I found something that doesn't belong..

[Cap]

I detailed stripped my new (to me) Commander last night.

everything looks fine and dandy and is now shinny new, clean and oiled

I found something that was rather disappointing to me though

a plastic MSH.....

I guess that's OK. I know my Para has one and I've had no issues with it.
But if i had my druthers, I'druther have steel

I also discovered the brushed stainless finish doesn't "glide" in and out of my leather very well.

Not quite sure what to do about that

oh, a dehorn is surely on the agenda as well


..L.T.A.

[FJC]

I agree with you, I much prefer a steel MSH on a full-sized or Commander pistol. I have full confidence in the plastic ones, given the purpose of the part - but just feels more quality when it's steel.

I'm fine with it on pistols designed to be lightweight, though, as every little bit helps.

[Landman]

I know they are reliable but I don't care for plastic mainspring housings either. I always change them out for an Ed Brown all steel arched mainspring housing. I've bought quite a few and all have fit perfectly and the finishes match nicely too. Below is a link to them.

http://www.edbrown.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.cgi/003428.1.569343398813237480

[paul45]

I agree with you, I much prefer a steel MSH on a full-sized or Commander pistol. I have full confidence in the plastic ones, given the purpose of the part - but just feels more quality when it's steel.

I'm fine with it on pistols designed to be lightweight, though, as every little bit helps.

You know, that is a good point. Although the nylon ones are virtually indestructible, they should only go on lightweight Colts. I guess I don't have a big issue with them in general.....but, you are right....a steel or aluminum one just seems better attention to detail.

[garrettwc]

I found something that was rather disappointing to me though

a plastic MSH.....

I guess that's OK. I know my Para has one and I've had no issues with it.
But if i had my druthers, I'druther have steel
Colt has been using the nylon mainspring housing since the birth of the 1991 (ORM) pistols. They have held up really well. On the one I had it was so well executed that I didn't know it was plastic until I took a magnet to it.


I also discovered the brushed stainless finish doesn't "glide" in and out of my leather very well.
A few hundred practice draws will take care of that. The holster will burnish the high spots and smooth them out.

oh, a dehorn is surely on the agenda as well
My one complaint about most Colts is that the slide can pass for a shaving razor in a pinch. :p

I really wish they would address that going forward. Especially now they have the CNC machines in there. A slight bevel cut or just a quick pass across the belt sander would solve the problem.

[FJC]

My one complaint about most Colts is that the slide can pass for a shaving razor in a pinch. :p

I really wish they would address that going forward. Especially now they have the CNC machines in there. A slight bevel cut or just a quick pass across the belt sander would solve the problem.

The Commander I bought about 6 years ago was like that. It was slicing up my thumb like a meat slicer. In fact, it was so sharp I didn't even feel it cutting my thumb; I realized it when I saw my shirt was splattered with blood. My thumb had a good 5-6 slices.

Now, the New Agent I just bought a couple days ago is perfect in that regard. The bottom edges of the slide are just beveled enough to solve that problem, while still looking "quality." Colt really should do that on all their 1911 slides.

[garrettwc]

In fact, it was so sharp I didn't even feel it cutting my thumb; I realized it when I saw my shirt was splattered with blood.
BTDT. I was on the range doing some assorted drills when I noticed a red stripe going down the side of my shirt. It had sliced my thumb just forward of the nail and I was wiping it on my shirt during the draw stroke. Never felt a thing.

[Captain_America]

The MSH's don't really bother me. Most that come on guns these days are flat so I immediately change them out for Ed Brown arched serrated ones. I got my stainless commander a few months ago. I sent it off to Coal Creek armory to have a short trigger put on it. While there I also had it dehorned and matte bead blasted. I'm so glad I did. It looks a whole lot better and feels great without all those sharp edges. The did good work for a reasonable fee and amount of time. Not very good pics but here she is.

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t130/mikeyjsc/commander3.jpg

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t130/mikeyjsc/Commander.jpg

[A.B.]

Great looking job they did! Very nice wood, too.

Geez, Cap, I missed your original post, congrats! :appld:

Mine holsters just great, now (what Garrett said, and it is also still a bit sharp in places). And +1 to the Ed Brown MSH.

