Looking for input from Colt 1911 owners

[Gustovness]

Hello,

I'm looking to buy first firearm and I'm pretty set in buying a 1911. When I see the price differences between Colt and other manufactures however, I find it hard to believe that I'm paying for more than the brand name!

So being that Colt seems to have the most expensive 1911's out there, I wanted to know why you decided to lay down the extra cash for the Colt made 1911 as opposed to a Springfield or Armscor model. What exactly is the difference and what should I look for in comparing models from different manufactures?

[wichaka]

Welcome to the forum! :wc:


One needs to look past all the bells, whistles, and fancy paint. Look under the hood, so to speak, and you'll quickly see why they are a bit more spendy.

They are still made to the original specs, and have the most solid steel parts of any out there.

[Gustovness]

Welcome to the forum! :wc:


One needs to look past all the bells, whistles, and fancy paint. Look under the hood, so to speak, and you'll quickly see why they are a bit more spendy.

They are still made to the original specs, and have the most solid steel parts of any out there.

Thanks for the warm welcome!

I'm still not really understanding what you mean by what's going on under the hood. I'm a complete noobie in this regard and I don't really understand the quality difference. Could you be a bit more specific?

[lksstbls]

You will find that there are avid (maybe even rabid) supporters of the more popular production pistols--Colt certainly being one of the, along with Kimber, Springfield, and others.

I believe that Colt uses fewer if any "mim" (metal injection molded) parts than the other manufacturers, using bar stock parts for certain smaller but critical parts. Mim is a fabrication technique used to reduce manufacturing costs.
I'm not mimophobic myself, so it isn't of any concern to me, but its an important issue to others and they are entitled to their opinion. Colt is also 100% made in USA which is (as it should be) an important issue. Springfield's lower end pistols are made off-shore. Don't know about Kimber.

The bottom line is that there are several good production brands out there.
You can't go wrong with a Colt, but the same could be said about other brands as well.

[VFRpilotJim]

Colt is also the only company that has been making them continuously since production started in 1912. Not only that, they have just now begun using modern CNC equipment for certain parts; the pistols are still largely built the old fashioned way, by a human standing at a mill. Yes, they are more expensive, but Colt 1911's have a soul. They also hold their value (and even appreciate) better than the clone manufacturers. I like a bargain just like everyone else, but my 1911's have to have the Rampant Colt logo on them!

Jim

[wmw221]

So being that Colt seems to have the most expensive 1911's out there.......

Have you looked at the Wilson, Nighthawk, Les Baer or Ed Brown prices? :D

Seriously though, my attraction to Colt is on multiple fronts, I grew up probably 20 miles from Hartford, the history of Colt, the lifetime warranty and the fewest MIM parts of a production gun. oh yeah, they're also the best looking, no stupid PT1911 or Sig Arms 1911 logo on the slide for example.

[PhantomAce]

- Colt INVENTED the 1911 type, everyone else just copied it.
- Made in USA (not the Phillipines like Armscor and others, or China like Norinco).
- Better finishes (in my opinion anyway).
- And, for some unknown reason, they just "feel" better in my hand.

My advice...
Look at them all, YOU need to be happy with your choice, regardless of what anyone else thinks.

But, if it were me buying my first 1911, I would strongly lean toward a used Colt before a "new" knock-off, and here's why:

A "used" Colt for oh, say, $600 is STILL going to be a used Colt after you fire your first round through it, hence, still worth $600 or so.

Now, a "new" gun (regardless of manufacturer) that you pay $600 for, what's it going to be worth once you fire that first round and it officially becomes a used gun?
Will it STILL be worth what you paid for it new?
I would bet that it will be worth a lot less than you paid for it after your first trip to the range.

You're going to abuse your first gun while you learn. You'll fumble with re-assembly after take down, you may not be able to avoid the dreaded "idiot scratch", you'll drop it at least once in it's life, etc...
Buy a nice used gun to cut your teeth on, then, later, look for fancy and "new".

By the way, I own 3 Colt's (yes, I'm biased), and I didn't buy ANY of them "new". But, they all still go BANG just the same.

[dakota1911]

To post number one.

What do you think you should buy? For a first fire arm a Ruger Singer Six in 22 is nice. Have any ideas? What have you shot? What do you plan on doing with what you buy? Maybe I missed a post.

