Trigger, Sear, Hammer

[Uncle Chan]

Good morning everyone! I hope you had a good Thanksgiving!

Recently, I was given two brand new 30yr Colt Mark IV Govt 1911s. They are, by far, the nicest handguns I've ever owned...EXCEPT, I'm not too impressed with the triggers and hammers. I'm not looking to spend a ton of money, but I'm willing to drop a few bills to replace them with something that feels better, looks better, lighter.

Any package recommendations? Are all parts interchangeable? Can any sear work with any hammer? I'm below novice here and any help is appreciated.

Oh, one more thing, the 1911s will be used for target, defence, and hunting. To me, they are multipurpose.

Thanks Kindly,
Uncle Chan

[SAWBONES]

The old Colt hammers (and most other Colt parts) are good parts.
When you say you're not impressed by the trigger, do you mean the visible fingerpiece is not to your liking, or do you mean that you don't like the "feel" of the trigger when you pull it?

New tool steel hammers are available from many makers, as are various styles and materials for trigger fingerpieces and bows, but it may be that all you need is a competent "trigger job" by a good pistolsmith. Please elaborate.

[Uncle Chan]

Sawbones,

Thanks for your reply.

I don't like the looks or feel. I'm a competitive CAS shooter and am used to a light crisp trigger and a light, crisp hammer. I would like to replace what I have with something more visually appealing and more functionally easier/lighter, both hammer and trigger and if needs be springs, sear, firing pin, etc. Any suggestions?

U.C.

[Hawkmoon]

Sawbones,

Thanks for your reply.

I don't like the looks or feel. I'm a competitive CAS shooter and am used to a light crisp trigger and a light, crisp hammer. I would like to replace what I have with something more visually appealing and more functionally easier/lighter, both hammer and trigger and if needs be springs, sear, firing pin, etc. Any suggestions?

U.C.
For openers, it would help to know what the trigger pull weight is (or "are," if they are different between the two pistols. It would also help to know the pull weight on your cowboy six-shooter, because it's possible that you have that tuned lighter than what is generally considered safe for a 1911. The terms "light" and "crisp" are extremely subjective.

And lastly, it would also help to know how you intend to use those 1911s, because how they will be used might affect the advice given.

[Uncle Chan]

Good morning everyone! I hope you had a good Thanksgiving!

Recently, I was given two brand new 30yr Colt Mark IV Govt 1911s. They are, by far, the nicest handguns I've ever owned...EXCEPT, I'm not too impressed with the triggers and hammers. I'm not looking to spend a ton of money, but I'm willing to drop a few bills to replace them with something that feels better, looks better, lighter.

Any package recommendations? Are all parts interchangeable? Can any sear work with any hammer? I'm below novice here and any help is appreciated.

Oh, one more thing, the 1911s will be used for target, defence, and hunting. To me, they are multipurpose.

Thanks Kindly,
Uncle Chan


The trigger pulls on the Vaqs are about 2 1/2lbs and I had my gunsmith make them so. I don't know on the 1911s. They are factory.

As I mentioned above, they will be and have been used for hunting, self-defence, target.

And, what constitutes safe trigger pull on a 1911? Isn't that sort of subjective? I want a hair trigger and hammer. I'm accustomed to that. Is that not safe on a 1911? And if it isn't, why isn't it?

U.C.

[Hawkmoon]

3-1/2 pounds is about the minimum that is considered to be safe with a 1911, and that's for most target work. For carry, 4-1/2 to 5 pounds with a clean break is what is usually recommended. The reason is that the "ready" mode for carrying a 1911 is cocked and locked. The lighter the trigger, if the thumb safety isn't engaged or isn't functioning correctly the easier it is for an accidental bump to dislodge the sear from the hammer and allow the pistol to fire. The newer Colts with the Series 80 firing pin safety won't fire unless the trigger has been pulled ... yours will fire if bumped.

