Remington Rand #987XXX

[stageman]

Hello All,
I have had my Grandfather's m1911a1 (he joined the Army as an officer at the age of 40 right after Pearl Harbor) for a number of years, now. When I got it, I cleaned and oiled it following the instructions on Bob Tuley's site and have kept it in a gun safe ever since.
It is a Remington Rand No.987XXX. There is no rust or big scratches. I also have the black GI holster and two clips with leather cases. I remember my Grandad shooting it once at a family target outing 37 years ago.
I would like to shoot this pistol. It seems a shame for it to languish in a safe. Would using the gun affect its value? Should I insure the weapon?
Thanks!
See pictures further down the thread

[Chief]

My opinion (and I am sure some of you will disagree) is that the true value of that .45 is as a family heirloom. I personally would shoot it, a little. To me, collecting things to look at and not use is silly. Imagine having a victorias secret model for a girlfriend and just looking at her naked but not touching her. :rolleyes:

[Scott Gahimer]

The Victoria's Secret model will age and shrivel with time, perhaps losing some of her perceived beauty. :eek:
An original collectible .45, well taken care of, will last for generations upon generations to admire. :cool:
There are shooters and there are collectibles. Without a much more thorough description, I don't know which this gun is. Either way, with an heirloom, I would prefer having just the way my grand dad left it to me. The real value IMO lies in the fact it was his just like it is now.
I personally would relegate another gun to use as a shooter. But as Chief says, there are many equallly valuable opinions one might consider.

[Mathew]

If the gun is not MINT, I would at least shoot it once just to get it out of my system. Then I would clean it, and admire it. You'll never sell it and part of enjoying it is to shoot it. Maybe 50 rounds a year. This way you can keep its condition while enjoying everything it has to offer. We'd love to see it, so take some pictures and post! ;)


Here is my Remington: http://mathewc.com/remingtonrand/images/DSC03182.JPG

http://mathewc.com/remingtonrand/

[stageman]

Thanks for the responses. I plan on taking some photos and posting them. It looks to me that the gun is in really good shape and it would be nice to confirm that it has all the right stuff. I do treasure the 1911 and feel very lucky to have it.

[1911slabsides]

I say shoot it. If you don't shoot thousands and thousands of rounds it will hold up just fine, Personally, I think putting a gun in and out of a holster does more damage to it than shooting it does.

BTW your grandpa, must have been a good man to join the army at 40 years of age. These days if there is an attack on america, most 40 years olds just put an american flag on their car antenna and leave it at that.

[stageman]

Slabsides,
Thanks for your input. Interesting story about my Ol' Pap:
He was a PT instructor and also went from new base to new base across the states pulling together training and rec facilities. At his first assignment in North Carolina, he was the only officer with a real side arm (all the other weapons on base were wooden). He would check out his .45 to the sentry at each watch. It was that gun that he turned back in at the end of the war. He kept the Remington Rand as it was in much better shape. Just before the surrender of the Japanese in the face of the atom bomb, he was getting ready to ship out to the Pacific for the invasion of Japan. It shows you how bad they thought it was going to be if they were sending 40+ year olds into the fighting. He was a good man. I miss him.
Stageman

[stageman]

Here are some photos of my Ol' Pap's 1911
Cheers,
Stageman

http://tinypic.com/365y1
http://tinypic.com/36621
http://tinypic.com/3663s
http://tinypic.com/3664j

[1911slabsides]

Wow that's a decent looking Rand,

[stageman]

Thanks. What is the best way to maintain the finish? I don't keep it in the holster. It is kept in a locked gun safe. I have cleaned and oiled it a couple of times.

[1911slabsides]

The holster in my humble opinion, tears up the finish, Just keep it oiled and it will outlast you and a few other generations, the finish itself protects the gun, it looks like there is a lot of finish on that gun, I don't know where you are on the gun game, but WD40 doesn't count as a good oil, it's bad for the finish, any gun oil will work just fine, you don't have to get that fancy $40.00 per ounce stuff Outers works just fine,

BTW I really don't think shooting it 50 to 100 rounds a month is going to hurt it, You might want to change out the recoil spring every couple of thousand rounds, and keep it at the stock 16 lbs, It will outlast all of us.

[stageman]

Altough I shot quite a lot at my Uncle's place in the country when I was a kid, I have just become interested in shooting again. So I am doing as much research as I can and I did hear that wd-40 was bad news. I have been using a Hopps cleaning kit and it seems to work fine. Thanks for the comments.

[1911slabsides]

you are most welcome for my comments. I sort of understand that you are jittery about caring for a gun that holds so much family history, Don't worry you'll do just fine, Grandpa would shoot it if he were able wouldn't he, They made those old 1911's tough, you'll do just fine with it, Grandpa would be proud.