[dakota1911]

Keep saying this, but I think Colt uses a Nylon or composit, not plastic, like PVC. I like flat MSHs and long triggers. I leave the Nylon ones on the guns and have not had and issue with them so far. I have had issues with steel ones.

[Cap]

Keep saying this, but I think Colt uses a Nylon or composit, not plastic, like PVC.

nylon, polyvinyl chloride, or what ever polymer the chemists at Dow, et al formulate..it's still plastic

I s'pose it must be durable enough.

An Ed Brown Bobtail is destined for it anyway

Garret, I'll give it a few hundred "in and outs" on my Galco.
Thanks


..L.T.A.

[Mick_In_Texas]

The MSH's don't really bother me. Most that come on guns these days are flat so I immediately change them out for Ed Brown arched serrated ones. I got my stainless commander a few months ago. I sent it off to Coal Creek armory to have a short trigger put on it. While there I also had it dehorned and matte bead blasted. I'm so glad I did. It looks a whole lot better and feels great without all those sharp edges. The did good work for a reasonable fee and amount of time. Not very good pics but here she is.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t130/mikeyjsc/commander3.jpg
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t130/mikeyjsc/Commander.jpg

... one BEAUTIFUL 1911. Just beautiful. Congratulations! I've had good luck with Ed Brown MSHs, and S & As, as well. Thanks for sharing. Take care, be safe.
Mick

[Mick_In_Texas]

... reckon I'll have to check my O1991's MSH, now! LoL... Gun buddy likes AOs, built a custom from scratch, officer's model, AO, used the nylon/composite MSH on that one. I reckon they're okay too, but like some, really prefer a steel MSH on my full-size, which currently are all I have. Y'all take care and be safe. Mick.

[Shoota]

I can't say that I'm the most pleased with a plastic MSH in my New Agent. I'm not sure if aluminum alloy is just as strong or stronger (my guess is that it is), but I would probably prefer that over nylon. That said, there are plenty of guns, e.g. Glock, that are made of the stuff and they hold up rather well. I'm not concerned about it, but I still have my preferences

[Mick_In_Texas]

I can't say that I'm the most pleased with a plastic MSH in my New Agent. I'm not sure if aluminum alloy is just as strong or stronger (my guess is that it is), but I would probably prefer that over nylon. That said, there are plenty of guns, e.g. Glock, that are made of the stuff and they hold up rather well. I'm not concerned about it, but I still have my preferences

Can't say I'll replace my O1991 MSH if it's composite. But, we do have our preferences, sir! Gun buddy has had good luck with his composite on that AO, it's his primary carry arm, and he has land outside city limits where he can shoot often. Like you, if O1991 is composite, don't know I'd really be concerned... but MIGHT replace. Take care, be safe, sir. Mick.

[FJC]

I'm curious if the aluminum ones weigh much more than the plastic ones. Obviously, the steel or stainless steel ones weigh a lot more.

Looks like the aluminum ones run around 17 grams, but I can't find any info on what the plastic ones weigh.

[OD*]

Colt has been using the nylon mainspring housing since the birth of the 1991 (ORM) pistols.
Longer than that Garrett, the Zylon MSHs intro'd in 1986.
You right though about their toughness, they are nearly indestructible.

[Shoota]

Can't say I'll replace my O1991 MSH if it's composite. But, we do have our preferences, sir! Gun buddy has had good luck with his composite on that AO, it's his primary carry arm, and he has land outside city limits where he can shoot often. Like you, if O1991 is composite, don't know I'd really be concerned... but MIGHT replace. Take care, be safe, sir. Mick.

Hey Mick,

I might consider replacing too, but I may wait to see if there is a failure. I am not carrying my NA right now, so it would be a range breakdown, if any, with no consequence. Of course, if I heard of failures left and right, I would reconsider. Stay safe as well. Phil

[Shoota]

I'm curious if the aluminum ones weigh much more than the plastic ones. Obviously, the steel or stainless steel ones weigh a lot more.

Looks like the aluminum ones run around 17 grams, but I can't find any info on what the plastic ones weigh.

