COLT's COMEBACK!

[OD*]

John Taffin has an article in American Handgunner March/April edition on Colt's comeback. Now that he's put it in print, maybe folks will believe those who have been saying that exact thing for several years now. :confused:

[wybulldog19]

I read this article too! Interesting comments were made about the possibility of Colt producing double action revolvers once again. Apparently they are evaluating that option. Also, Taffin promised more articles about Colt and there offerings. I for one am finally glad to see Colt so start seeing some coverage in the gun rags, seems like this hasn't been the case since the late 80's early 90's....

SOunds like good things in store for Colt in the future which equates to great things for us!!!

[.45FMJoe]

In American Handgunnner? Did that Alex Hamilton take a break for at least one issue of his Colt bashing since this article was in it? I hate that guy, I wish he would go away...

[Hunter]

Wow, I have been writing this for a few years, now someone "important" has written it maybe folks will take notice.

[d90king]

This will also help very nicely. ;)
http://www.firearmstrainingandtactics.com/forums/showthread.php?116-Colt-Tactical-A-New-Era-Has-Begun%21

[silversport]

Wow, I have been writing this for a few years, now someone "important" has written it maybe folks will take notice.
...I listened to you Hunter... :D
Bill

[paul45]

Interesting comments were made about the possibility of Colt producing double action revolvers once again. Apparently they are evaluating that option.

I thought this would be interesting if one doesn't visit ColtForum.....

http://www.coltforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24854

[SiGfever]

I can not speak to Colt's past quality except for my Gen 1 SAA which looks like it did in 1934, but my newly acquired Combat Elite is a very well made firearm.
There are no off center issues and the fit and finish are great. It runs like a scalded dog and the trigger is light and crisp.

Since Colt had to release the "TDP" back to the Army now the civilian market should be of more focus for them. I for one am glad to the see the "Legend" return to it's rightful place. Good on you Colt!

[.45FMJoe]

Since Colt had to release the "TDP" back to the Army now the civilian market should be of more focus for them. I for one am glad to the see the "Legend" return to it's rightful place. Good on you Colt!

No, sir! Colt's still owns the M16 TDP and the M4 Addendum. The military doesn't own anything! Their M4 contract had an built in sole provider expiration date. So now, if the military chooses to do so, they can source M4 carbines from other manufacturers. But they will still have to pay Colt royalties for every unit, just like they do for the M16A4. ;)

[OD*]

No, sir! Colt's still owns the M16 TDP and the M4 Addendum. The military doesn't own anything!No, they lost the M4 TDP in July of 2009, you are correct about Colt still owning the TDP for the M16 rifle.
Army acquires rights to M4 - Military Times (http://www.militarytimes.com/news/2009/07/army_carbine_070609w/)

Army acquires rights to M4

By Matthew Cox - Staff writer
Posted : Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 20:59:55 EDT

As of July 1, the Army has taken control of the design rights to the M4 carbine from its sole maker, Colt Defense LLC. Translation: With an uncertain budget looming, the service is free to give other gun companies a crack at a carbine contract.

The transition of ownership of the M4 technical data package marks the end of an era and Colt’s exclusive status as the only manufacturer of the M4 for the U.S. military for the past 15 years.
In late November, Army senior leadership announced the service’s intent to open a competition for a new carbine this fall in preparation for the June 30 expiration date of Colt’s hold on the M4 licensing agreement.

The Army is slated to finish fielding the last of its 473,000 M4 requirement some time next year.

Army weapons officials maintain that it’s good to have the option of inviting other gun companies to compete to make the M4 as it is now, if the need arises, said Col. Doug Tamilio, project manager for soldier weapons.

“We probably won’t do anything with it right now. ... We have what we need,” Tamilio said. “The good news is we will own it now; that gives us the flexibility to do what we need it to do.”

Small-arms companies waiting for the chance to compete for the Army’s next carbine view Colt’s loss of the M4 TDP as a new beginning for the industry and for soldiers serving in Iraq and Afghanistan.

“Now that the sole-source era is over, we hope to see free and open competition of any interim or long-term solution for the service rifle or carbine for the American soldier,” said Jason Schauble, vice president of the military products division of Remington. “Now there is a chance to get something better in the hands of the soldier. Why not do it? If Colt wins again, God bless them.”