[LHS905]

I'm a Colt fan and did a lot of research before buying mine. I think you need to make sure you compare apples to apples. Similarly outfitted Colt's are not that much more expensive than the others. You also have to be comfortable with what you're getting; MIM has already been mentioned; Cast vs Forged parts (I'm not going to go into it, but make sure that you are comparing Cast to Cast and Forged to Forged, there is a difference). If you want to talk expensive take a look a similarly outfitted semi-customs already mentioned. There is a lot to be said for the nostalgia as well.

My .02

LHS

[dewalt2]

I've got 2 Kimbers, a Taurus, and a 20 year old Colt Combat Commander. Nothing feels the same as the Colt. Something about them you just learn to love.
My Best,
Walt

[garrettwc]

It's like comparing a KIA Spectra to a Cadillac CTS. They are both 4 door front wheel drive but after that the similarities end.

In short, Colt's makes sure they use top quality parts, not just "lowest bid" parts. Colt guns get more hands on attention than any other manufacturer out there. Naysayers will tell you you're "paying for the name". What they fail to realize is it is "the name" for a reason.

Here are two articles I recommend reading to start with. Some of our members were invited to tour the factory on more than one occasion. They wrote of what they say and the attention that Colt gives their guns and their customers.

Colt's Tour 2007 (http://ezine.m1911.org/ColtTour2.htm)

Colt's Tour 2008 (http://ezine.m1911.org/coltvisit2.htm)

[paul45]

So being that Colt seems to have the most expensive 1911's out there.......

I disagree. Look at Colts production peers pricing. Compare apples to apples. I see Colt as NOT having the most expensive 1911s out there.

[smokey]

Gustovness, The postings above are all good info.Let me put in my .02 cents.First, I currently own 21 1911 patern pistols,from a 1911 [1918 through Gov't Models, NMs, Commanders,& Officers models] All are Colts except my WWII R-R[2],US&S[2],Ithaca[1] and,of course 2@ 1943 Colts. So, I am probably biased.One of my last pair of Commanders[XSE] broke the slide stop at 35[yup 35!] rounds.I was not impressed with the MIM parts and have replaced them on both pistols.[I have always had good service with Ed Brown parts]Both of these Commanders have issues that I'm not fond of,such as the front slide serrations,stupidly designed grip safties,and cheap Chinese knock offs of the Novak sights. STILL, I have solved those problems and still love the pistols."Buy the very best you can afford,take care of it and it will always be there for you"[my grandfather!].Barring any silly mods or damage you will never lose money on a Colt.There are those who say "anything else is a copy". I won't go that far and I've seen some custom pistols that I would die for but, if you carry into harms way,and ever have to use your pistol in serious social intercourse, you won't want to see what it will look like after the evidence room markings are electro-pencilled all over it.So, I carry Colts that can be replaced with no loss to history or collectables.I trust them,I carry them everyday[even though I am now retired],I believe in them and,they have NEVER failed me in a pinch.Need I say More? Regards, Nick

[feathers73]

I have owned Nighthawks, Ed Browns, Baers, Springfields, Kimbers ...... but I'd rather have a Colt. It's the allure, the history, it's simplistic perfection.

[crockett007]

I think the deciding factor is to ask which 1911 will appreciate in value, rather than depreciate from retail....Colt everytime. Not to mention the tradition and the "feel" of a genuine Colt.

[Hawkmoon]

So being that Colt seems to have the most expensive 1911's out there,
As has been pointed out, Colt is not even close to being the most expensive 1911 on the market. You can buy a VERY serviceable Colt for around $700 to $750, while many other 1911s are selling for $2000 to $3000 ... and in a few cases even more.

There's nothing wrong with an Armscor as a first or budget 1911. However, in terms of getting the most from your 1911-buying dollar, the Colt is by FAR the best value. Nothing else comes even close to maching Colt in terms of value-for-dollar.

[Eddy Munster]

I just picked up my first colt a few weeks ago. I am in love with it. Shoots great, smooth breaking trigger, good accuracy, nice fit and finish. My first and will not be my last. I couldn't say that about 1911's of other makes. Others have mentioned the quality of parts. Here is something else. Interchangeable parts. Any part you want or need is MADE for a colt. I was just like you not long ago, wondering the same questions. Then I bought one. Now I am starting to see ''why a colt''. All you have to do is pick what size you want. Buy one you wont be sorry.

