Old commander

[Jayjay]

Hi guys,

I was able to get my paws on an old Colt commander with I think an aluminum frame. The serial number is CLW 600606 I think. Can any of you guys tell me something about this pistol? Why are there gaps between the frame and the slide on the dust cover? The springs show when I look at it with light on the other side.

Thanks

Jay jay :D

[stans]

There is always some clearance in this area and it is probably a little more critical to have clearance with the aluminum frames. It could also be a sign that the frame is worn out or just excessive clearance is present. How tightly does the slide fit the frame? A little bit of movement is normal, if it is really loose, there could be a problem. How do the frame rails look? Is the anodizing still present, a little worn off, or all of it gone?

[Jayjay]

Dear Stans,

There is still a little anodizing left on the rails and the play between the slide and frame is not that pronounced. I think the fit is the same as other factory colts but with a little rattle. I am just not comfortable with seeing light between the slide and frame as my other colt series 80 does not have this.

Sorry about the serial number, I gave the wrong one. The correct serial number is CLW 006606. Where can we research on this pistol? I jsut want to know everything that I can about this .

Thanks

[Jayjay]

Do you guys recommend a guide rod for this pistol? A friend of mine is sold on this Sprinco recoil reducer Guide rod. Is this any good?

Thanks

[1911slabsides]

Personally I'd skip the guide rod, Only reason why is, I just don't like them. As far as the gap goes, I had a pre 70's government model that had a pretty good sized gap too, the gun was pretty tight and it worked just fine,

[Jayjay]

Dear Mr. Slabsides,

Thanks for the info. :D

[stans]

Sounds like the frame is ok, just chalk it up to typical 1970's Colt fitting. The Sprinco unit is pretty good and might reduce frame battering. Using a standard or full length guide rod and shock buffer is not a good idea on pistols shorter than Government model length. The buffer takes up too much space and shortens the slide travel distance just enough to induce ejection irregularities. Yeah, ask me how I know!

[Jayjay]

Dear Stans/ Guys

Thanks Stans.

I have a full size 1911 that I use for competition. The LW commander I plan to carry a lot and probably fire a maximum of 50 rnds a month so, I think battering it is not a problem. Will the sprinco help in controlling recoil? Are there any other recoil reducing devices that you can recommend? Any thoughts on the Bobtail configuration mainspring housing? What about aluminum or titanium mainspring housings from ZM weopons or Caspian. Do you recommend them. I want to make my commander as light as possible.

Thanks

[1911slabsides]

I don't know if recoil reduction stuff is really necessary, the aluminum frame does kick a little harder than standard but it's nothing unmanagable, I'd pass on getting anything like that. Now as I go further into my grumpy old man routine, I don't care for the bobtail either, if you want a handle like that I say get a S&W revolver, I really see the bobtail as a gizmo, IMHO there have been gizmo's made for the 1911 since about 1911. :eek:

[John]

If that matters, both my 1911s show light, at that point, so do not worry about it too much, it's normal.

As for FLGRs, as I have said in other posts, that was the first item I requested when my pistols were build. However, lately I have switched back to the original configuration, too complicated to disassemble with the FLGRs, although they have the benefit of being able to easily remove the whole top end without having the spring loose. I guess the FLGR question is more a matter of taste than anything else.

Recoil reducers are also another ambiguous topic. Nothing I've tried (and that included Harrts, Sprincos etc) made a significant difference for me. I think that a properly adjusted 1911 does not need a recoil reducer, but of course yours is an aluminum frame one, I have zero experience with these, so I'd better shut up.

Gents, Jayjay has also requested if there is a resource somewhere, from which he can get info about his pistol. Any ideas, apart from writing to Colt and paying the premium, for a small letter saying when the pistol was made and to where it was shipped?

Rgds

[stans]

In a carry gun, I would not add anything that could break. Shock buffers are a no-no for 1911's shorter than Govenment model length. Adding a buffer shortens the distance the slide can travel, in the shorter guns that difference is enough to induce ejection and possibly feeding problems. Not the sort of thing you want in a carry gun. Recoil reducing guide rods like the Sprinco are fine on the range, but again, more parts that can break when you need the gun the most.

Aluminum receivers do not last as long as steel in the 1911. For a long time 15,000 rounds was a general rule of thumb for the life of a Commander. Alloys have changed and Kimber now claims that they have no noticeable wear in their aluminum receivers after 20,000 rounds.

Most people don't put that many rounds through a Commander, they don't like the recoil. Your Commander was used, let's assume 5000 rounds. If it lasts only another 5000 rounds, at 50 rounds a month, that is 100 months, or 8 years and 4 months!

Best bet is to just watch the frame for wear or cracks and don't worry about it.

The two most common locations for cracks are at the junction where the dust cover meets the frame rails and around the slide stop pin hole.

