Newbie with an old pistol

[Texas Gypsy]

Good evening, all.

I have had a 1911, serial # NO4 976. The 6 is folowed by a strong l mark. I cannot tell exactly what is between the "4" and the "9". The pistol has been re-blued.

I have owned said pistol for 30+ years and have always been cutious about it's age.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[exitwounds]

Good evening, all.

I have had a 1911, serial # NO4 976. The 6 is folowed by a strong l mark. I cannot tell exactly what is between the "4" and the "9".
Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Is the serial number:
4x976 ("x" in the unknown number)????

What are the markings on the frame? (ex. UNITED STATES PROPERTY, etc.)
Can you provide any pictures or more details about the frame and slide?
A 4xxxx serial number if the weapon is USGI would fall into 1913 Colt production.

[Texas Gypsy]

That would be correct.

[Texas Gypsy]

Right side:
MODEL OF 1911.US.ARMY

Left side from top down:
PATENTED APR.20,1897.SEPT.9,1902 (Prancing Colt logo) COLT'S PT.F.A.MFG.CO

Next Line:

DEC.19,1905.FEB.14,1911.AUG.19,1913 (PCL)HARTFORD,CT.U.S.A

All above on slide.

On frame:

UNITED STATES PROPERTY
AA slightly mis-aligned near slide release

Thanks

[exitwounds]

The AA indicates the weapon was Arsenal Rebuilt at the Augusta Arsenal, Augusta, GA.
The serial # 4x976 is 1913 Colt production. Your slide sounds correct for the serial # range, but not sure. You said the pistol was re-blued, is the AA stamp after the finish?

[Texas Gypsy]

Thank you for the response.

When the pistol was purchased, I was told that it had been re-blued and had no collector value. I assumed that the statement was factual and bought the 1911 as a shooter.

I am not sire how to tell if the AA is pre or post finish, however, the blueing is not marred at the stamp site.

There is also a small imprint above the magazine release that my old eyes cannot identify. Guess I'll have to get a magnifying glass.

Are there any other marks for which I should look?

Thanks again for the information.

[Scott Gahimer]

The slide is not original for a 1913 pistol in the 4xxxx range. The 1913 patent date wasn't added until about 83856 serial range.
Additionally, it sounds like it's been commercially blued and the info about the refinish you received when you bought it is correct.
Yes, you would look for broken finish in the AA stamp, but I can pretty well assure you Augusta Arsenal didn't blue any of their rebuilds, and the AA stamp was stamped after the phosphate (parkerized) finish would have been applied there.
After re-reading your first post, I've got a question. You say the 6 is followed by a strong "I or 1" mark, and the second digit of the serial number seems to have been obliterated?
Please look closely above the mag release button and report the final inspector's mark that is there. I'm wondering if the I or 1 wasn't added and the 2nd number removed in an attempt to hide the original serial number? The inspector's mark will tell us at least what serial range the gun was originally in.

[Texas Gypsy]

Thanks. Any guess as to value?

[Scott Gahimer]

No, not yet.

I went back and edited my last post. Please try to answer my questions, as the answers will help determine what you have and the value.

Thanks.

[exitwounds]

Thanks Scott, I have not seen or heard of a blued AA rebuild myself, most I've seen had been parkerized. I was just curious to know given the age of the weapon. Thanks for clarifying the slide range too.

[Scott Gahimer]

I thought that's what you meant. I was merely clarifying it for Texas Gypsy.

Glad to help.

[Texas Gypsy]

Good evening, all.

Sorry for the delay in responding.

With magnification, had to buy a magnifying glass, I ca see what appears to be a "S" and a "3" with an upper case T between. Also found the number 46 (as best as I can tell) on the trigger guard on the left side of frame.

Does this information help?

Thanks for everyone's effort in this.

T/G

[Texas Gypsy]

Good evening, all.

Sorry for the delay in responding.

With magnification, had to buy a magnifying glass, I ca see what appears to be a "S" and a "3" with an upper case T between. Also found the number 46 (as best as I can tell) on the trigger guard on the left side of frame.

Does this information help?

Thanks for everyone's effort in this.

T/G

[exitwounds]

Good evening, all.

Sorry for the delay in responding.

With magnification, had to buy a magnifying glass, I ca see what appears to be a "S" and a "3" with an upper case T between. Also found the number 46 (as best as I can tell) on the trigger guard on the left side of frame.

Does this information help?

Thanks for everyone's effort in this.

T/G

Is this the inspection mark you are referring too?
If so it may be S17, but should have an Eagles Head over it.
That would put the weapon in the mid 1918 to mid 1919 range.
The number 46 is an assembler/inspection mark.

[Texas Gypsy]

Yes, exitwounds, I am refering to the inspection mark above the magazine release. I can see no Eagles Head.

It is definately not a 7. There is a little corrosion and pitting in the area of the mark.

Was there an S13 mark?

[exitwounds]

Yes, exitwounds, I am refering to the inspection mark above the magazine release. I can see no Eagles Head.

It is definately not a 7. There is a little corrosion and pitting in the area of the mark.

Was there an S13 mark?

The inspector's numbers observed on the Colt 1911's were: Eagles Head / 3, 4, S4, S5, S6, S8, S11, S12, S13, S14, S15, S16, S17, and S20.

Here is an example of a S16 eagle's head stamp:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/m67/S16EaglesHead.jpg

Not the clearest picture, but should give you an idea.

[Texas Gypsy]

What I took for the cross bar on the upper case T in a previous post is the bottom stroke of the Eagle Head above the S13. That must have been removed along with part of the serial number and an attempt to remove the US Property stamp.

There may have been a 9 removed from the serial number. Would 49976 fit with the S13 stamp? If so, what might be the original age of the weapon?

[exitwounds]

Would 49976 fit with the S13 stamp?

No, from serial number 1 - 101500 +/- the inspector stamp would have been that of Walter G. Penfield, Major. That stamp would be a small circle with a G and the WP overlayed, kind of hard to describe. There may be an example of this stamp on www.coolgunsite.com perhaps in the ID pages or gallery.

sn # 49976x I believe would fall into the Eagle's Head inspection range, you mentioned a mark past or next to the 6, it could perhaps be your missing number to put it into the proper range.