Ithaca serial number question

[Huss]

Please pardon this post as I may have asked this question before. I have been on other sites and can not remember which one's I received answers from.

My question, I have an Ithaca 1911 A 1 which was made in 44 or 45. The serial number has a stamped "DC" at the end of it. Can anyone tell me what this might stand for. It appears it was added after the serial number was placed on the gun but it was well done so that it appears to be part of the number.

Thanks in advance

[bgiven]

Welcome to the Fourm.

Since this is your first post, I doubt you asked this prior.... at least here. The 'DC' is not part of the original serial number.... and would have been added after military service. Unfortunately, if it can be considered as altering of the serial number, the BATF would have a serious problem with you owning/posessing this Ithaca.

[Huss]

Thanks for the info. The "DC" must not be considered part of the serial number as I have check the sales receipt from the dealer and it does not appear on it.

I have been told that the "DC" stands for Diplomatic Courier. Does anyone know if military weapons may have been used by other branches of the government which would have ID them with something like the "DC"?




Welcome to the Fourm.

Since this is your first post, I doubt you asked this prior.... at least here. The 'DC' is not part of the original serial number.... and would have been added after military service. Unfortunately, if it can be considered as altering of the serial number, the BATF would have a serious problem with you owning/posessing this Ithaca.

[bgiven]

I have been told that the "DC" stands for Diplomatic Courier. Does anyone know if military weapons may have been used by other branches of the government which would have ID them with something like the "DC"?

Certainly not that I'm aware of. After several years of collecting nothing but M1911s and A1s.... this is a first.

Please post a picture or two, so we know exactly what you are describing.

[Huss]

I am not a tech type but I will try to post pictures, until then, I also read that the Navy had some pistols with black grips they used in Viet Nam. This gun has black grips and the design is similar to those on other A1's I own other than they do not have any marking on the inside as does the others.

[bgiven]

The only black A1 military grips I am aware of were on the Argentine built Sistema pistols. To my knowledge all USGI bakelite grips were different shades of brown, depending on the manufacturer and specific model intended.

[Huss]

Photos

http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz285/Del551/IMG_0113.jpg

[bgiven]

I think there is a better chance that those are someone's initials at sometime in it's past. IMO, since it is in a larger size stamp than the serial number, and the USP markings, it probably doesn't hurt the serial number and it's legality.

[Huss]

Thanks again for the help.

[Huss]

More info: Can anyone tell me about 5000 Ithaca guns sent to the Navy in Oakland, Cal. in 1944 of which 25 were sent from there to Remington Rand for a parts interchangeability test. These 25 were subsequently marked with "DC" and returned to the Navy. The "DC" stood for Division "C" and were subsequently stamped on the remaining 5000 guns.

[bgiven]

In 1944 Ithaca shipped 22,500 M1911A1s to the Naval Supply Depot in Oakland, Ca. None of those pistols were subsequently shipped to the 'C' Division at RRand. All Ithaca production earmarked for Interchangeability Testing were shipped direct from Ithaca.

However, the 25 Ithacas that were shipped, Nov. 7, 1944 to the Resident Inspector of Ordnance, Remington Rand Corp., Division 'C', Syracuse, NY were serial numbers 2091522 thru 2091546.

[Huss]

As for the "DC" markings, do you know if the original 25 and others were so marked? One other question, I have heard that there is a Navy model 1911A1, what or are there any unusual markings on these gun?

Thanks again your info has been very helpful

[bgiven]

The last 'Navy' marked M1911 was in 1915. Any M1911A1 shipment direct to the Navy were noted by serial number range in actual shipping records. Colt and Ithaca shipping records are the only known recovered records. There are no mention, that I know of, in any of the reference books regarding any 'DC' markings.

[Huss]

Thanks again for the info and your assistance.

[Duane Hansen]

It would seem to me if there were some 5000 pistols with this DC marking, someone, somewhere would have surely seen another by now. I think that any speculation as to what it stands for would only be a wild guess. It could be most anything.

[Huss]

That's why am here.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Huss]

Considering just the serial number of the gun and disregarding the "DC" is it safe to say that it was included in a shipment to the Oakland Naval Supply Depot in November of 1944? And if so, is there any way to further track the weapon?

[bgiven]

Your serial number was shipped Nov. 17, 1944 to the Officer in Charge, Naval Supply Depot, Oakland, CA. in a shipment of 7,000 from Ithaca. Unless you have documented information from the original issued GI, there would be no way to track it any further. FYI it would not have been shipped with those black grips.

[rekladan]

IMO, since it is in a larger size stamp than the serial number, and the USP markings, it probably doesn't hurt the serial number and it's legality.
I'm not sure if the different font size in itself helps maintain the pistol's legality. Some recently-produced 1911s do have prefixes or suffixes with different-sized fonts than the numeric part of the S/N. Les Baer pistols, prefixed 'LB', come to mind.

[Huss]

bgivin,

Thanks for all of your information, you have been very helpful in giving me an understanding of this weapon's history.