Sighting-in Rock Tactical 45

[boar man]

Well, I've finally put 250 rounds through my Tact. aiming at the same spot on the target benched.

I can conclude that my pistol is shooting Low-4PM consistently.

Question please: How can this be adjusted to shoot dead on?

Thanks,
Boar man

[TX1911MAN]

I'm interested in knowing this also, I'm at 6 o'clock consistently from the bench. Other than filing the front site, is there another way.

[9mmIsWeaksauce]

Mine has been shooting low since I got it, almost 12 inches at 25 yards, so I've been researching what can be done.

Fixing windage was simple in theory. Removed the set crew from the rear sight, then went to pounding it out. Very hard as the sight was glued in with a thick coat of red locktite. A nylon or brass punch wouldn't cut it, so I ended up putting a couple craters in the sight when I had to use a steel punch to drift it out.

Some fixes for elevation:
File the front sight down if it's shooting low. Mine would have to be filed almost .1 inches to fix.

Get a new front sight. Current front sight is .180 inches, Novak and Champion have various height front sights in novak cut. Calculate what you need and replace it with the closest fit. Might need a little work as the dovetail in the tactical is deeper than standard novak.

Get an adjustable rear sight. This is what I'll probably do. Something like this
Adjustable sight (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=185714)
would make windage and elevation adjustment easy, or I might get one of these (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=228658) when they're back in stock, see how it runs, then match a front tritium sight to it. Again, a little work may be needed.

Thread with blueprints of the RIA Tactical cuts and other advice. (http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=64196)

[boar man]

Thanks for the information "9mmIsWeaksauce". This will give me a start to check what "may need a little work" entails.
I guess the trick is getting the dove tail of the new sights to fit in the rear sight and front sight slots. I do like your idea of the $89 Champion rear sight and Tritium front sight.
Keep us informed of your progress on what you had to do to make them fit. :appld:

[MikeyB]

Which sight pattern to use with the tactical? Point of aim or the 6 o'clock hold? A buddy of mine just received his and I want to pass the info on to him.

MikeyB

[John]

For pistols shooting low and having a Novak rear sight cut, there is an easier method. If I remember correctly, Novak is selling a sight for the short models like the Colt Officers. This sight fits the same dovetail as the standard Novak, but it is taller. That should bring your point of impact closer to center.

[madwolf]

I'm interested in knowing this also, I'm at 6 o'clock consistently from the bench. Other than filing the front site, is there another way.

I had the same situation and resolved the problem without having to file the front sight using white nail polish.

I painted a white a square on the front sight about .75mm to 1mm down from the top of front sight. Cut up a piece of blue masking tape to help get straight line borders and taped on the front sight before painting. I also painted two small squares high on the rear sight. Squares were easier and looked much neater than trying to paint freehand dots :)

If you want white dots, determine lowered height you need on front sight(you can do as above to determine dot placements or use small dots made from tape to mark placement) than use a dremel tool with a small round balltip to drill small dots on front and rear sights, fill holes with white nail polish, wipe excess paint outside of drilled holes. Use a bluing pen to darken up any parkerizing that was removed on sights around the dots. Now you'll have perfect white dot sights without changing or filing down your stock sights. :appld:

(windage can also be adjusted without changing rear sight by drilling rear dots slightly left or slightly right depending on which way your drift is)

I hope this helps ;)

Madwolf

[boar man]

Yes, 6PM & hold.

[log man]

Heating a new sight with a small propane torch and then allowing it to cool will make it a lot easier as the Loctite will break down and no harm to anything else. Oops, not for tritium as the vials will break. It's an old trick, but when I replace a sight that's tight I put the sight in the freezer for a 1/2 hour and they go right in.

LOG

[TX1911MAN]

"Champion Adjustable Defensive Rear Sight 1911 Novak Cut Steel Blue
Product #: 185714"

I like the idea of an adjustable rear sight that is still somewhat combat built. Has anyone installed one of these and was it a pain or can an every day non-gunsmith type of person do it? Or should I buy one and take it to a smith and have installed?

Madwolf - Great recommendation, but everytime I try something like this it doesn't seem to work out like I expect..."A man's gotta know his limitations".

Thanks!

[egumpher]

Hello,

I believe that the part number referenced, 185714, is a Midway part number.

I installed Champion part number, Model 860-626 Defensive Adjustable Sight™, Tritium Version (Elevation Only), on my LTWT Commander. It was simple. Just drift out the old sight and drift in the new sight.

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff327/ewgewgewg/IMG_5469-2.jpg

Rgds
Eric

[boar man]

Thanks for the photo Eric.
To a newbie, that helps a whole lot! :)

[boar man]

Eric, How does one adjust for windage? Just tap the sight to the direction where compensation is needed?

Thank you

[log man]

Eric, How does one adjust for windage? Just tap the sight to the direction where compensation is needed?

Thank you
With the style Eric shows, you drift for windage. This style is adj. in both with a screw driver.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/productdetail.aspx?p=23108&st=&s=49261

LOG

[boar man]

Hi Eric, Logman
I forgot to ask, the photo you showed is that a "Rock" ?
My understanding is that even though our Rocks have
a Novak slot, the after market sights won't fit without some smithing work.

