View Full Version : LDA Slide Differences
19th November 2005, 06:18
Does anyone know the differences between the LDA slide and the standard 1911A1 (pre 80) slide, if any. I would like to build a 38 super Tac Four, without welding a breach face.
19th November 2005, 11:15
I don't recall if any of the slide is cut away to make room for the LDA draw bar, but I sort of think it is. I do know that all Paras use a Series 80 style firing pin safety.
19th November 2005, 22:57
Para cuts the frame away to allow for the trigger bar.
I think that the slide is standard Series 80.... (Dunno if the firing pin safety is 100%, but it should be.)
My Commander's still in CT not being fixed, but I have a Kimber I can use to look at.
I'll post later if possible.
20th November 2005, 01:00
I tried.... :(
The Kimber slide ("Combat Custom" - a 4" Commander-ish Series-70 style gun with an Officer's grip frame and bull barrel) stops solid about a half-inch before being fully in battery. Tested without barrel; on my Green Tac-Four frame.
I'm not sure what's holding it. The slide seems to fit the rails just fine, and it doesn't look like the ejector's a problem. The trigger bar drops down out of the way as it's supposed to.
(You have to squeeze the Para's grip safety to move the slide, and that appears to apply here, although I've yet to figure out what's blocking what, but that may be the key - I'm guessing that the slide has cutouts for the firing pin block that double as a slide "holder".
(The Para slide wouldn't even go on the Kimber rails. I don't understand that either....)
Anyway, I don't think a slide swap's going to make it.
I have no experience in this area, but I'm guessing that you can't just put a .38Super barrel in the thing and find a magazine that'd work without some machine work.
So, the short answer is that I did get the thing onto the rails, but something stopped it. The Kimber slide is for a 4" gun, but I don't see anything hanging it up out front v.s. the 4.25" Para goodies. The firing pin safety lever seems to clear the frame OK.
If my Commander ever gets back from CT, I can try that too. The frame's apparently toast. Brownells is closing out a cute "chopped" frame (it's apparently "odd") but dropped an accesory package that includes a sear spring and hammer strut (and some other parts) that are apparently necessary to actually make something. I can't tell how standard they are....
20th November 2005, 05:43
Thanks, I guess I'll have to find an LDA for the experiment. A government size frame, cut to use the commander slide is more my speed anyway. I just bought a Para P14 (old) kit gun yesterday. It has some really nice features and I can use it for my CCW while I rebuild my Caspian.
20th November 2005, 06:58
You are a new member, so you are not aware that bragging is strongly encouraged here.
20th November 2005, 07:26
OK I'll see what I can do on both counts, as soon as I find an LDA to take apart.
22nd November 2005, 05:24
Per George Wedge's words, the LDA slides are different than the ones for the single-action pistols.
22nd November 2005, 10:28
Per George Wedge's words, the LDA slides are different than the ones for the single-action pistols.John:
I was looking at the insides of my Tac-Four's slide Sunday night. I did see a cutout for the trigger lever in the slide, I think.... That would explain some things.
It's kind of hard to spot, and might be part of the firing pin block goodies instead, but overall there's something going on there that's not in the Kimber slide.
I probably won't get a chance until the weekend, but the Commander's back, and I want to try that.
22nd November 2005, 10:40
George mentionned also something about the S80 mechanism in the LDA, if I remember correctly, he said that it is impossible to safely remove it, without destroying the gun, or something to that extend.
22nd November 2005, 15:05
George mentionned also something about the S80 mechanism in the LDA, if I remember correctly, he said that it is impossible to safely remove it, without destroying the gun, or something to that extend.John:
George has to say something like that, as should we all, for liability reasons. You should never remove a safety mechanism from a gun that's going to be carried. :nono:
I'm told that Kimber Series II guns with the Schwartz safety can be "adjusted" by replacing the firing pin with a Series 70 (or Pre-80) Colt firing pin. I still haven't figured that one out, but if I can hold Joe down long enough to liberate his Series II :scared: , I think I've got one of those pins here someplace.
The Para's a somewhat more complex fix. Removing the safety parts from inside the slide will probably cause the lever coming from the frame (I think it's coming from the sear pin) to hang up in the plunger hole, and could make a mess out of the slide as well as well as tear up the little levers on it's pin inside the frame. :mad: It probably would be safe to stake or weld the safety plunger in the slide in it's "up" (fire) position, though, but it'd be hard to claim that "I don't know how that happened." ;)
The "lever" is sort of flat, but I think the free end could find it's way into the hole anyway.