Colt officials didn’t respond to a request for comment by press time.

Some in the small-arms industry say Colt’s 15-year control over the M4 is a natural part of the gun-making business.

“If a company designs and develops a product, they don’t do that for fun; they have a whole factory of people to feed,” said George Kontis, who is now the vice president of business development for Knights Armament Company but has worked for multiple small-arms firms since 1967.

“This is not anything new in history. It has always happened this way,” he said.

The next competition
For now, the Army is planning to begin a competition in October that could produce a new carbine by sometime in 2012, but there are no guarantees, weapons officials maintain.

Before that can happen, the Army’s updated carbine requirement — the document that lays out what the service wants in the future weapon — still has to clear the senior Army leadership and win joint approval, he said.

Funding is another uncertainty, he said. The Army can’t begin the request for proposal process this year if the fiscal 2010 defense authorization bill doesn’t include the start-up costs for the venture, Tamilio said.

“I don’t need a lot of money,” Tamilio said. “I think it’s less than $10 million for fiscal year 2010. ... It’s obviously tied into the president’s budget in 2010.”

Colt still owns the TDP for the M16 rifle, but its status as the sole supplier for the military ended in the late 1980s, when FN Manufacturing LLC won its first contract. The Army still uses versions of the M16, but stopped buying them when it decided to field M4s to all deploying combat units in 2006.

The M4 became the subject of congressional scrutiny in 2007 when lawmakers expressed concerned about whether soldiers had the best available weapon.

In November 2007, the weapon finished last in an Army reliability test against other carbines. The M4 suffered more stoppages than the combined number of jams by the other three competitors: the Heckler & Koch XM8; FNH USA’s Special Operations Forces Combat Assault Rifle, or SCAR; and the H&K 416.

Army weapons officials agreed to perform the dust test after a July 2007 request by Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla. Coburn took up the issue after a Feb. 26, 2007, Army Times report on moves by elite Army special operations units to ditch the M4 in favor of carbines they consider more reliable.

U.S. Special Operations Command decided to move away from the M4 in November 2004 when the command awarded a developmental contract to FN Herstal to develop its SCAR to replace its M4s and older M16s.

In November, gun makers from across the country attended an Army small-arms industry day in November designed to give weapons officials a look at what is available on the commercial market. There, Army Secretary Pete Geren announced that he had directed the Army’s Infantry Center at Fort Benning, Ga., to update the carbine requirement in preparation for a search for a replacement for the M4.

“If there are no significant issues, I think [the updated requirement] can move through” the Army validation process and receive the blessing of the Joint Requirements Oversight Council, Tamilio said.

If that happens, the Army plans to release a draft request for proposal to the small-arms industry in October and a formal RFP early next year, weapons officials maintain.

The first round of testing will likely begin late next summer and last though summer 2011.

Once a weapon is selected in late fiscal 2011, weapons officials hope to have operational testing and a full rate-production decision by late summer in 2012, Tamilio said.

One of the most critical parts of this process will be the three to five months between the draft RFP and the release of the formal RFP, when the industry has the chance to digest and understand what the Army wants in a new carbine, he said.

“Those discussions we have with industry will be vital to getting the real RFP on the street and that should really make for a solid competition,” he said.

[SiGfever]

No, sir! Colt's still owns the M16 TDP and the M4 Addendum. The military doesn't own anything! Their M4 contract had an built in sole provider expiration date. So now, if the military chooses to do so, they can source M4 carbines from other manufacturers. But they will still have to pay Colt royalties for every unit, just like they do for the M16A4. ;)
Sorry that I did not specify the "M4 TDP".

[Dutch1911]

For what it's worth....
Colt is still Top Dog in my world...

New Combat Elite order was sent in yesterday!

I await the arrival with baited breath!

Dutch1911
1/*

[.45FMJoe]

No, they lost the M4 TDP in July of 2009, you are correct about Colt still owning the TDP for the M16 rifle.
Army acquires rights to M4 - Military Times (http://www.militarytimes.com/news/2009/07/army_carbine_070609w/)

Sorry that I did not specify the "M4 TDP".

