Dry Fireing

[user426]

I've watched this site for a while now and finally took the plunge .....I got my first 1911, a slightly used series 80 that looks to be in brand new condition....since I am a noobe to 1911's I have many questions....the top of the list is ...is it harmful to dry fire a 1911...if so what damage does it do....thanks for having a great site

[John]

Welcome on board, I am sure you will enjoy the staying.

No, dry fire your Colt to your hearts desire. Unless you do it 500 times a day, every day, for years, I do not see any problem with that.

[user426]

Thanks for the quick response....another quick question ....what are the most reliable after market mags....I'm not looking for hi capacity.... (I'm in NY and no mags over 10 rounds are allowed)..... just looking for reliable 7 or 8 rounds that drop nice and easy...

[Capt. Wortz]

I've had best luck with Chip McCormick 8 round mags.

[user426]

I've had best luck with Chip McCormick 8 round mags.

Great..I actually ordered a couple from a gunbroker auction....

[ccwnow]

Thanks for the quick response....another quick question ....what are the most reliable after market mags....I'm not looking for hi capacity.... (I'm in NY and no mags over 10 rounds are allowed)..... just looking for reliable 7 or 8 rounds that drop nice and easy...

Check out http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=1959,
lots of good info and debate. Also, might want to do a search
for 'metalform'.

[Dave Simpson]

Wilson Combat mags are good too.

[seminole]

There are a number of good mags out there. When it comes to things like this
I like to see what the people who make their living with their guns are using.
You will find that more pro competitors use McCormick shooting star mags than
all other brands combined. As far as I'm concerned the case is closed.

[ccwnow]

The McCormick Shooting Star mags I've tried were the worst of the high-end mags I ever tried in my 3 1911's. Just my personal limited experience, I'm sure many have a good experience with McCormicks. Pro's get paid to use a particular brand and then get mags and guns that are custom tuned to work together, something I don't have the option to do.

[warmrain]

The one thing about the CMC magazines is that they should not be used in alloy framed 1911s as the non-skirted followers gouge the feed ramp as the last round leaves the magazine.

The skirted followers of the Wilsons (and the Ed Brown's too IIRC) don't do this.

[John]

I've tried one old Shooting Star 8-rounder and it worked fine. I've tried two (early production) Wilson 47D and they didn't work in my gun. The only magazine that I've tried, which has worked consistently, both in .45 ACP and 9mm, is the Mec-Gar ones. Very nice magazines, either in the version with the removable floor plate or the standard one.

Another name you may want to try is Metalform, but I do not remember which particular model is held in high esteem here.

[Kilroy6644]

I always use the magazines that came with the gun, and I've never had any problems. Of course, that's only three, but three out of three isn't bad, I think. And they're just the plain old original style 7-rounders.

[SpeedRacer]

I've tried one old Shooting Star 8-rounder and it worked fine. I've tried two (early production) Wilson 47D and they didn't work in my gun. The only magazine that I've tried, which has worked consistently, both in .45 ACP and 9mm, is the Mec-Gar ones. Very nice magazines, either in the version with the removable floor plate or the standard one.

Another name you may want to try is Metalform, but I do not remember which particular model is held in high esteem here.

I agree about MecGar mags. My first trip to the range with the Colt I decided to buy a couple 8-rounders, plus I wanted something with a base pad. I asked the shop owner what the real difference between the MecGar and Wilson mags was, to which he replied "about $20". :D

The MecGar has performed flawlessly so far through about 300 rounds. I plan on picking up a couple more, unless anyone has a good reason not to (like the frame gouging issue).

[John]

The MecGar has performed flawlessly so far through about 300 rounds. I plan on picking up a couple more, unless anyone has a good reason not to (like the frame gouging issue).

The MecGars I have won't scratch any frame, their follower is not the one with the two prongs, there is no chance that this will happen.

[Blasterboy]

426,
If "dry practice" (dry fire is an oxymoron.!) were harmful to the weapon, than I doubt we would have the Steel Challenge or IPSC shooters that we all enjoy watching. NO, dry practicing with your 1911 10-15 minutes a day, twice a week will do no damage to piece. This is some sort of "old wives tale" that started generations ago.

[DHC]

Wilson Combat mags are good too.
I agree. All I've ever used are Wilsons without a single issue. I have 6 8-round and 2 10-round.

I'm looking at an STI in .40 S&W and have been told to stick with Tripp Research mags tuned for the STI. Heard great things about the Tripp mags as a whole.

[Blasterboy]

Another brand of magazines that need to be mentioned is Metalform. They are very consistent to specifications and always "drop-free". It has been mentioned that they private label the "Colt factory" magazines.

