Safety Fast System by C & S Inc.

[Big Rack]

Does anyone have experience with these and could comment on usefullness, quality, value and installation? Thanks in advance.

[John]

Some time ago, I asked C&S if they could send me a sample for evaluation. The answer I got back, was that this was an expensive kit, and its price was above the limit they had for products they can send for evaluation. I think this is bull, so I just said "Thanks".

Sorry I have no answer to give you, I was not given the chance to evaluate their kit.

Rgds

[stans]

More parts to fail when you need them the most and a solution in search of a problem. Just my opinion.

[Doran]

I had Bill Laughridge install one for me several years ago; I highly recommend you do that if you want one. I got the equivalent of a HP trigger job for the price of the kit. I've put many rounds thru without any pblms and I like the fact you can prove the hammer was down to the authorities until necessary if you ever have to use it.

This is almost the same system as the LDA from Para_Ord.

[1911Tuner]

Doran said:

I like the fact you can prove the hammer was down to the authorities until necessary if you ever have to use
____________________

Howdy Doran, and welcome to El Commandante's Corner. :cool:

If your stated reason is your real concern, then the system has some merit...
but as stans noted, it's a solution in search of a problem. Also true is that
it provides a few more unnecesary things to go wrong. Tuner's law states
that: "The more gadgets it's got, the more Murphy it gets." Ol' Murphy
gives me enough grief without me handin' him an engraved invitation.

If your concern is the relative safety of carrying in Condition One, it's not an issue...and even the Series 80 system offers no safety advantage over a
pre-Series 80 for carrying cocked and locked. As far as the authorites go,
how can one prove that the hammer was cocked or not? As to that...if it's a clean shoot, it won't matter unless you fired unintentionally...in which case,
the readiness condition BEFORE the shot won't matter either.

Too many gadgets prompt the question: "What is it for?" The answer to which is: "To SELL!" Such things prey on the shooter's concern for safe carry with instant readiness, but when the gun is in Condition One, it's no more or less safe than you are. If you don't want the gun to fire, don't pull the trigger. Bottom line...It's a gun. It's NOT safe.

Luck!

Tuner

[Doran]

I think it helps your case if you can at least show the pistol didn't have to be "cocked" until you needed to shoot.

The kit also included an ambi safety and extended slide stop along with the improved trigger pull; although I eventually put the original slide stop back on. I never had a bite pblm on this pistol but the hammer is spurless also. I think I paid $150 and Bill put it on for free. I'm happy with mine but not everybody might like one.

[stans]

I don't mean to start a urination contest, but how exactly can you prove that you did not cock the pistol before firing? Is there a flight data recorder on this device that records this information? If not, it becomes a case of one person's word against another. The only firearm which can provide ironclad evidence the the gun was not cocked before firing is one that is double action only and has no single action capability.

And I agree, if it is a righteous shoot, it will not be an issue.

[Brian D.]

Gadzooks it's tough to follow 1911 Tuner on stage, he gets all the good lines! :D Anyhow, in addition to what the Terrific Tarheel said, can't see myself or any other old "cocked 'n' locked" dogs learning this new trick. Could even see folks like us messing up with this weird manual of arms. Pushing the hammer forward???--dang that's creepy to me.

[Doran]

http://www.cylinder-slide.com/SFScustommod.shtml

I think this article addresses most of the issues raised. I'll respond to a few of the others.

I have a few DAO revolvers around the house also. Some built that way, some modified to be that way.

After the prosecuter/plantiff's atty gets thru waving my SFS around with the hammer back, my atty will demonstrate how it really works. Then it will be my testimony, the homeowner, against the home invader about whether the hammer was fwd or back. I'm comfortable with that.

I have a "few" 1911s and HiPowers and have owned SA autos since 1969. I'm comfortable with that mode of oprn also. I only do that out of a holster though.

From what I can discover this system has been around since about 1979. I haven't heard of/read about any failures. This torsion style hammer is used on the LDA as I said and by Daewoo. I haven't heard/read anything bad about those either.

[1911Tuner]

Howdy Doran...I'm havin' a little trouble understanding your reasoning and mindset on this issue. While you might run into a problem if the gun has a modified or deactivated safety mechanism, I think that you're probably a little too concerned with the gun being cocked or not. It may be an issue with a double-action revolver, but if the gun is designed to fire single-action only, a
prosecuting attorney can only focus on your justification. If all you had at hand to defend your home and family was a Mossberg 500 shotgun...it would be much the same thing. It will only fire one way, and you can't be faulted for making it ready to fire. The only difference is that you can't SEE the cocked hammer on the shotgun...It's still cocked.

Quote:

"After the prosecuter/plantiff's atty gets thru waving my SFS around with the hammer back, my atty will demonstrate how it really works."

Assuming that: A... The question even comes up, and: B...That there wasn't
an issue of shoot/don't shoot, and you had an unintended/negligent discharge.
_______________________

Quote:

"Then it will be my testimony, the homeowner, against the home invader about whether the hammer was fwd or back."

Assuming that: A...He's still alive to offer testimony, and: B...that he even noticed the hammer while staring down the muzzle, and: C...that he tells the truth about it.

F'rinstance: If the cocked hammer issue comes up...what's to stop him
from lying about it and swearing that the hammer was cocked? The SFS
does require that the hammer be cocked before it will fire the gun...right?
Cocked is cocked...whether you carried into the fight that way...thumbed it back just as the confrontation began...or cocked it with the thumb safety.
Cocked is cocked. Shot is shot. The only question will be whether you were justified in firing.

If you're this concerned, the answer isn't a gadget that's unnecessary, expensive, and adds a good measure of Murphy to the gun. The answer is a double-action revolver...which will serve just as well for a home-defense gun,
and is much cheaper and easier to modify to DAO operation. I carry a
cocked and locked 1911...My nightstand gun is a revolver.

Luck to ya, lad!

Tuner