Well I'll be darned. Huh. I'm really not sure that is correct, I'll have to ask a buddy on another forum who used to work for Colt. He still has friends there. I have been wrong before, though. :D

[OD*]

The guy that wrote the article could be wrong too.

http://www.defensereview.com/colt-defense-rebuts-matt-coxs-army-times-article-army-acquires-rights-to-m4/

[.45FMJoe]

The guy that wrote the article could be wrong too.

http://www.defensereview.com/colt-defense-rebuts-matt-coxs-army-times-article-army-acquires-rights-to-m4/

Right, right, right. Now I remember that correction. Yup, he was wrong. Colt owns the M16 TDP and the M4 Addendum. :)

[SiGfever]

Right, right, right. Now I remember that correction. Yup, he was wrong. Colt owns the M16 TDP and the M4 Addendum. :)
Good to know. Colt makes quality firearms and it seems now they are courting the civilian market a little more which means more fine Colt's on the horizon.

Now to pay down the CC and fine me a nice SS Commander for EDC.

[Joni Lynn]

I'd be happy to see Colt growing their market. I can always make room for a few more Colts.

[.45FMJoe]

Good to know. Colt makes quality firearms and it seems now they are courting the civilian market a little more which means more fine Colt's on the horizon.

Now to pay down the CC and fine me a nice SS Commander for EDC.

I agree, my AR-15s are Colt and BCM. Though Spike's Tactical here in FL has really been making waves. Tom the VP is making some cool stuff, too. Just like my 1911s, I only invest in quality and as with the 1911 market there just aren't a lot of quality manufacturers. Well, my opinion anyway but I guess I'm biased. :p

[.45FMJoe]

I'd be happy to see Colt growing their market. I can always make room for a few more Colts.

Well it was bound to happen after they spent however many millions of dollars on infrastructure upgrades and more CNC equipment last year. I was going to buy one of those Sig P238s to replace the LCP that lives in my right pocket but I think I'm going to wait. Maybe, just maybe we will see the return of the original...

:lh:

[SiGfever]

I agree, my AR-15s are Colt and BCM. Though Spike's Tactical here in FL has really been making waves. Tom the VP is making some cool stuff, too. Just like my 1911s, I only invest in quality and as with the 1911 market there just aren't a lot of quality manufacturers. Well, my opinion anyway but I guess I'm biased. :p
A BCM "Middy" or a 6920 will be my next AR. It would be nice if it was a http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/1416/bowdown3xd.gif Colt "middy".

[Frank]

The magazine was in today's mail. I saw the article and will have to read it tomorrow. Always enjoy John Taffin.

DVC

[Spyros]

I saw the article in AH's website a few days ago... even if Colt's existence isn't something new, maybe some Colt fans can carry the issue to gun shop owners who claim that Colt stopped selling pistols years ago...

The editor's article on combat accuracy, in the last page, is a really good read, too.

[OD*]

I saw the article in AH's website a few days ago... even if Colt's existence isn't something new, maybe some Colt fans can carry the issue to gun shop owners who claim that Colt stopped selling pistols years ago...

The editor's article on combat accuracy, in the last page, is a really good read, too.Do you have a link to the Colt article, I couldn't find it on line to link to.

[Joni Lynn]

My next AR will probably be a Colt 6940 if for no other reason than it's a Colt and I like the look of it. If there's another after that maybe a 6920 will come home as well.
Maybe in a couple years when the price has dropped a bit from where it will probably be and availability is better than it usually is the first few years I'll bring home the new Colt gas piston AR. No hurry.

[d90king]

My next AR will probably be a Colt 6940 if for no other reason than it's a Colt and I like the look of it. If there's another after that maybe a 6920 will come home as well.
Maybe in a couple years when the price has dropped a bit form where it will probably be and availability is better than it usually is the first few years I'll bring home the new Colt gas piston AR. No hurry.


Hey Joni! I hope all is well with you and yours...

The 6940 is an excellent rifle and is also very accurate. That said it makes a better bench rifle than it does a training carbine. The 7" rail is a little short to get proper extension if using it for drills or classes.

But like this, it makes an excellent shooter. :D SOPMOD stock, Leupold CQT 1-3X14 and a Harris 6-9" in a Larue mount.
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/IMG_0266.jpg
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/DSCN1177.jpg

[Spyros]

Hmm, it's nice to see a couple of HK-93/G3s in these pictures...