[1911Tuner]

Dry-firing a 1911 does cause a couple of negative things to occur.
Since the inertial firing pin doesn't have a positive stop...except the primer
when it's firing live...the pin moves far enough to let the spring compress into coil bind, which shortens the life of the spring. Also be aware that all firing pin springs aren't created equal. Some are short enough...notably OEM springs in Series 80 Colts...that they can let the firing pin move deep enough in the port to make pretty hard contact and open up the port or raise a slight burr around the edges.

A larger opening leads to primer flow into the port, and the burr can cause
3-point jam failures to return to battery. For heavy dry-fire practice, I would recommend a shortened firing pin and a spring intended just for the exercise...and changing them back out when the session is over.

The simplest thing to do is to drill a primer flash hole out nice and big, seat a bullet in the case, and squirt enough silicone bathtub caulk through the enlarged primer hole to fill the case and
the primer hole flush with the rim. Makes for a long-lasting snap cap that cushions and stops the pin short.

[Frank]

I think 1911Tuner's advice is good. Occasional, limited dry firing probably won't do any real harm, but if you're planning on an extended dry practice session, using a snap cap is cheap insurance. It's also not a bad idea to change firing pin springs every couple of thousand rounds and use good ones like Wolff.

And dry practice will do a lot (without the expense of ammunition and range fees) to improve your shooting. IMHO 10 or 15 minutes every so often, if done thoughtfully and with discipline, can do more for your trigger control and draw stroke than sending 200 rounds down range (although I'll agree that it's not as much fun).

I do this on a regular basis, and it really helps. I do make double sure that my piece is unloaded and that there is no ammunition in the area. And I remember rule two and don't let my muzzle cover anything that I'm not willing to destroy.

All that seems obvious, and I am not suggesting that you don't already know do that. But I've heard of some very nasty things happening during "dry" practice as a result of a momentary lapse of attention.

As to magazines, I like McCormick Shooting Star, Wilson 8 rounds and Metalform. I'm sure there are other good ones, but those have worked well for me.

DVC

[Blasterboy]

1911 tuner,
May I encourage to read my original post again. Although I do not disagree with your assertions with regard to the damage that can occur to the firing pin port, spring etal with excessive dry firing....I do think you took my comments out of context to build your case for what this type of dry practice can produce, which was not the gest of my post. I might also suggest that you reread "Frank's" post. It tends to corroborate the theme of my original post. Thank you, Frank......

[John]

I think that all 1911Tuner did, was to explain to us what his 50 years of experience has shown him. It's not an old wives tale, it's something that can happen. It takes a lot of practicing though, but it can happen and I've seen it happening. That's why my answer was what it was.

[Frank]

I've read a bunch of 1911Tuner's posts in the brief time I've been on this Forum, and I have very high regard for his knowledge and experience. And Blasterboy is right on about the value of dry practice for improving one's shooting. So please indulge me and let me try to summarize what I think we're all saying.

[1] Proper dry practice can be a very useful part of training and can really help improve one's shooting.

[2] Occasionally dropping the hammer on an empty chamber probably won't so any noticeable harm.

[3] Regular dry firing over a long enough period of time has a potential to cause some damage.

[4] So if you want to engage in extended periods of dry practice (which is a good thing) it's a good idea to use a snap cap. And one should also replace the firing pin spring every couple of thousand rounds, using good quality springs.

I don't think that any of us are disagreeing with the others. We just seem to be coming at things from slightly different directions.

DVC

[John]

Very correct Frank, very correct. And if I may add another dimension to this issue, something I have found equally rewarding as a practicing and training alternative, is the airsoft pistols. Place a cardboard box about 8-10 meters away from your couch and you can practice shooting all day long, with minimal expense. And you can see the holes on the target, as a reward, too. Quite helpful in improving your trigger control and sight alignment.

[Blasterboy]

Precisely..!!

[littledoc]

John, you are not kidding about the airsoft guns. For a long time I thought airsoft guns were cheap plastic toys only good to keep the cat out of the Christmas tree. Boy, was I wrong. My son recently brought one home and it looks and feels real. It fires the same plastic BB, but is accurate to about 20 paces and still goes through cardboard.

I use it more than he does now. I can engage "targets of opportunity" anywhere in the front yard. A shooter uses all the same marksmanship skills they would use for "real" guns. Airsoft is definately in the realm of big boys' toys.

This old dog can still learn some tricks.

[John]

This is one of the reasons behind our Airsoft section. It now remains to run some of these toys through some man-against-man exercises, to see how good they are at this kind of practicing. But you are right, the definite training alternative to the real gun.

[littledoc]

Sure. Something that everyone can use in man on man live fire drills. Especially since Simmunitions is not available to most shooters. Wear good eye protection, you definitely know when you get hit.

[John]

Wear good eye protection, you definitely know when you get hit.

I can .... confirm this! Especially under your t-shirt or on your bare leg. You do feel it! Even under a heavy jacket, you do feel it, albeit very lightly.