Value of Colt M1911A1 No. 870xxx

[Susan]

Can you give me an approximate value (ballpark figure will do) of the above noted pistol. The side with the serial No. & model No. also says United States Property and U. S. Army. It belongs to an elderly man who served in England during WWII at a desk job. The grips are checked brown plastic, the bluing finish is dull (not shiny), it has few, if any, scratches and no rust. I think it is in very good condition, but I am not very knowledgeable. Sorry, no picture is available.

[1911Tuner]

Hi Susan,

The value would depend on several factors...Original or correct barrel and other small parts...Has it been arsenal refurbished? Refinished? Overall condition...All these things determine the collector value, or lack thereof.

If you'll reply with the serial number and use "xxx" in place of the last three digits,
we can give you the year of production. Inspection of the gun for original or correct parts will require partial disassembly.

[Susan]

Hi Johnny,
Thank you for your reply. I am sorry to be so ignorant but I thought No. 870xxx was the serial #. Apparently not. Where will I find the serial #??
The owner (now in his 80's) says the gun is in the same condition as when it was issued to him. He would have no knowledge as to whether or not it was refurbished by the military prior to them issuing it to him. Nothing has been done to it (no parts changed or exchanged) since he received it in the 40's. I hope this helps to narrow down the options in guessing at a value. Like I said, just a ballpark figure would be acceptable. Thanks.

[John]

The number you quoted is the serial number. I edited your post for you, replacing the last three digits with xxx, it's not wise to show your complete serial number here, someone can report this pistol as stolen and get the owner into trouble.

In any case, the pistol seems to be a 1943 one, and the approximate value is between $400 and $2000, as I wrote to you in the email.

Rgds

[1911Tuner]

My bad! I didn't see it in the subject line. Haste will be my downfall one day...Just you wait and see. :o

At any rate, John is correct in the estimated value. Pretty wide margin, but until it's examined by somebody who knows their GI pistols, it'll have to do.
If you take it to have it appraised, let it be known up front that you don't want to sell the gun, and only need an appraisal. Some unscrupulous dealers
will underrate the value in hopes of buying the gun at a greatly reduced price and turning a big profit.

If the gun is truly as-issued and correct, I'd assign a little higher value to it on the low end...again...depending on remaining finish and overall condition,
and 2,000 bucks on the high end is about right.

[John]

Susan,

Since this is a WWII gun, I am moving your thread to the USGI pistols forum, where you will get more answers by collectors, much more experienced than me, on this subject.

It would be easier for every one, to give you a more detailed answer on its value, if you could take some pictures of the pistol and post them here.

Rgds

[Doran]

The frame serial number should also be underneath the firing pin stop in the slide for that range. Brown plastic grips are correct but would have to be the correct Colt style. The pistol should be parkerized, greyish or greenish color, instead of blue. Have them chk these features if you have it looked at.

What does it say on the left side of the slide? Clear, close photos of both sides and the back would help determine originality.

[Johnny Peppers]

Does anyone know of a case where someone has harvested a serial number from the internet and turned in a police report of the weapon being stolen? It is incumbent on the accuser to prove that the weapon is his, and if the police report post-dates the internet posting he is the one in trouble. Without a police report the crook doesn't have a chance. If there is a police report that pre-dates the internet posting, the pistol is probably stolen and should be returned to the rightful owner.
In the serial number range you quoted there were some commercial pistols transferred over to the military contract. These pistols were in various stages of completion, but had not been serial numbered. If yours is a commercial transfer it will have an S (Commercial Sales) on the top of the frame, bottom of the barrel, or inside the rails of the slide if any were originally commercial parts. Contract 1911A1's will have a G (Government Contract) in the above mentioned places. This adds some additional interest to these pistols.

[PZ93C]

Why couldn't the pistol be a Du lite Ithaca? It falls in the duplicate range.

Brian

[John]

From what Susan has written to me in an email, the right side of the pistol says:

Patented April 20, 1897 Sept. 9, 1902 Dec. 19, 1905, Feb. 14, 1911,Aug. 19, 1913 Colts PT. F.A. Mfg. Co. Hartford, CT USA.

So I guess, this makes it a Colt, or at least the slide is a Colt.

[exitwounds]

From what Susan has written to me in an email, the right side of the pistol says:

Patented April 20, 1897 Sept. 9, 1902 Dec. 19, 1905, Feb. 14, 1911,Aug. 19, 1913 Colts PT. F.A. Mfg. Co. Hartford, CT USA.

So I guess, this makes it a Colt, or at least the slide is a Colt.

The frame would have an FJA inspector stamp if it were an Ithaca, and the Colt would not have an FJA. :)

[Susan]

Hey Guys,
First a big thank you to everyone trying to help me out. Here is some more info. The left side of the slide says Patented Apr. 20,1897 Sept. 9, 1902
Dec. 19, 1905, Feb. 14,1911, Aug. 19, 1913 Colts PT. F.A. Mfg. Co.
Hartford, CT U.S.A. The right side of the slide says United States Property with the serial # and the model #. I have also found a few other markings:
There is a P of the top of the barrel about 3/4" in front of the notched sight,
and on the left side at the top of the grip to the left of the plastic engraved in the metal are the letters G.H.D. (the D is not as deeply engraved as the other letters). Also, about 1 1/4" below that and just to the left of the grip is a faint P. The finish on the gun is a dull gray. I plan to take it to be appraised next week and will let you know what I find out. Thanks again.

[exitwounds]

Hey Guys,
First a big thank you to everyone trying to help me out. Here is some more info. The left side of the slide says Patented Apr. 20,1897 Sept. 9, 1902
Dec. 19, 1905, Feb. 14,1911, Aug. 19, 1913 Colts PT. F.A. Mfg. Co.
Hartford, CT U.S.A. The right side of the slide says United States Property with the serial # and the model #. I have also found a few other markings:
There is a P of the top of the barrel about 3/4" in front of the notched sight,
and on the left side at the top of the grip to the left of the plastic engraved in the metal are the letters G.H.D. (the D is not as deeply engraved as the other letters). Also, about 1 1/4" below that and just to the left of the grip is a faint P. The finish on the gun is a dull gray. I plan to take it to be appraised next week and will let you know what I find out. Thanks again.

Susan, the GHD is that of Inspector Guy H. Drewry, Brig. General. That confirms your pistol is indeed a Colt. The P is a proof mark and is actually on the slide between the rear sight and ejection port. The website www.coolgunsite.com 1911 ID pages and 1911 gallery may be of interest to you. It will provide you with pictures and details on your weapon specific to manufacture. the finish you are referring to is know as parkerized and was found on all Colt pistols sn# 780,000 to end of war production. :)