Brownells sells a "spacer" that may be capable of replacing the lever (I suppose you could make one). Again, hard to say "how did that happen?" :o (This is the technique for the Colts - it's much easier to swap one in a Colt.)
AFAIK, a Pre-80 Colt firing pin won't install in a Series 80 (or Para) slide because the plunger gets in the way - it has to be out of there entirely or moved to it's "fire" position (all the way up) before the pin can be installed at all.... :nono:
I'm told that Colt tried and dropped the Schwartz safety before WWII. I see two problems - a ham-handed fellow replacing the slide while gripping the grip safety can behead the actuator pin, rendering the gun inoperative, and it looks like the "plunger" widget in the slide could be susceptible to lubrication issues or otherwise not move properly.
I really have to take one apart - problem is that I think you have to remove the rear sights, and some Kimber sights might as well be welded on. My non-Series II (IOW, no firing pin safety) relinquished it's rear sight without a hiccup, but it took some serious bashing to get the front sight off. Joe may take offense when I put down the little mallet and go for the sledge. :p
Short answer is that George is correct from a liability standpoint, and from a practicality standpoint you have to add "unless you know what you're doing."
IANAL, and all just IMHO. I wasn't here, I didn't say this.
23rd November 2005, 01:48
I understand what you are saying, but George told me that in a private discussion, and since he knows I do not own any LDA's he had no reason to tell me this.
In a Colt S80 it is very easy to remove the safety. The Brownells spacer is not even necessary, just remove the upper lever and leave the lower in place. Then remove the plunger from the slide and the plunger spring and you are done. But in an LDA, I am not sure how it goes, and frankly if George says it is next to impossible I have no wish or means to test it.
23rd November 2005, 10:07
Too bad George can't just send you an LDA :D ....
You're correct. I "talked" to George yesterday. The only way to do it (I wasn't here, I didn't say this) is to stake or weld the plunger in the slide in it's "up" position or neatly plug (make it go away) the hole. Not impossible, but not easy.
The internals of the LDA do not allow removal of the top lever without screwing up some other important stuff. Para strongly advises (rightly so) against fooling with this.
I think you do want that Brownell's spacer in the S80, but removing the top lever would be sufficient. $10-ish USD with shipping.... (Or cut the top off the top lever and remove the plunger. I wasn't here, I didnt' say this.)
It's simply not a good idea to do this to a carry gun. However, Kimber's being used for target probably would benefit by a fairly total refit - just letting the block ride on the S70 pin bothers me. I'm not convinced that the Colt/Para version is that much of a problem.
24th November 2005, 08:57
Kerby Smith had an article in, Jan. 2000 issue of HANDGUNS. His picture of the slide looks like an S80 slide W/O "notch for disconnector". I happen to know that I will have an LDA in about three weeks. I will post comparative pictures of S70, S80 and LDA. If I can figure out how. The S80 firing pin safety delete is not uncommon. I think the early Para frames (pre guns) came as S80 and included a block off plate. I can't find an early add,
24th November 2005, 14:31
Hi guys. To set the record straight on this topic, let me clear up a few points. The spacer that is available from Brownells, or us for that matter, is for the Single Action Frame. They were designed for our frame kits for people who were intending to build using a series 70 top end. Of course, some people have made use of this spacer for other projects, but that is not the topic for discussion, nor do I recommend defeating any manufacturers safety device on any firearm...period.
Now...that spacer is not compatible in any way, shape, or form for use with an LDA pistol. The configuration, design, and action hole positions will not allow it.
I have not personally (or third party) ever heard of anyone disabling the series 80 system on an LDA. Since each and every LDA slide ever produced was built with a series 80 system incorporated in the design, there is simply no need for it.
I don't recommend tinkering with it just to see if it is possible either. The lever in the frame interacts with more than just the Series 80 Plunger.
Also, a single action slide can not function on an LDA frame.
24th November 2005, 15:07
Thanks for clearing up this issue for us, we appreciate it.
24th November 2005, 18:25
Thank you for the info. The origin of the question is my desire for a commander length slide in 38 super for an LDA. I would rather not defeat safety features. I would rather buy a slide for now.But then, that's why I ask.
I assumed that the "S80 lever" in the frame takes the place of the disconnector on your LDA and that the plate would not work on the LDA.
My reference to the S80 firing pin deletion, was on other than LDAs.
It's perfectly clear now. It is not possible to modify an LDA.
I'll have the wife cancel that present.
I'll stick to single action.
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