Sorry, I know the subject is Colts, but I'm kinda partial to those!

[d90king]

Hmm, it's nice to see a couple of HK-93/G3s in these pictures...

Sorry, I know the subject is Colts, but I'm kinda partial to those!

HK makes a fine rifle! I prefer the HK 93/33 with the slim handguard. ;) I prefer the FAL Para to a G3 though...

[Spyros]

I prefer the FAL Para to a G3 though...
Shhh... I do too, but don't tell my old army buddies...

[ddt944]

I'm not fire starting, but I just got my XSE Commander and there are a lot of things left to be said about the quality of Colt right now. Even theri customer service said they are working out the"issues".

[Cleveland]

My take is Colt has been coming back for some time. I'd bet Colt is going to start advertising again in gun mags so that why they are willing to do reviews now.

[OD*]

Thank you, rekladan; http://fmgpublications.ipaperus.com/FMGPublications/AmericanHandgunner/AHMA10/?page=52

[d90king]

Shhh... I do too, but don't tell my old army buddies...


I promise, I wont tell a single soul. :D

[Deadman]

well, I am glad to see that Colt is indeed improving. I do not own a Colt yet, as they have had their issues from reading the forum. but everyone else does too.
this reminds me of how Harley was during the AMF years, and it took them a long time to straighten out. but just like Colt to some their was no other bike, and we stuck by them like you folks here...

" if it ain't a Colt, it's a copy "

my collection is being built backwards. high end custom 1911 first, then a Browning High Power, with some up grades...
next on the list, a Government Model Colt.

been seeing a few more around now, and the fondling is leading to a new aquisition soon. they are a fine pistol, and after all the original.
good luck to Colt.

[royal barnes]

Colt went through a time with their SAA's where quality was so-so to horrible. The current 3rd Generations are, IMHO, the finest Colt has ever built. I also own 4 Colt 1911's from a Government Model to a New Agent and none have had any quality control or functional issues. I sympathize with those who have and I feel very fortunate. But when all the dust settles it is still a Colt!

[paul45]

well, I am glad to see that Colt is indeed improving. I do not own a Colt yet, as they have had their issues from reading the forum. but everyone else does too.
next on the list, a Government Model Colt.

been seeing a few more around now, and the fondling is leading to a new aquisition soon. they are a fine pistol, and after all the original.
good luck to Colt.

I am glad to see you are looking at a Colt.

Not having one "from reading the forum" is a huge mistake. As you said ...."everyone else has their issues too". That would include your high end 1911 and your HP.

[Rio Vista Slim]

When I first joined this forum I owned Kimbers. In my youth I owned Colts. My first couple of weeks on the forum convinced me that Hunter either worked for Colt, or was a "nut"!!!!!!!!!

But, the more I read, the more I studied, and most importantly, the more I remembered, I began to come around. My first "new" Colt purchase was for the XSE Lightweight Commander model. After that, two current production Series 70 pistols were purchased. Then, the last of the Kimbers went toward the acquisition of a Model 04691 Commander, and a Model 04091U Stainless Commander. Finally, Hunter's review of the Colt New Agent convinced me to buy one of those. Hunter, by the way, is a close personal friend, now! He's "nuts", but then, so am I!!!!!!!!!

Every current Colt I've owned or presently own has functioned with 100% reliability with any commercially available ammunition I've used. To be even more specific, a young friend came out to the place the other day with his new Glock 17. Up to that point, I'd never seen a Glock 17 malfunction with factory ammo. I DID that day! He wanted to shoot one of my Colts, so I told him to pick the one he wanted to use. He picked my Model 01070A1CS Brushed Stainless Government pistol. I loaded up Tripp Research CobraMags, Colt (Checkmate) factory mags, Wolff (Novak/ACT) mags, etc., and 150 rounds later you couldn't have wiped the smile off his face with a thermo-nuclear blast!

I look forward, with GREAT anticipation, to the re-emergence of Colt as a force to be reckoned with in the gun-buying marketplace!

[Nikolai]

I welcome the upswing in any manufacturers business, but I'll never own a Colt. Slim, you may have mine!

