M1911A1 Ithaca need your advice!

[aconway]

I hope this pic comes out..Question, its a nice tight, original (I am pretty sure) but butt ugly gun. Would you have it re-parked or keep as it is..?
I am torn on what to do with it..
The Ser# range is 126765X
Please LMK what you all think and I'd be all ears on any thoughts..thanks!
I'd be happy to give more info , just LMK and I'll give it my best try..:)
This gun is super tight but just rusted and ugly. I don't want to ruin the value(whatever that may be) by re-parking, but I'd like one that looks better of course.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b217/conwaymac/5cbd99e6.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b217/conwaymac/989e26a6.jpg

[Ric4509]

aconway - with the rust and pitting the pistol's value had substantially dropped. My advice is to bring it to a reputable gunsmith to give it a facelift, take care of the pitting, parkerize it and it'll look brand new. How's the barrel and internal parts?

[doubleaes2]

Ditto---clean her up and shoot the snot out of it.

[aconway]

Thanks for the advice..internal parts are excellent. Just the outside rust. Can anyone recommened a good gunsmith to do a re-park job on this gun for me? I live in the KC area, but I could ship it as well. Also, what does an average parkerize job cost?
I am thinking that would be the way to go...providing it wouldn't cost an arm and a leg to have it done.
It would really be a sweet gun ....thanks

[PZ93C]

Bill Adair would do a great job restoring that baby. He specializes in 1911's.

http://www.restoration-gunsmith.com/

Brian

[aconway]

Awesome, thanks Brian..

[exitwounds]

A simple ultrasonic cleaning would help the weapon and keep the original finish intact. If you are set on restoration, then Bill Adair is the man.

[bgiven]

Hold on.... stop the BUS !!!!! Anybody think about why that Ithaca is rusted and pitted so badly.....SALT WATER..... that serial number puts it in the range of a Navy shipment (1209150 - 1274132)..... If that is a Navy Ithaca, I would be inclined to clean it up, and leave it alone.....Bill Adair does wonderful work, but even he wouldn't touch that puppy if its a Navy.....

[stans]

If it is a Navy pistol, clean it and then keep is well oiled.

[aconway]

bgiven-
Holy cow batman...! No kidding? Where could I dig or could I dig more on finding out if it is a Navy pistol?? That is VERY interesting...
Thanks for bringing that to my attention. What would it be worth being Navy vs not??
This is my only M1911A! so I am "green" about them.
thanks..:)

[OD*]

Bill Adair does wonderful work, but even he wouldn't touch that puppy if its a Navy.....

Why is that? He's done Navy's in the past.

[exitwounds]

Since Ithaca pistols were in non-sequential order from beginning of production until about Serial No. 1453725, is there specific info linking this pistol to a Navy shipment? Just curious, since I've only seen records above the 1.4m range myself.

[bgiven]

I purchased a copy of Ithaca shipping records to the Naval Supply Depot in Oakland, Ca. March 1944, for my s/n - 12638XX, which included copies of the shipping order, bill of lading, and packing list by serial number for 4 crates of 50 pistols each. All the documents cross reference each other by B/L number, invoice number, procurement reference number, shipping order number, crate numbers and of course contract number. Since the serial numbers are all non-sequential, it is sometimes hard to find a specific serial number, but well worth the chase.

In the case of 12676XX, the only way to verify, is to find a source with access to the Ithaca shipping records. There seem to be a few sets scattered around. I do not have a direct source, but when you find one expect to pay about $150 with no guarantee of shipping destination results. I rolled the dice on mine, since I knew it came off a ship, and sure enough it showed up in the March 27, 1944 shipment to Oakland.

[aconway]

Nice advice bgiven..I appreciate that..:) Just curious as to the condition of your Ithaca..?

[bgiven]

IMHO is about 95% with light holster wear at the muzzel. The issued GI was a sweater so there is more front strap discoloration, combined with environment elements, than normal. Otherwise it is very crispy..... also got the issued 1943 G&K M1916 holster and original shipping box. It all looks good together, especially with the documents.

Thanks for asking, and good luck with your serial number.

