Drop in grip safety

[Texasguy]

I have been thoroughly enjoying my Colt XSE and am happy to report that I have yet to experience any FTF's or other issues, and I'm especially happy to report no slide rub.
My attention is now turning to tweaking the gun to make it just right for me, but I would love to hear some of the knowledgeable opinions here. First of all, is the available Wilson drop-in beavertail for the Colts really a straight forward upgrade?
Wilson drop-in BTGS (http://www.wilsoncombat.com/a_beavertail_safeties_di.asp)
Second, I am right handed and I don't really think I have any use for a ambi-safety that came on the XSE. Is there other benefits to this safety I am not aware of? How would I go about replacing it with a right-side-only safety? Does Colt sell them individually?
Thank you in advance for any advice, opinions.
http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/3/l_22e802829e7b44c7adc4601040a6a477.jpg

[John]

Wilson offers two grip safeties that are guaranteed to be drop-ins for the Colt pistols, one for a Government model (the standard Government models) and one for the Commander ones. Your XSE, while of course being a Government model, as far as its barrel length is concerned, it has its frame tongues rounded to fit the duck-tail grip safety it now has (or at least, that's what I believe it has). I do not think the Wilson safeties will fit it well, but as that's just what I believe from the way your gun looks like.

Call Wilson and ask them, they should be able to tell you.

[ncjeepin]

Ahh someone else going down the path that I did just a few weeks ago!

Well let me share my experience with you about this same issue. First, I am not a gunsmith and up until this point never did any GS work. But I know about the 1911 design and how it works. Thanks to Kunhausen's books. I also called wilson before i started and they assured me it dropped in and would work with my xse. Well.....

The part came and I cautiously started this project (i had never even stripped a 1911 down to the parts in the frame before, just field stripping). Well the part doesnt "drop-in" . It actually is wider than the cavity of the frame. So i had to fit it. I used a bench grinder (gunsmiths are shaking their heads) to get it down the correct size and then a dremel (another head shake) to polish the sides very very smooth. This was done with a lot of trial and error. I would remove a little metal and then put it in the frame and try it and then remove metal and try it. I did this over and over until I got it right. Needless to say it took me a while.

The good news to this is...... by having it wider to begin with, allows you to get a real good fit with the frame and grip safety so there is only the slightest gap and therefore it wont pinch your hands like many will say about drop in or ill-fitting grip safeties. The result turned out much much better than I ever expected and looks no different than if Browning himself would have put it in. Plus it was a very good learning experience and I enjoyed it more because i did it myself.

Now there are two more issues you will have to deal with that I didnt, thankfully. First and most importantly is that the trigger block on the safety itself has to be in the ballpark of the right size. Which means you will have to either shorten the block by removing metal, peen the block to make it long enough, or (and most likely) you will be lucky and it will already be the appropriate length. Second, is that your gun is blued and mine is stainless. So the removing metal and polishing will take the blue finish off of the part and you will have to have a finish put back on it once you have properly fit the GS. Mine XSE is stainless so i didnt have to worry about that as I just got the GS that was also stainless. You could probably just use a cold blueing kit that is a few dollars from walmart or a gun shop, or use a spray on finish from brownells or Duracoat to put a finish back on it. It would not be expensive at all to do that just one more thing to do and more time your pistol will be down.

Man thats a lot of typing, and am I finally through.

[ncjeepin]

ohh by the way Wilson does say they grip safeties are for the XSE models as well, so they do work....eventually. Not sure about the comment on the frame tangs though mine fit just perfect.

Man that really is a great looking pistol. I love the government XSE in blue.

[kenhwind]

There is some mis-information here.
The Commander Wilson Drop in Grip safety does fit the XSE frames:
http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/vv64/kenhwind/HPIM0274-1.jpg
Some minor fitting maybe, but no grinding. If you buy the grip safety that requires "Frame alteration required" that ain't the drop-in part. Kings gun works also made a nice one.
www.brownells

[kenhwind]

Ahh someone else going down the path that I did just a few weeks ago!

Well let me share my experience with you about this same issue. First, I am not a gunsmith and up until this point never did any GS work. But I know about the 1911 design and how it works. Thanks to Kunhausen's books. I also called wilson before i started and they assured me it dropped in and would work with my xse. Well.....

The part came and I cautiously started this project (i had never even stripped a 1911 down to the parts in the frame before, just field stripping). Well the part doesnt "drop-in" . It actually is wider than the cavity of the frame. So i had to fit it. I used a bench grinder (gunsmiths are shaking their heads) to get it down the correct size and then a dremel (another head shake) to polish the sides very very smooth. This was done with a lot of trial and error. I would remove a little metal and then put it in the frame and try it and then remove metal and try it. I did this over and over until I got it right. Needless to say it took me a while.