How safe would you feel walking around a CAS match with your cowboy six-shooter cocked and all six chambers loaded? That's essentially what you would have with the 1911.

[Uncle Chan]

3-1/2 pounds is about the minimum that is considered to be safe with a 1911, and that's for most target work. For carry, 4-1/2 to 5 pounds with a clean break is what is usually recommended. The reason is that the "ready" mode for carrying a 1911 is cocked and locked. The lighter the trigger, if the thumb safety isn't engaged or isn't functioning correctly the easier it is for an accidental bump to dislodge the sear from the hammer and allow the pistol to fire. The newer Colts with the Series 80 firing pin safety won't fire unless the trigger has been pulled ... yours will fire if bumped.

How safe would you feel walking around a CAS match with your cowboy six-shooter cocked and all six chambers loaded? That's essentially what you would have with the 1911.

(edited 8:36p)

I see what you are saying, even though IMHO you are comparing apples and oranges. Have there been any studies on the failure rates of the 1911 safety?

As for cocked and locked, I suspect that that is a matter of preference. Most of the people I know who aren't Law Enforcement won't carry a 1911 C-n-L. I won't either. Goes against my training. :) Thanks for the information. A 4 1/2lb trigger would be just fine.

Does the trigger, hammer, sear, and firing pin need to be matched, meaning, do I need to get them from the same manufaturer? Or, can i mix and match and then have my gunsmith do the final fitting? And what would you recommend?

U.C.

[John]

You can get a matched-set (usually hammer/sear/disconnector/mainspring) from Cylinder and Slide. They have them in predefined trigger pull weights and usually the trigger pull you will get is very close to the advertised numbers. These are essentially drop-in parts.

Or you can get different parts from different vendors and ask a gunsmith to do a trigger job on your gun.

Keep in mind one thing. The trigger, in a 1911, has no effect on your trigger pull. A new trigger might need to be fit to your gun, or it might drop right in, but do not expect it to affect your trigger pull weight.

Finally, the analogy of Hawkmoon's post is right to the point. It's not apples and oranges. It's not a question of a safety failing only. A hair trigger means that the sear and hammer are matted in such a way that a very slight pull makes them move apart, if the safety is not precisely fit, a sudden jolt or a hit can have the same effect. And you do not want that happen.

Personally, I won't trust any 1911 with a trigger lighter than 4-5 lbs.

[1911Tuner]

While many smiths are able to produce a sub 4-pound trigger on a 1911, only about half of them can do one that's also safe and durable. About 7 in 10 that I know of like that start to burst-fire or go full auto...usually without warning...within 5,000 rounds. I spend a good amount of my spare time correcting trigger jobs like that in friends' pistols.

As long as the half-cock is unaltered, the gun is highly unlikely to bump-fire
in a holster or if dropped, but if the trigger is pulled and the sear and hammer angles...or the sear spring tension isn't right...it can most assuredly burst-fire, and probably will at some point.

The other problem with a trigger that light is that...in the event of a tense, stand-off situation with the gun...the adrenalin charge could cause you to fire before you need to. If the gun is intended to be purely a range toy,
it's not so much of a problem as long as you tear the gun down for regular inspection of the hammer and sear...and I mean an inspection by a knowledgeable smith who knows the warning signs. If you have a dial indicator and a bench vise, you can do the test yourself. Clamp the pistol lightly in the vise and zero the indicator on the cocked hammer. Slowly pull the trigger and watch the needle. If the hammer moves forward by as much
as .003 inch before the break, you've got trouble looming on the horizon.
If you zero the indicator and let it sit for 30 minutes...and it creeps forward on its own...the trouble has already arrived.

That crisp, new, 3-pound trigger is probably safe...until things start to wear and springs lose tension. Really good trigger men don't come cheap. Know your smith and be ready to pay a premium for top-end job.

Just a little food for thought...

[Uncle Chan]

Thanks gents. Food for thought. Can you recommend any good book(s) on the subject?

Uncle Chan