My best guess is that they are very close in weight, perhaps insignificantly so, especially if one is tougher than the other.

My bigger concern is the retainer cap of the guide rod assembly, however I've mentioned this before on this forum, and most did not feel that it was a concern. The Para Ordnance compact uses a similar (at least similar looking)assembly, and they recommend changing the entire assembly every 800-1000 rounds, I believe. To me, this is quite frequent, and expensive maintenance. However, Colt is not recommending this, so it is probably just not an issue.

As for now, I'll stay with the current MSH. I will, however, keep monitoring the boards to hear of possible issues.

[rekladan]

George Smith at EGW has said that he has seen more problems with aluminium MSHs than with the nylon ones. The problem was gauling.

[NordicRX8]

Most that come on guns these days are flat so I immediately change them out for...


Ditto. Every one of my 1911 patterned guns have aftermarket arched MSHs.

Some Ed Brown, and mostly S&A. If the manufacturers had shipped them with arched MSHs to begin with, it wouldn't matter to me if they were made of a plastic... its a low stress part and as long as they are designed correctly, should last longer than my life expectancy.

[dakota1911]

I think I posted this out here before, but, anyway.

Mainspring Housings: Weights taken without any pins, springs, etc. Just the Housing.
> Flat grooved silver Nylon MSH from recent Commander 8.2 grams
> Flat grooved and blued steel from 1976 Gold Cup NM 46.1 grams
> Arched, grooved and blued steel from 1974 Gov 55.8 grams

[Shoota]

I think I posted this out here before, but, anyway.

Mainspring Housings: Weights taken without any pins, springs, etc. Just the Housing.
> Flat grooved silver Nylon MSH from recent Commander 8.2 grams
> Flat grooved and blued steel from 1976 Gold Cup NM 46.1 grams
> Arched, grooved and blued steel from 1974 Gov 55.8 grams


Big difference between nylon and steel....I wonder about aluminum alloy..if there are some?? These, I would think are close to nylon..

[egumpher]

I only carry lightweight pistols so a nylon (not plastic) MSH is a must. In fact I am looking for a black nylon MSH for my LTWT Commander now.

I guess I need to call Colt to buy one.

Rgds
Eric

[Mick_In_Texas]

Hey Mick,
I might consider replacing too, but I may wait to see if there is a failure. I am not carrying my NA right now, so it would be a range breakdown, if any, with no consequence. Of course, if I heard of failures left and right, I would reconsider. Stay safe as well. Phil

The buddy that built the AO is pretty knowledgeable about our beloved platform. He also, like many here, chose the composite MSH for weight considerations: he built it as his "ultimate carry gun". Like you, I don't see a problem outright with it on my 1991: I checked it and it IS "plastic". I don't have a magnet, but I can TELL. By feeling it. Reckon it's okay for now; I don't see all that much on failures here. Since it needs work on the sights, I don't shoot/carry it. It seems to function well, regardless of the MSH or the sights...

Take care. Happy Memorial Day, sir!
Mick.

[Shoota]

The buddy that built the AO is pretty knowledgeable about our beloved platform. He also, like many here, chose the composite MSH for weight considerations: he built it as his "ultimate carry gun". Like you, I don't see a problem outright with it on my 1991: I checked it and it IS "plastic". I don't have a magnet, but I can TELL. By feeling it. Reckon it's okay for now; I don't see all that much on failures here. Since it needs work on the sights, I don't shoot/carry it. It seems to function well, regardless of the MSH or the sights...

Take care. Happy Memorial Day, sir!
Mick.

With the way the ammo is going around here, I may never wear any of my guns out. The range wants $36 bucks for a box of Blazer Brass .45. So, nylon or steel, I don't think that I'll get too much range time. I just ordered a Firestorm 22..I might have to get my jollies that way.

Take care as well, and have a great Memorial Day too!
Phil

[Texasguy]

I personally have complete faith in modern composites and actually think they hold many benefits over steel, therefore I actually think the nylon is better on a carry gun for weight, and especially corrosion resistant properties.

[Shoota]

Great points, Tex.

[rekladan]

I think I posted this out here before, but, anyway.