[kenhwind]

If a firearm has Colt on it you have a resale value, because a Colt is a Colt.

[daveohno]

One of the reasons Colt cost a little more than some of the other production 1911's is because they are made by US workers that are union employees. These people aren't the cheapest labor on the planet. And as mentioned by others, Colt has a cery high resale value. Old, unmodifed Colt's tend to not go down in value. They may not appreciate much, but they're like a Rolex, they're always worth what you paid for them.

[1903a3spring]

- Colt INVENTED the 1911 type, everyone else just copied it.
- Made in USA (not the Phillipines like Armscor and others, or China like Norinco).
- Better finishes (in my opinion anyway).
- And, for some unknown reason, they just "feel" better in my hand.

By the way, I own 3 Colt's (yes, I'm biased), and I didn't buy ANY of them "new". But, they all still go BANG just the same.

I haven't actually been able to check this for certain but after holding a springfield 1911 I came to the same conclusion about how it fit my hand. I think the flat side of the frame is "longer" than a Colt which means the rounded front strap radius is changed (or something like that). The springfield felt like I was holding a 1x6 piece of wood. Just didn't like the feel. I own a bunch of Colt's as well as a couple of others. The others feel like a Colt.

[paul45]

I haven't actually been able to check this for certain but after holding a springfield 1911 I came to the same conclusion about how it fit my hand. I think the flat side of the frame is "longer" than a Colt which means the rounded front strap radius is changed (or something like that). The springfield felt like I was holding a 1x6 piece of wood. Just didn't like the feel. I own a bunch of Colt's as well as a couple of others. The others feel like a Colt.SA frames are/were of a differnet dimension that Colts.

[OD*]

I haven't actually been able to check this for certain but after holding a springfield 1911 I came to the same conclusion about how it fit my hand. I think the flat side of the frame is "longer" than a Colt which means the rounded front strap radius is changed (or something like that). The springfield felt like I was holding a 1x6 piece of wood. Just didn't like the feel. I own a bunch of Colt's as well as a couple of others. The others feel like a Colt.
Springfield's no longer have the "metric" receivers. The front strap and dustcover are both contoured more closely like those of the Colt's.

[paul45]

Well, that's good. I could tell the difference when I had some SAs......which ran well by the way, but just weren't Colts.

[OD*]

Well, that's good. I could tell the difference when I had some SAs......which ran well by the way, but just weren't Colts.
Yep, that's why I never bought a Springer until they changed that "boxy" feel they had.

[rekladan]

Yep, 2002 seems to be the year they changed the contour of their frontstraps and dustcovers.

From SA's current Custom Shop Worksheet (found as a PDF file on their site):

[under external modifications]
Recontour front strap to 2002 specifications ..................... $70.00
Recontour dust cover to 2002 specifications ..................... $70.00

[tnhawk]

I have pistols made by Colt, Kimber and Springfield Armory. It would be difficult for me to pick my favorite. My 1911s see much more use than the other pistols.

[Pima Pants]

Hello,

I'm looking to buy first firearm

Your first firearm should probably not be a 1911. Please consider a .38 caliber revolver for self defense or a .22 caliber pistol for recreational shooting.

In any event, please make sure you get some adequate safety training.

[TORQ]

IMHO colts for production guns are made with better parts and seem to fuction better.

[mrgrowl791]

These are a very good first firearm....




http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh443/mrgrowl791/ruger005.jpg

[wjkuleck]

These are a very good first firearm....

Agreed, though I would suggest the 22/45 model:

http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/images/Products/263L.jpg

I should add that my second pistol was a Ruger Mk I (Target); my first was...wait for it...a DCM M1911.

Regards,

Walt

[Phil]

....When I see the price differences between Colt and other manufactures however, I find it hard to believe that I'm paying for more than the brand name!You can always find a cheaper (or more expensive) product, but whatever you decide fits your budget, just remember......

"The quality is appreciated long after the price is forgotten."