[Scott Gahimer]

Your pistol is a type 2 logo Du-Lite gun. From the photos I'm sure it is original finish and appears to be nearly new.
That pistol is worth in excess of $1500 as is. I'd think twice about putting any more wear on it. It's your gun and your choice, but I'd preserve this one and get another to shoot.

[RPM]

I have been using a product called Clenzoil for a number of years now as a preservative and have been impressed with the results. I live in a fairly arid part of the country and humidity is generally not much of a concern, though I do regularly reapply. I also use it on rifles, pistols and shotguns that I do shoot and it works great as a solvent as well.
BTW, I am not a pitchman, I just like the stuff. Plus, it doesn't smell like it will melt human flesh :)

[Mathew]

Looks real good man. Would love to see some closeups of the stampings.

[stageman]

Here is a higher resolution picture. I guess I exceeded my bandwidth at villiagephoto.com :confused:
http://tinypic.com/365y1
http://tinypic.com/36621

[1911slabsides]

I got to tell you Scott Gahimer, knows his 1911's, you may want to heed his suggestion about not firing the gun, I personally don't shoot any gun a whole heck of a lot myself, Maybe not shooting it is for the best, but if you do, I'd keep it down to a minimum.

[stageman]

I beginning to think along those lines, too. I guess I'll have to start looking for a "shooter". Thanks to all! I have gained alot of good information. What a good forum.

[stageman]

All,
I took my wife to a very nice local range to do some research for a book she is writing. While she was leaning about .38's, I put 25 rounds through my Ol' Pap's .45 and it was simply awesome. It was very smooth and I was able to plant several into the 10 and bullseye. What a thrill. I will treasure this piece of history.
Bob

[peanut]

Glad you put a few rounds through it. You would have always wondered what it would feel like.
As far as cleaning goes
Keep your fingers and others off it as much as possible. One of my slides was ruined by someone who had a very acidic PH balance and left 2x fingerprints which discoloured the slide.
I use a very thin oil like sewing machine oil and strip the gun completly lightly oiling every single part. Suggest you leave the grips off and seal them in a polybag so that no rust spots start out of sight under the grips. Make sure you oil the grip screws also.
I used to wrap mine in an oily rag, not very pretty but effective. :)

[jph712]

A half-blued magazine or is it a reflection?

[Scott Gahimer]

I think you are correct. One of the mags appears to be a two-tone. Two-tone mags were still in use at least into 1943, according to Clawson.
That mag would not have originally been shipped with the pistol from the factory, but may easily have been issued with it at some point while still in military use. It is not uncommon to find two-tones in WWII pistols.
A few years ago I received from a family member of a vet his 1943 Colt 1911A1 pistol he brought home with him and later passed down to the family member. It is 100% original finish condition. It came with two mags, a GI brass cleaning rod (originally from WWI era) and a 1940 dated field manual for the .45 pistol. One of the mags is a two-tone.
The pistol had been lubed and packed away by the vet shortly after coming home from the war. The grease had dried out to the point it flaked off like dust when I received the pistol and unwrapped it. The pistol was in an old vintage gun sock and wrapped in a newspaper. The date of the newspaper was January 1946.
Finding pistols like that are a testament as to what the guys still had access to in mid-1943. There is no doubt in my mind a lot of WWI issue stuff still remained in use during WWII and beyond.

[stageman]

Yes, indeed, the magazine is half-blued.Is that rare? It was the one in the pistol. The other two were on the pistol belt.
Cheers,
Bob

[Doran]

There might be some marks somewhere on the magazine baseplate that could tell who made it. You could be looking for A or B or R or L. Let us know what you find and we can go from there.

[John]

Glad you have such a nice piece.

My advice: If you do not care to sell it, shoot it to your heart contents. And please, do not keep it in the holster, either the pistol or the mags. Leather is absorbing moisture, which can destroy your gun.

Happy New Year

[stageman]

John,
Thanks. I will not ever sell the gun. It has too much sentimental value for me to part with. I will shoot it now and then as I think an object needs to be used rather than languishing away hidden from view. I do store it in a safe un-holstered.

Happy New Year!
Bob

[stageman]

Doran,
The half-blued magazine looks to have an "h" stamped on the upper forward side of the base plate.
Cheers and Happy New Year,
Bob

[Doran]

Doran,
The half-blued magazine looks to have an "h" stamped on the upper forward side of the base plate.
Cheers and Happy New Year,
Bob

"h" would be an unusual mark. Maybe it is an R that is only partially struck? That would be a Ridson Tool and Machine Company of Naugutack, CT. Does the top of the mark point towards the end of the lip or towards the magazine tube? Normal orientation of a R is top towards the magazine tube but I've seen pictures of one pointed the other way. Normal font style is gothic, without the little feet on the ends of the legs.