The good news to this is...... by having it wider to begin with, allows you to get a real good fit with the frame and grip safety so there is only the slightest gap and therefore it wont pinch your hands like many will say about drop in or ill-fitting grip safeties. The result turned out much much better than I ever expected and looks no different than if Browning himself would have put it in. Plus it was a very good learning experience and I enjoyed it more because i did it myself.

Now there are two more issues you will have to deal with that I didnt, thankfully. First and most importantly is that the trigger block on the safety itself has to be in the ballpark of the right size. Which means you will have to either shorten the block by removing metal, peen the block to make it long enough, or (and most likely) you will be lucky and it will already be the appropriate length. Second, is that your gun is blued and mine is stainless. So the removing metal and polishing will take the blue finish off of the part and you will have to have a finish put back on it once you have properly fit the GS. Mine XSE is stainless so i didnt have to worry about that as I just got the GS that was also stainless. You could probably just use a cold blueing kit that is a few dollars from walmart or a gun shop, or use a spray on finish from brownells or Duracoat to put a finish back on it. It would not be expensive at all to do that just one more thing to do and more time your pistol will be down.

Man thats a lot of typing, and am I finally through.
This statement is very misleading;
I've installed two Kings Commander Grip Safeties on XSE Commanders and two on the Defenders. these four pistols have the same grip safety as the XSE GM.

[wichaka]

That's a great fitting drop-in.

Wow, that looks like a custom fit.

[ncjeepin]

I am not sure what is misleading about that. I said they DO work for the XSE, I called wilson and talked to them personally and they said they ARE for the XSE BUT minor fitting may be required. Look at the website it says it there MINOR fitting MAY be required. Besides all I said was my experience with installing the DROP IN grip safety on my XSE. If yours dropped right in, well good for you.

[Texasguy]

Thanks for the great replies so far, the info is much appreciated. I am fairly sure I'm going to order one to see if it fits without cutting on my particular pistol, hopefully I get results similar to kenhwind (that does look custom fitted). Even if the drop in fit does not have a perfect fitted look to it I'm okay, because the factory duckbill GS doesn't exactly blend in super smooth anyways.
If anybody has more pics of Colts with the drop in Wilson safety bring 'em on!

[paul45]

If anybody has more pics of Colts with the drop in Wilson safety bring 'em on!Okay!

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k57/paul10mm/100_0066.jpg

[DuckRyder]

http://home.att.net/~duckryder/O4540XSETruIvoryW.jpg

[paul45]

Nice one, DuckRyder.....

[kenhwind]

What a sweet Commander.

There are two kinds of grip safeties; Government Model and Commander.
There are two makes of drop-in beavertail; Kings Gun Works and Wilson Combat.
Most or all of the others require the frame tangs to be radiused to fit the new grip safety.
I've installed the Kings Commander grip safety on a SS Delta Elite and had to radius the frame tangs like a Commander.
Now I have also installed the Wilson Combat drop-in into the GM. this may require some dremel work, OK.
The XSE frames have the Commander radius frame tangs and the Commander drop-in grip safety or any grip safety designed for the Colt Commander should fit.
If the wrong grip safety is purchased, which is easy to do, than some serious grinding may be in order. Obviously not a drop-in installation.
The Wilson drop-in parts are very forgiving in that they usually fit with minor fitting. The arm that blocks the trigger needs to be fit on all of them sometimes.

As for the misleading post comment. I did not say you were wrong, but judging by your post I have to assume that you bought a Wilson Combat grip safety, not a Wilson Combat drop-in grip safety. They are not the same!

And than you for the compliment on my Defender, they are a nice compact.
Same problem the Colt XSE grip safety sweeps the wrong direction im opinion

[ncjeepin]

Alright, let me make this clear and simple. Because apparently my earlier version in English wasnt understood.

I bought the Wilson DROP IN grip safety ( got the package to prove it). The grip safety itself was actually a few tenths of an inch wider that the cavity in the frame where the safety goes.

So my fitting of the safety into the frame was to use the named method to shave the sides of the grip safety to fit into the frame of my XSE. I didnt have to use a bench grinder I could have used an arkansas stone, dremel, mill file, or any other method to remove metal. I chose the bench grinder and dremel.

Not at anytime did I grind on the frame of the pistol. The grip safety works perfectly with the frame tangs. (not sure how it was construed that i grinded on the frame tangs.

Now thats not misleading, thats the truth!

[wichaka]

http://w3.gorge.net/scshields/lw2.jpg

[kenhwind]

I realize that you did not grind on the receiver, but you must have a very small bench grinder, because the grip safety DOES NOT HAVE A COMPLETE RADIUS, the lower edge is FLAT.
The OP needs all of the information he can get.
Now post a picture of your gun so we can see it!
Thank you.
A few "Tenths of an inch" .062= 1/16; .125= 1/8; 7/64=.109. Two tenths of an inch is .200 and 13/64= .203

[A.B.]