[admirer]

I recently purchased a new Colt Model of 1911 U.S. Army WW1 and a Springfield Armory 1911-A1 Stainless . I know nothing of the quality of materials , but love them both . The Colt was approx. $1,000.00 and the SA approx. $600.00 . To my
" untrained eye " the Springfiled seems superb as does the Colt . I have fired two 7 round magazines through the Colt ( and cleaned it ) and put it back in the box to keep it new . I have fired about 5 magazines through the SA and had a problem with a jam in the beginning , but polishing the ramp seems to have solved that problem completely . I keep the SA near at all times and if " fondling a 1911 " becomes
" illegal " I'll be in jail for sure .

I may have just gotten lucky , but think I have two nearly perfect 1911's and do love them both . I have to close my post now as I am having " withdrawal " and need to
pick up both 1911's !!
Admirer

[45 1911]

I recently purchased a Colt Gold Cup, I looked at other brands, Kimber, Taurus, Springfield, RIA, but they just weren't a Colt. I didn't want MIM parts and I didn't want a gun made anywhere else than in the USA. I even compared the Springfield TRP (very nice gun) side-by-side to the Gold Cup, I liked the Gold Cup better. I think one thing is the long history of production by Colt, and like everyone else said, you won't lose money with Colt, they're great investments.

[Joni Lynn]

I usually go for a Colt. I like the good resale value, quality, history. They feel right in my hand a usually run as expected.
All Springfield 1911's are made in Brazil, some are imported in the rough and finished/assembled here.
Colt's are a pretty well made 1911 for the money. You get what you pay for.

[Dexter]

Well, there lie a lot of perspectives, almost all of which I would agree with, so assuming that the original question was not rhetorical in nature, there remains one final test. Buy whatever brand you think is "cheaper" than a Colt, and then see if you did not get what you paid for.

[dakota1911]

Over the years I have owned almost everything 1911 and these days I only spend my money on Colts and maybe S&W from their Performance Center.

[Ratzo]

I am new here. I started using 1911's in 1982 when I started shooting PPC. Buy a 1911 and you won't be sorry. Buy one with the "Pony" and not only will you not be sorry, but you will be happy.

[Hunter]

I will continue to add my opinions to the thread (though many will be repeated).
Colt does use quality parts and as far as production pistols they have the best internal parts and they are still hand fitted.
Colt built the original 1911 so the history is a big part of the attraction.
There are a lot of production pistols being built but from my experience Colt has less QC issues than the rest.

[makemine.45]

I like the feel of the Colts a lot, but in my opinion the S&W 1911's have better fit and finish. I have had two Stainless Colt Commanders and both had issues with the slide stops after about the first 100 rounds. The specific problems were that they scuffed up my frames due to a sharp line on the back of the stops, and both barely held the slide locked back, such that if you bumped the gun by inserting or ejecting a magazine the slide would slam back into battery. I replaced the slide stops with Ed Brown parts and that cleared up those two issues. I also experienced a multitude of 3-point jams with both guns due to the barrels riding the links (13% malfunctions with one gun and 19% with the other, out of the box). I had a local smith fix them up for less than shipping them to Colt would have cost me, then traded one off on a second S&W that I will be picking up next weekend. I still have the other Colt and carry it frequently, but in my opinion those slide stops were not good quality parts. YMMV, and this is just relating the facts of my personal experience with two Colts, and not intended as a general bashing of the brand.
As far as cost, the Colts are actually very reasonably priced in my opinion, being about $100 less than a S&W, and even less compared to a comparable Kimber in my neck of the woods.

[Phil]

Colt does use quality parts and as far as production pistols they have the best internal parts and they are still hand fitted.
Colt built the original 1911 so the history is a big part of the attraction.That about sums up my reasons for liking Colts :D

[rdhrt]

I too have other names but as has been said already a Colt is a Colt.Period.

[Mick_In_Texas]

In the first case, Colt Patent Firearms Manufacturing Company did NOT invent the 1905/1910/1911: John Moses Browning did. Having been basically abused by Winchester for years, when he developed his "automatic" pistol design--the 1900 and the 1905--he came to Colt Pt FA Mfg Co, and the US military was also at the same time looking for something besides the .38 Spec revolver. Colt Pt Fa Mfg Co had a German engineer with a "blow forward" pistol design, but he RECOGNIZED the genius of JMB, and he himself recommended to the board of directors to go with JMB's pistol over his. That takes a big man to do that... and the rest is history.