Mainspring Housings: Weights taken without any pins, springs, etc. Just the Housing.
> Flat grooved silver Nylon MSH from recent Commander 8.2 grams
> Flat grooved and blued steel from 1976 Gold Cup NM 46.1 grams
> Arched, grooved and blued steel from 1974 Gov 55.8 grams
Just did a quick check on Brownells' site. Quoted weight for a flat MSH by VZ grips, made of aluminium is 17 grams:
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=23737&title=1911%20AUTO%20LIGHTWEIGHT%20MAINSPRING%20HOUSING

And here's a 'composite' Colt arched MSH (no picture):
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=4614&title=MAINSPRING%20HOUSING,%20ARCHED,%20COMPOSITE,%20BLUE

They have a flat one too, obviously, but they don't list weights for either. They also have them in grey, for Stainless guns.

[1903a3spring]

I hate the composite MSH and I replace all of mine. However I do keep all the original parts so I can return them to factory configuration. I do have a couple of 1911s that were modified by previous owners, I just don't like to permanently alter my guns.

[OD*]

And here's a 'composite' Colt arched MSH (no picture):
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=4614&title=MAINSPRING%20HOUSING,%20ARCHED,%20COMPOSITE,%20BLUE

They have a flat one too, obviously, but they don't list weights for either. They also have them in grey, for Stainless guns.
You can get them directly from Colt also, I recently bought three of them at $10 a piece.

[dakota1911]

Has anyone mentioned that Aluminum is roughly one third the weight of steel?

[A.B.]

Has anyone mentioned that Aluminum is roughly one third the weight of steel?Rekladan mentioned 17 grams, which is (reassuringly) about one third of the steel MSH.

I don't think anyone has mentioned that Nylon is what chemists call self-lubricating, which means that it is not only the lightest material, insensitive to extreme temperatures and solvents, and corrosion and rust free, but also incapable of scratching the finish.

[Shoota]

Rekladan mentioned 17 grams, which is (reassuringly) about one third of the steel MSH.

I don't think anyone has mentioned that Nylon is what chemists call self-lubricating, which means that it is not only the lightest material, insensitive to extreme temperatures and solvents, and corrosion and rust free, but also incapable of scratching the finish.


More good points...Perhaps Colt has selected the "best" material for making an MSH for a carry weapon. I've become cynical in my old age, though, and will frequently question the motivation of a company's choice of product components based on "best" or "cheapest".

[OD*]

More good points...Perhaps Colt has selected the "best" material for making an MSH for a carry weapon. I've become cynical in my old age, though, and will frequently question the motivation of a company's choice of product components based on "best" or "cheapest".
They did choose a good one, but the MSHs aren't Nylon. ;)

[kenhwind]

They did choose a good one, but the MSHs aren't Nylon.
OK I certainly won't disagree with that, but if they aren't made out of Nylon, is it Delrin, or is it made out of one a host of proprietary plastics /polymers that are available.

In other words it ain't Formica unless its made by Formica, but a lot of companies make laminates genericaly referred to as formica.

[A.B.]

They did choose a good one, but the MSHs aren't Nylon. ;)Aha! (I'd bet) they are a self-lubricating polyamide, though. (hee hee, that stumped spell-check!)

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t316/gordonsorensen/movies/SteveandVeronicaTheGetaway.jpg
"Plastic MSH? Hmmm..."

Personally, I'd like them made out of the same batch of steel as the gun. But since the plastic-y ones are superior in most respects, I have left them in about half of mine. :)

[kenhwind]

Ah yes the "Getaway"

[A.B.]

Ah yes the "Getaway"(Hijack!) You know, that film was pretty good when it was released, it has gotten to be really great, over time. Must be me. ;)

OK, back to Polyamides...

[kenhwind]

The plastic or poly-whateveritis-mer MSHs seem to be made out of Delrin, which is much more suitable for that.
Bearings and bushings are made out of Delrin, especially in the Marine Industry, it is mush more durable than Nylon.
Anyone know for sure what the plastic MSHs are made out of?

[egumpher]

Hello,

I just scored.......I found a Mainspring Housing Flat 1911 Government, Commander Checkered 20 LPI Polymer Black at Midway.........