Wilson drop-in, the minor fitting (filing) on the arm gives an excellent fit.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t316/gordonsorensen/flat/esmeraldatwo.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t316/gordonsorensen/flat/commanderwwilsongs.jpg

[ncjeepin]

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn183/ncjeepin1998/misc035.jpg


No, its the largest bench grinder man has ever made. Its just that I am that d*mn good, sorry you are not.

[kenhwind]

If your are referring to the palm swell on the outside than you are definitely misleading, because it is impossible to use a bench grinder to do what you described in your original post, which was to fit the grip safety into the frame.
"Nuff said here"
After 30 years of working on these things, and being a qualified "Infantry Weapons Repairman" I stand behind my statements.

[ncjeepin]

Man, well after 30 years you need some medication because I never said anything about a palm swell. And apparently you dont have a clue what I have been describing, because you keep talking about other parts of the thing that i didnt even say anything about.
Finally, just because you cant do something doesnt make it impossible. Send it to me, I will do it for you, if you are scared.

[kenhwind]

What you described cannot be done correctly with a bench grinder,sorry sir, but you are wrong.
And your trying to convince us that the Wilson Combat grip safety was more than 1/8 th of an inch too wide to fit inside the frame!

[A.B.]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to walk into this.

[kenhwind]

And I'm walking out, because ncjeepin, did use a "Dremel to smooth thing outs" did used trial and error, and I guess I should not post before the coffee is done.
And being a big boy I will have to take a bow here and admit that I mis-read his first post.
My fault, I assumed the he "used a bench grinder to fit the grip safety" which cannot be done, but after looking at a grip safety and a bench grinder I re-read his first post. Some of what he posted could be considered misleading, but not the entire post
I have encountered grip safeties that were too wide but not by a "few tenths"
To ncjeepin; a humble apology.
And yes you did do a nice job.
Like I've posted before if I'm wrong I'll admit it, If I feel or know different I will try to verify it. This time I did both. LOL

[ncjeepin]

Well you sir are a true gentleman. Few people are big enough to admit mistakes. For my part I shouldnt have gotten so carried away.

My apologies also to Texasguy for hijacking his thread. Its a good question, one of which I wish I would have asked before embarking on my journey. Even still, you will be fine if you get the drop in from wilson. Every one here agrees it will work on your xse. Maybe, you wont have to do any fitting and will work right the first time. I was just giving you my experience with it, that doesnt mean you will have the same. But you do have to make sure the trigger block is the right length or you either wont be able to move the trigger at all even with the safety depressed or it will be too short and the safety wont work at all.

[kenhwind]

And thank you, it happens, and we do get carried away sometimes. It was late and after dinner and a few refreshments. When I first started posting I got questioned, corrected, and felt slitghted sometimes, but hey, if someone knew it all we wouldn't have so much fun here.

The arm for the trigger is usually too long, look at the one that you remove and compare. you can usually see were the trigger rubs on the grip safety bar.

Yes, let's get this thread back on track and help out the OP
Who also gets MHA.

[Texasguy]

Okay guys, thanks again for the replies.
I might have to vindicate ncjeepin here, I purchased the Wilson drop-in safety and I did have to do some filing on both sides of it to get it to fit into the XSE frame. It was just barely too wide and about 30 minutes carefully honing with a diamond whet stone narrowed it enough to fit. The safety being blue wasn't that big of a deal because I left a satin finish on each side just like the factory hammer so now the grip safety and hammer match.
BUT, I have a issue with it. In the pictures posted there isn't much gap between the tangs and the beaver tail, but mine has quite some gap. My first thought is that the XSE has Commander style tangs and even though mine is government size I should have bought the commander safety, could anybody confirm this??? what is the dimensional difference between the government and commander Wilson drop-in safeties?

[kenhwind]

The only problem I had with ncjeepin first post was the exaggeration about the "Bench grinder" and fitting the trigger bar, but we're past that.

OK; Now it appears that you purchased the GM Wilson Combat drop-in grip safety, the frame tangs on the GM are longer. The XSE Colts have frame tangs similar to the Commanders, but more of a true radius. I will post a picture of my GM Super here in a moment.
There is no such thing as true drop-in parts except maybe the USGI- Mil-Spec 1911A1, and even then we were trained how to fit the parts, especially the safety lock and the grip safety trigger bar.
http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/vv64/kenhwind/Colt38Super.jpg
And yes some minor fitting required.
This is the Colt MKIV Series 70 Government Model .38 Super with the Wilson Combat drop-in grip safety. On this gun I had to Dremel the frame tangs for the safety to pivot correctly, but because the gun is old and used the finish didn't bother me. I also raised the front strap, and made a tighter radius under the trigger bar.