PDA

View Full Version : can you machine a rail onto any 1911?



Korr
30th August 2005, 17:50
I'm interested in purchasing a para-ordnance s1640 limited. Can this gun have a light rail machined onto it?

CTDinMT
30th August 2005, 19:56
I think the only option for a light rail is drilling and tapping the dust cover and attaching your rail via screws. I've seen this before somewhere, but I can't for the life of me remember where. There isn't enough material on the dust cover to machine out a rail. -Steve

Korr
30th August 2005, 20:43
I think the only option for a light rail is drilling and tapping the dust cover and attaching your rail via screws. I've seen this before somewhere, but I can't for the life of me remember where. There isn't enough material on the dust cover to machine out a rail. -Steve
Yeah, I kinda wondered if that would would be the case. I really like the Springfield Operator with the rail machined into the full length dustcover, but I really like the high capacity (and caliber) of the 1640. Does Para-Ordnance make anything like the Operator but in double stack? Or can something custom be had along those lines from another company?

Hawkmoon
30th August 2005, 21:44
Yeah, I kinda wondered if that would would be the case. I really like the Springfield Operator with the rail machined into the full length dustcover, but I really like the high capacity (and caliber) of the 1640. Does Para-Ordnance make anything like the Operator but in double stack? Or can something custom be had along those lines from another company?
http://www.caspianarms.com/

Under "Receivers," click on High Capacity, then look for Recon Rail Hi-Cap

Korr
30th August 2005, 22:02
http://www.caspianarms.com/

Under "Receivers," click on High Capacity, then look for Recon Rail Hi-Cap
Awesome! But then what? I've never built or customized (or owned, for that matter) a 1911 before. :o

ohsmily
16th October 2005, 01:48
you can buy the "recon rail" separately (for 50 bucks) and install it on your Para-Ordnance. You only need to drill and tap 3 holes for it to work.

Korr
17th October 2005, 14:21
I'll look into that. I still like the Para best because of ammo compatibility (my carry gun is a .40).

ohsmily
17th October 2005, 14:34
No, you don't understand, you can install a rail (not a new frame, but an actual rail), on your Para Ord pistol.
http://caspianarms.com/html/accessories/rail.html check that link.
You can keep your para ord just the way it is and just add this rail. Dawson precision makes rails too, but I like this Caspian add-on better.

Korr
17th October 2005, 14:58
No, I understood what you meant. I just meant that the recon rail is a good option for me (as opposed to buying something other than a para that has a machined-in rail) because a para is still my first choice because it's one of the few 1911's available in .40.

ohsmily
17th October 2005, 15:08
gotcha, sorry to jump the "gun" a little there. ;)

ANyway, I am going to put one of those rails on my Springfield loaded model. The reason I got the loaded instead of a higher end gun with a rail was b/c most of the higher end guns with rails (at least the ones available to us in CALIFORNIA) have some type of front strap checkering. But i wanted a smooth front strap b/c i am going to have my gun sent in to Chuck Rogers for the "golf ball" texture/treatment on the front strap. Anyway, the Caspian rail looks pretty nice and I think unless we are using our guns for SWAT work or other stuff, we only need to screw it to the frame and don't need to weld or silver solder the rail to the gun. (we don't generally use our guns that hard in the civilian arena, usually).

Gammon
22nd October 2005, 23:13
Save yourself a lot of money and try a piece of skateboard tape first. I find it to be as good or better than any form of checkering, etc.

ohsmily
22nd October 2005, 23:19
That is a very good tip. I have skateboard tape on my Para Ord limited, but I think I want my Springfield to be flashy yet functional so those very unique "golf ball" textures will serve that purpose. From what I have heard they grip well and they definitely look interesting. However, for 280.00 bucks just for the front strap, that is going to be a hard sell, even for someone like me who doesn't mind spending some money here and there for things that don't make that much difference. Anyway. good post.

Gammon
22nd October 2005, 23:27
My second choice would be 20 lpi checkering. I hope you get some hands on experience with this new texture before buying.

Unclenick
25th October 2005, 23:45
Gammon has a good point about trying out textures. I just returned from a week of shooting up in Maine. I ran 3000 rounds of .45 between Thursday and mid-afternoon Saturday. I have a blister on my trigger finger where the edge of the overtravel screw hole in the new trigger rubbed it. I'll have to deburr and polish that out.

I went to zero checkering and texture after my first time at Gunsite. The rubber checker pattern on the flat mainspring housing I'd installed in my school gun had the heel of my palm nicely reddened by midweek. My left thumb was in the same condition from cocking the hammer for dry firing. I can't imagine how little skin front strap texturing would have left at the end of five days?

My gun is now totally de-horned. No checkering. Even the Commander hammer spur grooves have been blasted and rounded off and buffed out smooth. The Hogue rubber grips I use don't have checkering, either.