I really like the idea of floating out and floating in.

Thanks
Boar man

[boar man]

"drifting out and drifting in" :D

[9mmIsWeaksauce]

Thanks for the information "9mmIsWeaksauce". This will give me a start to check what "may need a little work" entails.
I guess the trick is getting the dove tail of the new sights to fit in the rear sight and front sight slots. I do like your idea of the $89 Champion rear sight and Tritium front sight.
Keep us informed of your progress on what you had to do to make them fit. :appld:

I finally got my sights ordered and installed. I bought a Novak brand tritium .160" height non-serrated Novak-cut front sight (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=612211) , a Champion/Kensight low-moung elevation adjustable tritium sight (http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/productdetail.aspx?p=23108&st=&s=49467) , and a #2 65° Sight Base File (http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/productdetail.aspx?p=27310&st=080-648-265%20%20%20&s=2878).

Pictures of the new and old sights.

http://webpages.charter.net/fredaskp/Pics/1911/SightTop.JPG

http://webpages.charter.net/fredaskp/Pics/1911/SightSide.JPG

As you may see the current front dovetail is too deep and not wide enough, while the rear dovetail is not deep enough, so a few hours work filing on the slide was needed.

Here's the rear sight. Slight overhang at the rear but nothing serious.

http://webpages.charter.net/fredaskp/Pics/1911/RearSight.JPG

The front sight, with a gap in the bottom but still tight. Will put some loctite underneath to fill in the gap.

http://webpages.charter.net/fredaskp/Pics/1911/FrontSight.JPG

http://webpages.charter.net/fredaskp/Pics/1911/SightGap.JPG

Comparison of the sight heights, before and after. .05" difference before any sight adjustment, and should be close to what I need to zero the gun.

http://webpages.charter.net/fredaskp/Pics/1911/Sights.JPG

End Result

http://webpages.charter.net/fredaskp/Pics/1911/Rear.JPG

And here's a target I murdered after installation and a few clicks. As you can see I'm a crack shot ;) . (only seven holes, so I must have put one through the bullseye hole twice. Yeah, that was it.)

http://webpages.charter.net/fredaskp/Pics/1911/Target.JPG

[boar man]

Hi 9mmisWeaksauce,

Good job! Saved some bucks there.
Thanks for the excellent photos. I have not done my sights yet. The sights I want is the Lo-profile tactical sights that require mill work on the slide. Something like the Colt Gold Cup sights where the mount is flush with the slide, Looks real cool from the side view and does the job.

Have not got around to that yet because I got hung-up on buying reloading stuff. It turned out to be more bucks spent than I thought it would be.

I'll post a photo here when I get it done.

That target photo you posted looks pretty good to me! The holes that don't up on the target don't count don't you know :D

Thanks,
Boar man

[Mike45]

9mmisWeaksauce thanks for such an informative post.

When looking at the RIA drawing and all the spec's on front sights out there I thought that there would be a gap under the front sight.

I theorize that there are a couple of ways to fill the gap.

1. Use a shim and cut to fit - like a feeler gauge (in the old days when a guy use to set his points on a distributor we had feeler gauges of different thickness) not sure you can even get these gauges these days.

2. Under cut, with a file, the bottom part of the front sight thus lowering the sight dovetail into the slides dovetail cut. This is the method that I thought that I would try.

Not sure if any this would work but just some brainstorming I was doing one day. (really just day dreaming :) )

Thanks again
Mike45

[tonka]

When installing new sights in an existing dovetail, I prefer to file on the sight, not the dovetail. The reason is that if the new sight is oversized and you cut it to fit the dovetail, you end up with a standard dovetail that can be utilized if you decide to change the sights at a future date. If you open up the dovetail cut and decide to change sights again, you may find that they will be a sloppy fit in the dovetail- maybe to the point that you'll need to have the cut welded up and re-milled. Don't ask me how I know, I don't wanna talk about it.
Be gentle; a file will wreck a part just as thoroughly as a Dremel, just not as quickly.

[boar man]

Hi Tonka,

If the male portion of the sight base is larger than the slide dovetail slot, that would be perfect!
Thanks for bringing that to my attention. That will be the first thing I check. ;)

Boar man

[log man]

I've got all the plumbing terminology down and understood, but never heard the sight dovetail referred to as male. :)

LOG

[9mmIsWeaksauce]

When installing new sights in an existing dovetail, I prefer to file on the sight, not the dovetail. The reason is that if the new sight is oversized and you cut it to fit the dovetail, you end up with a standard dovetail that can be utilized if you decide to change the sights at a future date. If you open up the dovetail cut and decide to change sights again, you may find that they will be a sloppy fit in the dovetail- maybe to the point that you'll need to have the cut welded up and re-milled. Don't ask me how I know, I don't wanna talk about it.
Be gentle; a file will wreck a part just as thoroughly as a Dremel, just not as quickly.

Yeah, on reflection I probably should have filed the sights. Still, I'm happy with the results and I like the sights so I don't think they'll be replaced anytime soon.