I consider this the best MSH for my Lightweight Commander...Yippee...there is no reason to add weight by using metal for a perceived, somehow its better, because it's metal its got to be better, MSH.

My choice.

Rgds
Eric

[kenhwind]

They are nice MSHs, that's what Kimber uses.

[egumpher]

They are nice MSHs, that's what Kimber uses.


Thanks....I didn't want to admit that I was contaminating my Colt with Kimber :o

Eric

[kenhwind]

Shhh! This is a Colt forum i'm a gonna get in trouble.
They probably come from the same plastics factory, they are obviously molded and not milled. one could be milled out of Delrin.

[Mick_In_Texas]

... I don't have a problem functionally with the composite MSH on my O1991. I'm pretty sure one of my Colts--the Super 38 Government Model--has an aluminum trigger as well. It's either aluminum or composite, while the MSH is steel. It's been 100% reliable, about 150 rounds from NIB, and while I was a little disappointed with the trigger, it works. The O1991's trigger is also a different physical feel, similar to my Super, than my other 1911s, so it may also be aluminum. I feel that most of us "die hard" 1911 fans prefer STEEL--either regular or stainless--construction on our beauties, and as I'm pretty large, I don't have a problem carrying ANY Government-size 1911... and I don't believe in fixin' stuff that ain't broke. At the same time... I can live with my Super and O1991 having one or two "composite/aluminum" parts. Were I ever to really get inspired, I could replace those that are on these two fairly easily. The gist is, on a mid-range (pricing) 1911, what does the buyer expect in return? My Colts are the most expensive of my guns, including my shotgun and two rifles. On the other hand... my M4A2 (not a Colt, can't afford that one, mine's a Bushmaster) has a composite charging handle, and as I understand it, so do many AR15s/M4s for the civilian market. Yes, wish it was "all steel", like my Chinese SKS... but seems now to be a good gun, like my SKS.

I guess one could argue comparing the RIA or SA (both of which I own, and carry) that are all steel, versus some Colt models (O1991, Super 38) with composite low-stress components... Still, I'm not in a twist to change the MSH on my O1991. I was just surprised to learn it's composite, which it is. Not really a... disappointment, just a surprise on a Colt. I knew the trigger was different on the Super from the get-go. Same situation: a surprise, not really disappointing. Price might be a factor versus composite/aluminum parts, I can see that... but if Kimber uses composite parts... well.

Just random thoughts. Will be out of here, and out of y'all's hair, for a few days. In the U.S., have a good safe and meaningful Memorial Day.

Mick.

[egumpher]

Agree but I usually wear surf-baggies and a tee shirt here in FL. My full size 1911s just won't cover. My LTWT Commander is as big as I can go.

Rgds
Eric

[dakota1911]

I would guess on simple tests that Kimber and S&W are using a plastic for their MSHs out of the Acetals (Celcon/Delrin and other variations) family made famous by their use in plastic zippers, and Colt is using something out of the Nylon family (Nylon 6 and a hundred other variations).

It is sort of a can of worms though. What SS alloy does Colt use vs S&W, vs Ruger vs whoever and do they use the same thing in every gun, or every year? What exact Aluminum alloy does Colt use vs S&W, although S&W does advertise Scandium in the mix. How does the Titanium alloy differ from Taurus to S&W, or what Ruger used to make for Caspian?

Bottom line, a MSH is cheap. Change it out. Try a bunch. Have fun.

[Rick McC.]

Cap:

Wrap your colt with 3/4 layers of waxed paper (waxed side out) and leave it in the holster for a couple of days.

It'll draw smooth then!

Take care,

Rick

[Cap]

Thanks for the tip, Rick

I'll give that a try.

I'd try silicone, but then I'd fear it would be too slick and retention might be an issue

..L.T.A.

[egumpher]

Hello,

Here is a "Plastic Fantastic" MSH for my Lightweight Commander....Just installed it last night...got to love the 20-LPI checkering.....those dang steel springs and pins weight more than the housing..



http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff327/ewgewgewg/IMG_0415.jpg

Rgds
Eric