That said: I have one RIA, two Springfields, and six Colt 1911s, including an original and authentic M1911 military USGI from 1918. Frankly, the only ones I've had probs with on a couple are Colts, the modern ones. That said, YES: they DO feel different. There is something about a Colt. I love my Springers, and my RIA; and one SA and the Rock are my primary carry arms, with the Colt's Super 38 Govt Mod being tertiary. My S70 Repro SEEMS to be working out; my M1911 isn't a "using" gun but is in excellent condition, my WWI Repro is fantastic, but also a limited-use pistol, my O1991 needs sights work, and my Mk IV Govt Model from 1977 has some issues. But I like mine basic, and I like mine functional. In the sense that Colt realized what John Moses Browning designed, and his genius, and was fair in compensation to him, unlike Winchester, YES: they ARE the original manufacturers of the 1911 platform, whether in .38 Auto or .45 Automatic Colt Pistol. If you love the 1911, I think you gotta have at least one good Colt! They're mid-range on pricing, and I had to sacrifice to get my six... but they're keepers, issues or none. I want to get my S70 verified for function, because as much as I love my Springers (and they are EXCELLENT guns) and my RIA (and it is an EXCELLENT gun), I'd LOVE to have a Colt to carry!

But agree with y'all: if I take say my Mk IV Govt and my Springfield Mil-Spec, and hold them both, the Colt FEELS different. If I hold my WWI Repro and my "REAL" WWI M1911 USGI, there is NO difference in feel... Subjective, somewhat, objective, somewhat. I hope Colt Manufacturing Company makes a real comeback and establishes a "new" history, to compliment their heritage from the early 1900s... and before! (The Single Action Army--SAA--revolver, in .45 Long Colt, which I have my eye on...)

Y'all take care.
Mick.

[rekladan]

I think this story may be simplified a bit too much the way you put it Sir (I seem to recall that JMB went to FN, AFTER Colt told him they weren't interested, the company coming back on board after noting the success of the pistol in Europe and when both FN and Browning wanted to get in the US market), but the gist of it is there...

I personally think that JMBs most ingenious design ever was his Auto 5 shotgun, but I know I'm in a minority on that one...

[auto45]

JMB did "pretty good" on the Superposed design too! :)

[kenhwind]

I personally think that JMBs most ingenious design ever was his Auto 5 shotgun, but I know I'm in a minority on that one...
I agree, it also was a recoil system used in the Remington Model 8 autoloading rifle, as well as the BMG.
JMB was more of an inventer than a designer.
Actually Colt had American and British sales rights, while FN had the European market. Colt did not manufacture Browning's first autoloading pistol design, FN did.To say that he designed the 1911 may be false because it was developed by Browning, Colt and Army Ordnance. but yes he did invent it. there was a collaboration between Carl Ehberts, a Colt employee and JMB. This topic is too involved for this thread.
Telling JMB no royalties on the A-5 was one of Winchester's biggest mistakes. Winchester secured the patents and no one could copy them.

[OD*]

Browning also sold the rights to manufacture the "Auto-5" to Remington (Model 11) and Savage (Model 720).

Browning's first commercially successful semi-automatic pistol, the Model 1900;

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/browning1900l.jpg

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg117-e.htm

[hatchettg]

In addition to many of the abovementioned strengths of the Colt product, I selected Colt for a carry gun because they offer the most reliable firing pin safety system on the market. Granted, many Colt fans hate the Series 80, but I feel more comfortable carrying a 1911 with a firing pin safety. My Series 80 had an excellent trigger pull right out of the box.

[Butch9630]

I'm new to this board but I am not a rookie -- I've owned many 1911's -- Kimber , Springfield, RIA, Llama , Para's, and Colt -- I have six 1911's right now and have had many more in the last 65 years -- by far my favorites are the Colt's -- they just feel better and I have had less trouble with them than the others -- The only ones I feel right carrying are the Colt's -- the others work fine but when my life is on the line it will be the Colt I reach for.

[dakota1911]

In case nobody else said it, welcome Butch9630. Also great to have another member who likes Colts.

[Butch9630]

Thanks for the greeting -- Glad to be here -- Took long enough for me to find this place