S.A.M. wear problem.

[bushman]

I've had a SAM blue thunder for about 3 years now and have about 1000 rounds through it. Great shooter, polished the feed ramp and not a single failure. But, last week at the range, I field stripped the pistol and noticed the breech face has been depressed by the cartridge rims as they are fired.
there is a semicircular depression at the top of the face, haven't measured the depth, but I can see and feel it, and there is actually a raised area where the primer pocket sits.

Has anyone seen this before? Should I toss it or is it safe to fire?

[bushman]

Just looked closer....what a mess. That odd recoil spring guide they use has peened the front of the link lugs and now the link pin falls out when you turn the barrel on its side. the slide stop pin hole has been peend and enlarged so there's some slop in there, and the barrel locking lugs are both rounded and burred on the forward shoulders. So I guess the pistol is all around junk now.

[mel1956]

post some pictures of the problems. Maybe somebody on the forum may have some suggestions.

[Hawkmoon]

Just looked closer....what a mess. That odd recoil spring guide they use has peened the front of the link lugs and now the link pin falls out when you turn the barrel on its side. the slide stop pin hole has been peend and enlarged so there's some slop in there, and the barrel locking lugs are both rounded and burred on the forward shoulders. So I guess the pistol is all around junk now.
I looked at and test fired a Colt Commander with a link pin so loose it fell right out. Didn't seem to affect functionality -- there were other problems, but it shot okay.

[bushman]

Pics aren't as good http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d136/hateamooch/th_crap3.jpg (http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d136/hateamooch/crap3.jpg)
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d136/hateamooch/th_crap2.jpg (http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d136/hateamooch/crap2.jpg)
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d136/hateamooch/th_crap1.jpg (http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d136/hateamooch/crap1.jpg)
as I hoped, but you can see what I am talking about.

[horge]

:scared:

Cripey, if your SAM's 'forged steel' slide is that soft... ugh.
Haven't seen that on other SAM's though. Freak lemon that skipped heat-treatment?
Even the barrel steel looks chewed up.

To be honest, the barrel milling (locking lug area) doesn't look 'SAM' to me.
Not at all. The SAM barrels I'm familiar wif' have locking lugs like this:
http://tinypic.com/f1d560.jpg

Can you post a photo of your slide's brand-rollmark?
Could be a really old SAM you have, and I hear those were pretty soft.
Could also be foreign, non-spec parts in there that you're unaware of.


Anyway, by breechface-wear comparison...
My 'cast steel' Armscor Practical FullSize DuoTone, shy of 1,000 rounds
through it; has the blueing gone in places, (lotsa carbon fouling instead, hehe)
but that's about it. Proper, post-milling heat treatment is the key.
http://tinypic.com/f1d0xt.jpg
Not a failure since break-in, the beast keeps banging them out with accuracy.
FMJ, JHP ...it doesn't care.

Hope your pistol's under some kind of warranty
If I found a deformed breechface like yours I'd stop shooting right away,
and get a refund/replacement, no matter what brand it was.

h

[bushman]

here's the rollmarks:


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d136/hateamooch/th_90c42965.jpg (http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d136/hateamooch/90c42965.jpg)
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d136/hateamooch/th_Picture042.jpg (http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d136/hateamooch/Picture042.jpg)

and better breech shots


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d136/hateamooch/th_Picture046.jpg (http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d136/hateamooch/Picture046.jpg)
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d136/hateamooch/th_Picture047.jpg (http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d136/hateamooch/Picture047.jpg)
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d136/hateamooch/th_Picture049.jpg (http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d136/hateamooch/Picture049.jpg)

[Joni Lynn]

I don't want to sound to dumb, but what's a SAM? I figure it's a brand name, or initials for one or something.

[mitchjoe]

bushman:

Man, that ain't pretty. You can replace the link & pin (including an available oversize pin if necessary) & stake it, clean up the radial (slide & barrel) & the locking lugs, get a regular Colt-style guiderod, but that'll still leave the breechface...

I'm trying to figure out from the pic's what happened to the lugs/ guiderod. The radial lug stuff is obviously from a poor fit up top...could be actual fit of the lugs or a improper length link, or bad fitting overall (top & bottom). You said they were flanged as well as deformed right?

I might suggest cleaning everything up & going back together with a new stock (.278) length link & pin, guiderod, & then run the timing test's, etc. found under the Technical Issues Forum, but as stated the damage to the breechface is a bit worriesome.

Joni:

S.A.M. stands for Shooter Arms Manufacturing. They're a manufacturer in the Phillipines.

mitchjoe

[Joni Lynn]

The guide rod in one of my 1911's was beveled off where yours has been impacting the barrel lugs.
Thanks for the explanation. I continue to learn everyday.

[horge]

Great new pics, bushman!
That IS an older SAM, a fair bit older than the three years of your ownership.

The breechface pics are so much clearer now.

I hate to ask, since I'm pretty sure your SAM has somewhat softer steel,
but can you verify that it is the steel that's being deformed?
Just a wild shot here, but could it be amalgamated brass-and-gunk
building up a small dam around the casehead rim and around the firing pin hole?
If as I fear, it's actual breechface steel that's getting pushed around,
then it doesn't really matter what's going on with the link or the lugs:
that breechface is way too soft.

It's possible the beechface metal will get pushed into the primer gap
to an extent that a slam fire becomes probable.


h.

[3006mv]

what kind of ammo are you using? could it be plus P? Is that a bulge in the barrel? I couldn't tell. And good catch on the guide rod, Joni Lynn I noticed that it wasn't beveled there either, don't know if that causes anything though.

[Joni Lynn]

I got a RRA 1911 a short time back and they had beveled off the part of the rod head that could possibly contact the lugs. I took that as a hint and wacked the others I had.