Just one shooter's opinion, but if you're going to shoot a volume, reconsider textures. When you fire a large number of rounds, textures look awesome and hurt awesome. Take Gammon's suggestion and borrow a gun that has the kind of pattern your looking at and run 500 rounds of ball through it some afternoon. See if it works for you or tenderizes you?

I find the absence of textures no handicap. If you develop your grip to be a built-up body support position, with one had bearing on the other for position rigidity, then the gun falls into place. If you aren't going to have your hands checkered (if that lack of texture isn't a problem), the gun's lack of texture shouldn't be a problem either. (I suppose I shouldn't have assumed the negative on hand checkering when I consider some of the piercings and oddball surgery I've seen on TV. Just a thought.)

Nick

Shanko
26th October 2005, 00:03
I have 20LPI and 30 LPI on my Kimber and haven't had any problems with it. I prefer to have some kind of texturing i actually think it does give a better grip. Skateboard tape does work wonders but I have found that when it's new it can be worse than having the 20 lpi or 30 lpi on the gun, i put it on one of my pistols and it irritated the heck out of my hand, it's fine now i guess it just needed to be broken in...
I'm planning on getting a new Nighthawk Custom Talon with the same kind of checkering that i have on my kimber.

ohsmily
26th October 2005, 00:32
I know what you mean about the front strap eating your hand. I was at Front Sight in Nevada for 4 days and I was pretty raw with 20LPI checkering on another .45 of mine. However, on a defense gun in a real world situation (god forbid I am ever in the situation) I won't be shooting 800 rounds. I will only be firing a few shots (hopefully). And I will trade a raw hand during training for a definite, firm, no slip grip during a sweaty tense situation that may last only a few seconds.

As for the tip about trying out the texture first...I am sort of at a loss there b/c the "golf ball" checkering i am thinking about getting isn't common, in fact, I have never handled that exact texture. However, I have handled a scalloped type front strap and it didn't have enough grit or bite into my hand, too smooth (might as well be a smooth front strap). Here is a link to what I am referring to when I say "golf ball". It looks like it has alot of bite to it. pic 1 (http://rogersprecision.com.hosting.domaindirect.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/gbfront.jpg) pic 2 (http://rogersprecision.com.hosting.domaindirect.com/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual&linkpath=http://www.rogersprecision.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/new4.jpg&target=tlx_new) pic 3 (http://rogersprecision.com/)

Gammon
26th October 2005, 07:07
Checkered surfaces can be a little rough on the hands at first, but they are well worth the pain. I won't own a pistol without some form anti slip surface on the front strap. My favorite for many years was 20 lpi checkering, but skate board tape works about as well for a tiny fraction of the cost. Experiences at schools like Gunsite must be taken with a grain of salt. Very often the students are exposed to much more shooting than they had ever attempted in a short time before in their lives. This is just as much a cause of wear and tear to the skin as the surface used on the pistol. If you shoot a lot on a regular basis, your hands will toughen up. When I was an avid IPSC competitor, I developed callouses on my fingers from the 20 lpi checkering on the front strap. 1000 rounds a week will do that.

Hawkmoon
26th October 2005, 08:26
Back to the original question, I just spotted an ad for a Para Ordnance model with an integral light rail. It's a version of the P14.45 (or maybe it was the 14.45LDA, I don't recall) named the "Night Tac." It might be worth a call to Para to ask if the same frame is or will be available in .40 caliber.

Unclenick
27th October 2005, 00:58
Ohsmily,

That is an interesting pattern. Being a web of ridges at the surface rather than the diamond points of conventional checkering, it may mitigate the irritation by distributing contact better. In my view that would be a good thing. I have wondered before if a smooth surface interrupted by zig-zag grooves after the fashion of a tire tread pattern might not provide perspiration bypass while avoiding skin abrasion?

I don't shoot volumes all the time, but I read once that so-called muscle memory takes about 6000 repetitions of a motion to develop. So I suppose something you can stand to shoot a lot is the same something you want for self-defense. It is what your kinesthetic sense will be drilled with. A self-defense situation isn't where you want to find that out that a change has adversely affected your proficiency.

I recall someone (perhaps Ayoob) once suggesting that a good exercise is to lay your gun on the bench and run back and forth behind the firing line until you are panting hard and sweating. Then you pick the gun up and see what you can hit with it? It is a way of simulating the outward physiological effects of an adverse social encounter. It might also help determine how much texture is really doing for you? Youíll need both textured and smooth guns to compare, but if you can borrow what you lack, youíll learn what you like before you commit to an investment. I donít know where to borrow one with that scalloped texturing, though? If you get it done, borrow a smooth gun and tell us how they compare with sweaty palms? Hmmm. Maybe a little mineral oil on the hands would make for a good test?

Nick