[Scott Gahimer]

Hold on.... stop the BUS !!!!! Anybody think about why that Ithaca is rusted and pitted so badly.....SALT WATER..... that serial number puts in the range of a Navy shipment (1209150 - 1274132)..... If that is a Navy Ithaca, I would be inclined to clean it up, and leave it alone.....Bill Adair does wonderful work, but even he wouldn't touch that puppy if its a Navy.....

1209150-1274132 is not exactly a Navy serial range. That range represents about 65,000 pistols, of which only 5,000 were the Navy pistols. That serial range listed for the 5000 Navy guns means the lowest and highest numbered guns in that shipment to the Navy were 1209150 and 1274132.
There were only 70,917 total in the entire 2nd contract for Ithaca. There were 42 different shipments with guns that were not shipped in numerical order. Without specifically searching the Ithaca records, there is no way of knowing which of the 42 shipments this gun was in. Because those guns were not shipped in numerical order, those records are a bear to search. Like looking for a needle in the haystack. The records that are available are not fully complete either. This gun may not even show up in the existing records, but we know it was in that 2nd contract regardless.
I've seen a lot of rusted and pitted guns that were not shipped to the Navy.

[aconway]

Scott-

Where would be a good place to start in finding the shipping records if I want to "look for the needle"..?
Thanks for adding your input/information. This could be an addictive fun in looking...:) What a reward it would be also just to find anything on it!
I have searched the web over trying to locate some place for the records but no luck yet.

[Scott Gahimer]

I have a copy of the actual Ithaca shipping records that were found a few years ago. I'll try to look for your pistol as I have time...1267652 IIRC. I'll check the Navy guns first; then any other significant shipments thereafter. I'll see if I can find it. There are potentially 14,621 numbers in 6 different shipments Mar. 13-Apr. 18, 1944 to check looking for your gun. Many of those specific numbers may actualy not be there, or be in such poor condition they are impossible to read. There are as many as 200 numbers per page (50 per case; 4 cases per page), or about 74 potential pages of records to locate and search. The numbers are in no particular order, so it's a bit of a chore to find anything.
Many of the records were in poor condition when copied, and are not completely legible. Some of the sheets were apparently previously destroyed or lost, and are not available at all. So... we'll see.

[aconway]

That would be mighty nice of you Scott. I know how time is, and its a precious thing...any help you give is highly appreciated.

thanks you!

[Scott Gahimer]

I've searched all the 6 shipments your pistol might have been listed in, and did not find it. As I said earlier, all the records did not survive. There were various missing sheets among those shipments. There is a chance I may have missed it, but more probable it was listed among those records that don't exist anymore.

The records of about 400 pistols are missing from Shipment #86 to Raritan; about 10 pistols from #88 to the Navy; about 100 pistols from #90 to Topeka; about 745 from #91 to Kearney and about 200 from #92 to Rock Island. None missing from #95 to Hamilton Field.
Shipment #87 was complete and to Flannery Bolt Co.
No records exist for possible shipments #s 89, 93 and 94. Those shipments may have not included any pistols, and may not have been copied.

Based on the records missing, your pistol seems most likely to have been shipped to Raritan or Kearney. But that is merely speculation. Here's another take on it:

Records for Shipment #86 to Raritan are 80% complete
Shipment #87 to Flannery Bolt is 100% complete
Shipment #88 to the Navy is 99.8% complete
Shipment #89 may not even deal with pistols??? It's not listed.
Shipment #90 to Topeka is 90% complete
Shipment #91 to Kearney is 25.5% complete
Shipment #92 to Rick Island is 95% complete
Shipment #93 may not even deal with pistols??? It's not listed.
Shipment #94 may not even deal with pistols??? It's not listed.
Shipment #95 to Hamilton Field is 100% complete

[aconway]

Thanks again Scott and everyone else that helped me. Anyway, my guns headed to Mr. Adair for a fresh look. I can't wait to see it after he's finished. I'll be sure to post some before and afters of it..:)

[OD*]

You'll be very pleased with Bill's work, he has done two for me.

[aconway]

I like hearing that..!

[191145]

Bill did a post-war commercial gov model for me, but I haven't seen any of his Parkerizing. Has anybody? My 1953, which had been buffed and re-blued at least once, was done up in 'brush' finish blue all over like the pre-war M1911A1. All the markings had to be restored, which is Bill's speciality.

[OD*]

Bill does excellent parkerizing.

http://www.restoration-gunsmith.com/1911A1Gallery.html