[1911slabsides]

As Stans, just stated the dust cover and the arch over the slide stop hole are the standard areas where commanders crack, amazingly that is also where most other 1911's crack first too, even if they do crack it isn't the end of the game for them they can still keep going for quite some time after the crack develops,

[Jayjay]

Dear guys,

Thanks very much for your time in answering all my queries. I really appreciate it.

Have you heard any problems with the aluminum Mainspring housing? I just want to make my commander as light as possible?


Thanks again.

[Jayjay]

Dear guys,

I forgot to ask.

1.) I want to refinish my commander by parkerizing it. My gunsmith told me that the aluminum cannot be parkerized. Any suggestions on what I can refinish my reciever with. I dislike my guns having a two tone config. If there is none I will just have the slide black chromed and the reciever re anodized.

2.) My other 1911 has a Bomar rear sight which I find snags, this is the one I use for competition. The Para P16 I have has Novak rear sights which I find does not snag at all. There are stuff that I have read that says that carry guns should be able to get back into action if it jams using one hand (assuming one arm has been hit). They say that this can be done by snagging the rear sight on your pants pocket. I do not know if this can be done using Novak. What carry sights do you guys recommend?My commander has the old old short factory sights on it now.

What you think?

[John]

Unless you expect to be shot a lot (which I doubt), I wouldn't worry about your ability to cock the slide using the sights, if you are hit at the arm. For a normal pistol user (not LE), this is something you will very seldom need (if ever). For me, the qualities of Novak's Low Mount are more important than this shortcoming.

I would go with the Novaks (both my pistols have them).

Rgds

[stans]

And neither aluminum nor stainless steel will take parkerizing. Aluminum frames are anodized not only to give them a color, but the anodizing gives them a hardened shell as well. Suggest anodizing the frame black.

[1911slabsides]

You also might want to take a look at Brownells Aluminum black spray on finish, I haven't used it personally but I have used their other spray on bake on finishes and they come out really nice, plus you can do them yourself and don't have to wait on a gunsmith to get your gun back.

[Jayjay]

Muchos Gracias guys. I will keep everything you guys say in mind. When I get to fix the commander I will send you a before and after picture. Thanks a lot for all your help.

No feed back yet on my query on the aluminum or titanium mainspring housing to keep the gun as light as possible?

Thanks again.

[John]

If you want less weight, use a plastic MSH. I've never heard of one made of aluminum or titanium.

Rgds

[Jayjay]

Thanks Commandante.

ZM weapons makes one in aluminum and Caspian makes it in titanium. :D

[John]

Da**, I have to remember to spend more time in my sponsors sites.

Caspian seems to be offering a whole banch of interesting things.

One question though, isn't titanium heavier than steel?

Rgds

[Jayjay]

Dear John,

I read somewhere that titanium is as light as aluminum but stronger that steel.

Thanks

[1911slabsides]

I swapped out a titanium firing pin on a Springfield, I can't give you the weight numbers but that titanium pin was very light almost hard to belive how light it was. I changed it out because I heard that the titanium was brittle, I didn't have a problem with mine, I just wanted to try to avoid a problem that might come up.

[John]

That makes sense, I also have a firing pin, a hammer strut and what else, (memory is not what it used to be) in my .45. I must have mixed up the materials. Yeap, it's tungsten that they use for the heavy guide rods. Sorry folks, now I am convinced that I shouldn't post too early in the morning.

:-( John is unhappy, he screwed up again!!!

[Wes Janson]

The SR-71 was constructed largely out of titanium, and they had a b**** of a time building it because the stuff was so hard that it played havoc with the tools they used. Here are some stats:

Melting point of 3034 degrees F
40% density of steel (45% weight), 100% strength of steel
60% heavier than aluminium, 200% strength of aluminium

Titanium Dioxide is used in paints as an infrared reflector. Titanium alloys are used in aerospace applications, and certain consumer products.

Titanium is very resistant to sea water, and is physiologically inert, making it a prime choice for marine and medical applications.

[John]

Wes,

Thanks for the info.

The thing is I should have known that, I am a chemist by degree, so this should be old news to me. Unfortunatelly, I am largely dependent on caffeine for my brain to function.

That, and the fact that my wife is away for almost three weeks now, should have something to do with mixing titanium with tungsten.

LoL

[Wes Janson]

Here in the States, we've taken caffeine dependency to whole new levels of sadness! Check out the following: http://www.thinkgeek.com/caffeine/

Bawls is a rather nice drink I must admit. Personally, though, I draw the line at caffeine that enters my body through any means other than my mouth. That would include caffeinated soap, caffeinated skin cream/gel, and most definitely caffeinated suppositories. Let us hope to God that they never try the last of those.

[John]

(Can't say anything, my mouth is wide open!)

SUPPOSITORIES????!?!!!!!!!!

[Doran]

Gents, Jayjay has also requested if there is a resource somewhere, from which he can get info about his pistol. Any ideas, apart from writing to Colt and paying the premium, for a small letter saying when the pistol was made and to where it was shipped?



