months ago....It is British proofed, Birmingham pre-1916.... but thats all I know at this point. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[jagsport]

I have the two tone with Lanyard -
Thanks for the feedback - if I learn how to post a picture I will next time

[mayagrafix]

Good to know that the GM came with a Lanyard and 2 tone mags up untill WWI Sr. Peppers. BTW, What is a keyhole magazine?

[exitwounds]

On the back of the magazine there will be a punched out hole and cut (or slot) referred to as a "keyhole" due to it's shape and was found on GM until about sn C3500, and military pistols after about sn 4500 through about 40000. The cut (or slot) and hole were added to add more flex to the tube, to prevent cracking at the feed mouth. A better type of metal was used eventually and stopped the need to add the key hole modification.