-Nikolai

[SperlingPE]

With the "comeback" should come new (old) models.....like the CCO

[paul45]

I welcome the upswing in any manufacturers business, but I'll never own a Colt. Slim, you may have mine!

-Nikolai

Really? What happened? I would be interested in hearing.

Slim, I would be overnighting the FFL now! :D

[paul45]

With the "comeback" should come new (old) models.....like the CCO
I read on the other forum that apparently there is an example at the shot show.

[Deadman]

my decision to not buy a Colt as of yet was not based soley on reading forums...
I realize that when someone has a problem they are more likely to complain, and I don't blame them. and there have been some " issues ".

I don't see that many Colt's in shops around me, and the few I was interested in dind't meet my requirements. there are more on shelves now, and they are looking mighty tempting. fit and finish more of what I would expect from Colt.

[Nikolai]

Really? What happened? I would be interested in hearing.

Slim, I would be overnighting the FFL now! :D

Paul, what I meant was that I'll never own a Colt, and the one that's reserved for me you guys can split up for parts! I haven't owned one and gotten rid of it, or trying to rid myself of a Colt. Sorry my words weren't better.

Not intended to flame, my reason for disliking Colt is personal. Has nothing to do with rumors, quality, etc,. It has an equal amount of personal opinion, and an equal amount of common sense spending. To shed some light, in my area, a new production Colt with typical Colt equipment (small sights, etc,.) is usually $869-$989. For comparison ONLY, my SA Mil Spec is similarly outfitted (part quality or material is a non-issue as my MS has had 10,000+ trouble free rounds) and is several hundred dollars cheaper. Finish differs as well, but none of the Colt 1911s I've seen have had great bluing. I'd never throw this observance across the board of Colt, but it's true of the pistols at MY local gun shop. The QC on them is consistently lacking in all models I've personally handled, which admittedly is 5 in the last 2 years. Poorly fit parts in all but one of those 5, and the other had the same issue as the OP but a bit worse. Maybe they get uglier Colts, but for the price they charge, it's not feasible to buy a basic 1911 with subpar finish. My SA is a shooter, as are my Kimber 1911s and my Les Baer, so even by adding new sights so it's personally comfortable to shoot, I'm over $1000.

I love the simplicity of my Mil Spec, and I love the modern features of my other 1911s. I shoot marginally worse with the Mil Spec because of the sights being fairly difficult to see, but it's poor spending to spend twice as much on a similar pistol just to own a name that I don't care for. Colt, like Kimber and every other mass manufacturer, is just another name to me. I listen to the product, not the manufacturer. If it sings to me, I'll love it regardless of who stamped their name onto it. It's basic, and basic for me isn't worth what I'm being charged.

Again, I'm not comparing the SA to a Colt in terms other than equipment, and mainly sights. The trigger on my SA is factory, and it's great. I'm not comparing build process, material, small parts, etc,. My interest is shootability and price point, and that is my only basis of comparison. Again, it's PERSONAL, these are MY reasons, they may not be liked or agreed to, but such is life. If you love your Colt and all things Colt, then thank you for supporting another company. That's far more important than anybody's opinion.

[paul45]

Interesting to read your thoughts, thanks!

[Nikolai]

Thank you. Colt makes a fine pistol, I don't contest that fact. When I bought my SA, my friend bought a new Colt Commander. It's parked, ultra basic, and I lust for it. It's probably 10-12 years old..? He's had no problems from it. If I owned a Colt, it'd be a Commander, definitely used with local prices. I want to say his was about $200 more than mine.

I do so love his, but not because of it's lineage. Just a well made American 1911.

-Nikolai

[nanuk]

Wow, affordable Pythons!

[daveohno]

It's nice to read something that I already knew.

[Spyros]

Wow, affordable Pythons!
Huh? What? Where??

[paul45]

Huh? What? Where??Ha! At my local gun shop about 12 years ago!

[daveohno]

Ha! At my local gun shop about 12 years ago!

A Diamondback costs now as much as a Python did several years ago. Don't get me wrong, I like Diamondbacks and have several nice examples, but for the price of a Python? And now the beat up Pythons that are for sale are well over a thousand dollars...... :scared: