View Full Version : Kimber Pro or Sig 245, If your life depends on it?
28th November 2005, 19:26
If your life depended on it, which one would you pick?
Kimber Pro CDP II
Kimber Compact CDP II
Kimber Tactical Pro II
Sig Sauer 245
Sig Sauer 220
It will be carried in a VMII and needs to be well hidden. I have/like 45's (Kimber Ultra Carry II and Eclipse ULE II)but occasionally carry 40's (Sig 239, 229 and Kahr PM40). I'm an average size guy in decent shape and want another new toy, but it must be very reliable as I will use it for the majority of my concealed carry use.
Thanks in advance
28th November 2005, 23:53
Can't comment on the Sig, but since you seem interested in the 4" Kimber Pro models you really need to consider the Pro Raptor. For one reason alone, the recently shipped ones have an internal extractor. Plus they have many nice features such as front strap stippling, Meprolite night sights, ambi-safety, etc.
29th November 2005, 05:48
I went to the range with a friend of mine who owns a Pro CDP. I had my Sig 239 .40 cal. He let me shoot the Pro a few times and before I knew it, my Sig was back in the range bag not to be seen again that day. That Pro shot so smooth and accurate it made my Sig feel like a Saturday Night Special. Don't get me wrong, I really like the Sig but there was no comparison between the two guns.
29th November 2005, 10:24
I should mention that I had a 2005 model Ultra CDP II (3") with an external extractor that Kimber could not make reliably extract. After 6 months, about 6 trips back to Kimber and $600 in test ammo they replaced it with a 2004 model (with internal extractor). That pistol has been wonderful. So much so that I bought another NIB 2002 Ultra CDP Elite (pictured, upper right of post).
Personally, I would avoid any 3" external extractor (and maybe even 4"). Kimber seems to be replacing the slides on external extractor 3" (and maybe 4") 1911s with internal extractors for those owners returning theirs with extractor problems. There seems to be a trend here. Manu are thinking there are going to be less external extractors in the years to come. Maybe the 3" (and perhaps 4") 1911s will move away from them.
It will be interesting to see hat the 2006 catalog shows...
Now there are many people with no problems and you don't tend to hear from them. Still, based on the evidence, it is something to consider IMHO.
29th November 2005, 10:32
Sig Sauer 220
29th November 2005, 12:44
Personally, I would choose a handgun with the same operating system that I was familiar with for home and carry. You mentioned handguns that have three different operating systems (some would say two). Depending on your level of experience with each operating system, to me, would be a deciding factor on what to carry. Having said that, and this being a 1911 forum, I would go with a Kimber Pro model. ;)
29th November 2005, 16:32
Thanks for the information. I have an ultra carry II (three inch, 2005 stainless) that has been temperamental. My Eclipse is the same size/year and seems to function perfect every time (350ish rounds so far). The goal here is one gun, constant carry.
Warm Rain: I will give the raptor a look.
BrianNJ: Was there any problems/FTE.
OD: My Sigs seem very reliable, and the Kimbers maybe more of a break in is in order. So now you see my dilemma.
Radar: I am equally familiar with each operating system and want to stick with only one for self defense, the rest will be for the safe and/or occasional recreational use. At least that's my plan.
I prefer the look of the kimbers, but I don't want to bet my life on estetics. The reason I was looking at the 4 inch/Pros was hopefully to compare/increase reliability. Somehow I thought the longer I was in the hobby and the more information I gathered these decisions would be easier. It only has made me want more guns. ;)
29th November 2005, 17:36
There were no malfunctions at all. The CDP was 100% reliable in the 300 or so rounds we fired. My buddy was firing some very fast controlled pairs and there were no malfunctions with those either. I was very impressed.
29th November 2005, 17:55
It is probably wise to go with that which you are familiar.
29th November 2005, 20:41
It only has made me want more guns. ;)
We all want more guns!!! :D
29th November 2005, 20:47
That's the best advice yet. I'd get a 4" Kimber internal extractor gun (e.g. Pro Raptor) and a sig in your favorite caliber and configuration.
30th November 2005, 17:52
Never had a Kimber, had a SIG 220 for over 10 years that never jammed after several thousand rounds, traded it for a 1911. Still have a SIG 245 that is completly reliable, but I can shoot a 1911 better.
6th December 2005, 09:54
Foe concealed carry and dependability a Sig 245. Although I shoot more accurately with a 1911 style gun.
21st December 2005, 12:45
The sig without a doubt ,, for dependendability I have 4 1911s love the way they shoot feel ect and all excellent as far as accuracy is concerned to say non has failed I would be lying The Kimber 3" is the worst af all with failure rates 20 out of 100 even after sending it back twice, regardless of ammo ext extractor ,, The Nighthawk pred III 3 -4 out of 100 with cheap ammo sometimes 3 per mag about 50% FTF with junk ammo (Independence) 0 malfunctions with good ammo, The Talon IV about the same they do not like cheap ammo, The Wilson Stealth 1 out of 100 with cheap ammo 100% with good ammo, The sigs 100% all the time every time regardless of ammo but not as accuarate.......Just my findings..........
21st December 2005, 12:57
...The Kimber 3" is the worst af all with failure rates 20 out of 100 even after sending it back twice, regardless of ammo ext extractor...
After 4 or 5 trips back to Kimber I finally asked Dennis to replace my new Ultra CSD that they could not make extract with an internal extractor version. That one runs about 1 FTF in 200-300 rounds. It has about 600 through it and it may improve. If it doesn't I think I need to check/tune the extractor, but for now it continues to improve.
Don't settle for that performance from your Kimber, make them fix it or replace it (or the slide)!
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