Bummer, My new Colt Defender problem

[ArmyCop]

Second time at the range. First shot then problem. Recoil Spring didn't expand back after first shot. Spring assembly jammed together somehow.
I couldn't get it to unjam\pull back out normal again.
Range guy was nice enough to loan me a Glock .45 for some of my shooting time then came out with an old Kimber 1911 to try.
Not as good as using my own but session was okay with the other guns.

Now - do I get with Colt for a replacement or buy new Spring assembly from another manuf?

Also, anyone else have this problem? It was VERY disappointing AND made me wonder if I'd been in a self defense situation when it happened how it'd turned out....

Comments \ Suggestions???

[emiddio]

i've only got about 1000 to 2000 rnds thru my Defender -- havn't had any problems at all.

bought in feb/97

i dont know where to get replacement recoil spring assemblies other than colt -- if u find others lets us know -- wouldnt mind having a spare or 2.

[1911Tuner]

Howdy ArmyCop,

Are ya sure it's the recoil spring? They're reverse-wound and shouldn't get tangled up in the tunnel. It could be that the disconnect got into a bind and won't drop into the frame. I've seen it happen and stop the slide dead in its tracks. If you can see the top of the disconnect, push down on it with a screwdriver tip. If it won't move, or is very hard to move...
remove the mainspring housing to get things loosened up. Pull the flat sear spring out and see if the slide gets free. If it does, get back to me for the rest of the fix.

If the disconnect will move down easily, it could be that the recoil guide rod flange separated from the rod and is tying things up. if that's the case, the barrel will be wedged tightly into the slide, and you won't be able to move it at all. If not, you should be able to see some play in the barrel.

[stans]

Recoil springs weren't installed backwards, were they? Most recoil springs have one end open and the other end is wound to a smaller diameter to grip the recoil spring guide rod. Install them with the open end on the guide rod and you can get malfunctions.

[mitchjoe]

ArmyCop:

Does your Defender have the dual-spring big rod/ small rod setup?

mitchjoe

[ArmyCop]

Recoil springs weren't installed backwards, were they? Most recoil springs have one end open and the other end is wound to a smaller diameter to grip the recoil spring guide rod. Install them with the open end on the guide rod and you can get malfunctions.

They weren't backwards. I didn't think you could install backwards. Would a round even rack in that way?

[stans]

Good point. Have you been able to disassemble the gun?

[ArmyCop]

Good point. Have you been able to disassemble the gun?

Oh yeah, it's disassembled. I have the part(s) ready to send out as soon as I hear back from Colt. Unless they send replacement without requiring the bad parts.

[stans]

So how did you get it disassembled if the slide would not come forward by spring pressure? Is it just the recoil spring assembly that's shot?

[1911Tuner]

Try the disconnect function. Push the bare slide onto the frame and see if it'll move through its full travel.

Look on the bottom of the barrel for signs of the recoil guide rod flange binding. Rare, but I've seen it happen...and it ties the gun up like you described.

This'un sounds like it's gonna be a poser...

[ArmyCop]

So how did you get it disassembled if the slide would not come forward by spring pressure? Is it just the recoil spring assembly that's shot?

After first shot recoil spring was compressed and didn't re-expand. I could get slide back but not forward. I was able to drop mag & clear round and pull side pin out and get gun apart. Spring assembly was squished up together. I may have had outer spring on backwards - can't tell now. Some (if not all) outer spring jammed up inside inner assembly and bushing stuck.

[frodo_lives]

I have had mine for a couple years and it has about 1K rounds through it, mostly of 230g hardball. I have not had the problem you describe and after the first 50 rounds the pistol has been 100% reliable.

Brownells (www.brownells.com) lists some parts for the Dender, including the outside spring.

If I get time tonight I will pop mine apart and try and send a picture of it.

[stans]

This is why I like simple things like a single recoil spring. None of that dual spring stuff or captive spring mess for me.

[frodo_lives]

Since one can't just drop a .jpg here and I don't have the time to set up a picture now, I may have an answer to the problem. This is the outside spring has two different ends (at least on the gun I have). I think you do not want to put the flat end towards the front. If so it appears the unfinished end could run over the small flange at the back of the assembly that contains the inside spring and jam the gun. I am not going to intentionally try this anytime soon. I always try to put stuff back the way it came apart. Maybe after I retire.

I wonder what it would have taken Colt to finish both ends of the outside spring so it could be inserted either way? ...Like if anyone at Colt reads this.

By the way, considering stans statement, I certainly have a single spring 5 inch Gov Mod beside my bed and with no stinking guide rod either. Still, there used to be some good links on the web as to why multiple springs are required in small .45 auto pistols (and .40, 9mm, etc.), at least at our current levels of affordable technology. I do not have the links in front of me but one dealt with the initial development of the cut down .45s that lead to the original Detonics pistols so one could search on that. The other article I stumbled across trying to find a somewhat inexpensive, computer-interfaced unit that would measure the force to compress a spring from X to Y. By less expensive I mean less expensive than Dvorak units, which I would buy in a second if I hit the lottery. Anyway, there is a good article out there that explains the dynamics of multiple springs over a single spring for certain applications, although it is not just about firearms.

[1911Tuner]

Dang...Plum forgot about that new recoil system in the Defender and Springer Micro. Yeah...Primary spring in backward could climb over the plug and tie it up.


Frodo queried:

>I wonder what it would have taken Colt to finish both ends of the outside spring so it could be inserted either way? ...Like if anyone at Colt reads this.<
************************

They do read it. The way that the springs are made will give you an answer.
They're not made one at a time, but rather cut from one long wire, wound, and finished on one end by a single machine. Finishing the other end is unnecessary and adds cost to the finished product because of having to set it up in a separate machine. Also the possibility of a problem with closing the front similarly to the rear, and running into a binding condition when the spring compresses over the end of a properly spec-ed guide rod. Remember that the rear is correctly sized to press-fit onto the rod. If the front also press-fits, interference could result in some guns and/or some guide rods.

I'm with stans on the KISS principle, and also firmly convinced that 1911-based pistols with slides and barrels that short aren't as reliable across the board as the 5-inch guns. Commander-length (4.25 inch) is about the limit, and even some of those can be a little persnickety. I think the little blasters are as cute as a bug...but I wouldn't trust my life to one.

[emiddio]

so why did it fail ? what failed?

my feb/98 acquired defender -- with wood grips.


http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a376/emiddio/DSCN1865.jpg