I have a small booklet I carry at shows that says CLW serial numbers for the year 1970 production began at CLW005101 and ended at CLW009759.

There is some overlap of serial numbers at the beginning and end of years due to out of sequence production but since this one is about 1500 pistols away from the beginning of the year I would say 1970 is a pretty safe bet.

Shipping information would take a factory letter. I think they are now over $100 but I don't know that for sure.

========

I should have noticed I wasn't at the end of the thread before I posted this.

Your Commander came with a Coltalloy aluminum MSH if it hasn't been changed. The plastic Colt MSHs work and weigh a little less. The load of the main spring is captured between the hammer strut and the mainspring housing pin when the pistol is cocked so there's not much strain on the MSH itself.

I sent my CLW to Wilson Combat several years ago for trigger and reliability work. I had a Wilson Nite Eye put on the front and a standard Combat Pyramid on the rear. The rear is snagfree so the "pants" routine won't work. There are special sights made that stick out past the slide on both sides for one-handed cocking. The tall "hardballer" type sights from somebody like King's will work if you want to do something like that. It's still possible to cock the pistol by placing the bottom of the slide at the recoil spring plug against something like table top and shove the pistol forward to cock it. This won't work if you have a guide rod.

I also had it ArmorTuff'd green on the frame and everything else, slide and small parts, black. No finish wear yet aside from the rails and I don't have to worry about fingerprints, etc. I was very, very satisfied with the work and the finish.

I tried a shockbuff in this pistol once. It took up enough room that the slide would pinch it and require both thumbs to release the slide so I took it out.

Titanium is bad about galling. I work in the aircraft industry and we avoid having two titanium parts moving against each other. This same thing will happen if the train of parts in the MSH/hammer strut/hammer/firing pin are all made of titanium. Maybe not a problem in a carry pistol but something to think about.

Lots of newer pistols use titanium firing pins because the part is so light it will pass the "drop test" required by some states. A steel firing pin has enough inertia to compress the firing pin spring a little and maybe set off the primer and fail the test.

I'm done.

[Wes Janson]

I was kidding John, those don't exist ;)

Yet.

That I know of.

But I wouldn't be suprised if someone, someday, for some reason, actually created some :/

[Jayjay]

Dear Guys/ Doran,

Thanks very much for the info on my commander. You are right the MSH is made of aluminum. I think I will just stick with the novak sights and carry lead pipe for back up.

God bless guys. :D

[michael t]

If it ain't broke don't mess. A lot of good guns end up problems cause somebody wants to tinker.Just shoot it and enjoy.

[Bruce Foreman]

Do you guys recommend a guide rod for this pistol? A friend of mine is sold on this Sprinco recoil reducer Guide rod. Is this any good?

Thanks

If you attend a Defensive Handgun class at any of the top schools in the country, they are going to tell you to leave your 1911 mostly stock.

Added gizmo's are the leading cause of malfunctions experienced by students at Thunder Ranch according to Clint Smith.

I shot my TR class with a Glock 17 (1000 rounds without a cleaning that week...Too darn tired to mess with it!) but as soon as I got home I took the shock buffs out of both my full size Norinco and my Colt Lightweight Commander. The Commander had a full length guide rod and I ordered a Colt standard guide rod and recoil spring plug for it and yanked the FLGR out.

Nothing changed, accuracy is still there but the gun is easier to field strip and that's the way it's going to stay.

Recoil is minimal, I actually shoot better with a Commander than I do with the full size 1911.

So enjoy it! As is....

Bruce Foreman
Defensive Handgun Instructor

[MaximRecoil]

Dear guys,

Thanks very much for your time in answering all my queries. I really appreciate it.

Have you heard any problems with the aluminum Mainspring housing? I just want to make my commander as light as possible?


Thanks again.Get a stock nylon mainspring housing from Colt like has come on countless Series 80 pistols over the years. That is as light as you are going to get. If you want an aluminum one instead; go for it (it will be heavier than the nylon ones). The Mainspring housing is not complex; any will do.

About the gap where you can see your recoil spring when held to the light; that is very common and nothing to worry about. All that is is the dustcover. Technically you could saw it completely off and it would not affect the function although it would look bad and leave some of the mechanism open to the elements.

I agree with the other suggestions to leave your gun pretty much stock or you may end up "fixing" something that wasn't broken.

[Jayjay]

Dear Guys,

Thanks so much for your help. I have a friend who told me that adding a guide rod would smoothen the action. My old commander feels like sandpaper when I rack the slide. Is this true or should i have a gunsmith refit the gun?

Thanks

[John]

A Full-Length Guide Rod (or FLGR for short)? Smooth the action? I sincerely doubt it. Some oil in the proper areas will do more than the FLGR.

Rgds

[Jayjay]

Thanks a lot John.