Remington UMC 1911

[aktoklat]

This is my first post and I am a newbie here. Yesterday I was given a Remington 1911. The serial number is NO.195xxx and has "United States Property" on the left frame side just forward of the slide stop. The left side of the slide has three patent dates, Dec 19,1905,Feb14,1911 and Aug 19, 1913. The circled logo in the frame center has "Remington" with "UMC" below it. The lettering to the right of the logo has; "Manufactured By" "Remington Arms UMC Co. INC" "Bridgeport. Conn. USA" (total of three lines). The right side slide has the following in two lines;
"Model OF 1911"
"U.S. Army Caliber .45"

The letter "E" is located on the slide above the firing pin stop. The inspector's mark appears to be "GS" located inside a small circle above the magazine release button. The bottom of the magazine has "C-R" on the forward tang.

The pistol appears to be at least 95% condition for the surrace w/o any rust or pitts. The grips are non-orginal but replacements with a similar Diamond style checker walnut panels. The bad is it has adjustible Bo-Mar rear sights with a non-original front sight to accompany the rear sight. The pistol has a perfect slide to frame fitting and the trigger is crisp with no creep or over travel and breaks clean at about 3-4 pounds. Seems to me, many years ago someone with considerable talent took a great piece and made a type of "National Match" out of it. Any information you have to share about this weapon I would appreciate.

[RickB]

How does it shoot? That's where its value lies, since the collectibility is gone.
During WWI, with Colt unable to keep up with demand, M1911 contracts were signed with other companies to make pistols. Remington UMC was the only one to deliver complete pistols in any quantity. North American Arms made a few hundred pistols, and AJ Savage apparently made only slides. If the war had gone on into 1919, there would have probably been pistols made by others, as well.

[aktoklat]

I received it yesterday and have not shot it yet! This weekend I will get a chance to run a box or two down the barrel! Thanks for the comments!

[Johnny Peppers]

The frame is a 1911 Colt and the slide is a Remington UMC, which makes the pistol a Colt.
As a bit of history, Springfield Armory delivered more 1911 pistols than Remington-UMC. No pistols were delivered by any other contractor.
It wasn't a matter of Colt not being able to keep production up, but that the Ordnance Department wanted pistols in quantities much larger than Colt could have ever furnished. Almost 2 million pistols were contracted for, although most contracts were reduced in size before being cancelled, and no one contractor could have built that many pistols in the specified time.

[bgiven]

North American Arms made a few hundred pistols...

Supposedly only 104.....

[RickB]

Of which only 150 are known to still exist?

[bgiven]

Actually somewhere around 30......but back to the post.

Sounds to be a classic mixmaster with both WWI and WWII parts and components, with some modern enhancements mixed in as well. Pictures would certainly clear this up post haste.

[aktoklat]

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c83/aktoklat/umc1.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c83/aktoklat/umc2.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c83/aktoklat/umc3.jpg

The above is some eye candy of the pistol in the first post, thanks!

[rekladan]

That's an eye-catching shooter you have there... very likely refinished, on top of everything else, so shoot it and let us know how it performs!

[OD*]

Supposedly only 104.....
None were actually accepted by Ordnance, correct?

[bgiven]

None were actually accepted by Ordnance, correct?

Correct.... WWI ended before NAA could get regular production up and running. 104 pre-production tool room examples were all that they assembled.

[Scott Gahimer]

Correct.... WWI ended before NAA could get regular production up and running. 104 pre-production tool room examples were all that they assembled.

And I believe those had finish applied and were assembled well after the fact of their contract being cancelled. None were ever shipped to or accepted by the U.S. Government. Some parts used during assembly were not even fully completed...hammers without knurling.

Still they are interesting pistols, just technically not an M1911 because that is a military designation for accepted pistols.

The NAA are in a league of their own...not military accepted, and yet not really a typical commercial production piece.

[bgiven]

Still they are interesting pistols, just technically not an M1911 because that is a military designation for accepted pistols.

Of course there are some, that would argue that since it was produced under military contract, it is still considered a M1911. It would seem that since Clawson, Meadows, Goddard, Poyer and other authors, may agree since the NAA is included in all their M1911 reference books.

[Scott Gahimer]

I think most, including myself, would agree the NAA pistols are part of the M1911 story and deserve a chapter in the books.

There are several Trials pistols and some revolvers covered in the books, too. But they aren't M1911's either.

[Johnny Peppers]

Meadows includes all the companies that was awarded a contract it that makes any difference.
No one knows when the North American pistols were assembled. Since they did not reach a settlement with the U.S. until 1920, it is doubtful that they did anything until the settlement was reached.

[OD*]

Bob, Scott and Johnny, thanks gentlemen.

[Scott Gahimer]

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c83/aktoklat/umc3.jpg

The above is some eye candy of the pistol in the first post, thanks!

Someone care enough about this pistol to have it refinished and modified for shooting. While today this would not be a wise decision, years ago when this was probably done, that was a common practice.

Thanks for the great photos and sharing the information on your pistol.