Hammer Fails to Stay at Full Cock

[Ross6860]

I am installing a Cylinder and Slide "Drop in Kit" (hammer, disconnecter, sear, mainspring, sear/trigger/grip safety spring).

The trigger is very nice if you just thumb back the hammer and dry fire it. Almost too light.

The hammer will not stay at full cock if you cycle the slide. Even if you cycle it very slowly.

If you manually thumb back the hammer to full cock and then pull back and drop the slide (I know, this is bad for the pistol), the hammer follows to half-cock.

Looking for any suggestions. Possibly try adjusting the sear spring tension? I bought a "drop in" kit for a reason. I don't own all the stones, jigs, etc. for performing a trigger job.

This is a hobby gun, so I'm not in any rush. I do want to get it right.

[niemi24s]

Does the new trigger have take up tabs on the front of the bow?

Is the cross-bar (stirrup) at the aft end of the bow of the new trigger any farther aftward than that of the original trigger?

Compare the side profiles of the 3 leafs (leaves?) of the new sear spring with the original sear spring: See any difference?

[Ross6860]

No new trigger. Plenty of take up with the original trigger.

Biggest difference in the sear spring is in the original there is a lot more arch in the leg that contacts the grip safety. The other two legs look nearly identical to the original.

I have an older Colt spring, so I may try that with a little more tension on the middle leg and see if it helps.

[Rope]

Put the old sear spring back in and try it.

From what I've read here I'll toss out a guess. The disconnector leg of the spring is too long in the new set and therefore not exerting pressure where it should.

[John]

Reassemble the pistol minus the grip safety and thumb safety. In that way, you'll be able to see inside the frame and see what's wrong.

[log man]

The hammer isn't being cocked far enough by the slide to be caught by the sear.

LOG

[ETAC]

Log man, good call!! I had the same problem with a Kimber when I installed an after-market hammer and sear. My problem was the hammer, not the sear. I used a different hammer from the same manufacturer and all was well. Off-spec parts can cause some minor headaches!

[John]

If that happens during hand-cycling, it is understandable. During firing though the hammer is slammed back by the slide, so it is rather difficult not to get cocked by it, unless the part is way out of spec.

You have actually two issues here. First the hammer is not getting cocked and second the hammer follows. Most probably, your sear is not engaging the hammer hooks enough to hold the hammer cocked.

[log man]

The hammer following when you hard drop the slide is most likely a lack of sufficient tension on the center leaf. However the inability to cock by hand with the slide is a no go even if it slams back and cocks when under live fire as it means you have to thumb cock when charging and that isn't acceptable. A possible shorter or shortened sear if still in spec. could rectify this problem.

LOG

[niemi24s]

Couldn't a sear that's too long also cause this problem - even if the hammer is OK?

[ETAC]

Yep! I have a shorter sear that I keep just in case of an off spec hammer or frame hole. Short hammer hooks coupled with the wrong primary sear angle can also cause the hammer to follow or out of spec frame holes. When I buy ignition parts, it is with the understanding that it has to be hand fit. If it drops right in and works, I consider myself lucky. Another problem I have encountered are burrs inside the frame where the sear rotates. This sometimes delays sear movement enough or limits movement to not sufficiently engage the hammer. Also, I insure that the sear rotates freely on the sear pin. And for another problem I have encountered (drum roll please), if the bottom of the disconnector (the area that clears the sear when the slide moves back and depresses the disconnector to clear the bottom of the sear legs) is to tall in the area, it will not allow the sear to reset. Gosh, I hope I explained that right!

[log man]

The hammer following when you hard drop the slide is most likely a lack of sufficient tension on the center leaf. However the inability to cock by hand with the slide is a no go even if it slams back and cocks when under live fire as it means you have to thumb cock when charging and that isn't acceptable. A possible shorter or shortened sear if still in spec. could rectify this problem.

LOG
Couldn't a sear that's too long also cause this problem - even if the hammer is OK?
Absolutely and the C&S could well be. The sear can be measured with the pin installed it should be between .450"-.460" this is the acceptable dimensions measured from the pin to the nose with the primary angle parallel to the caliper jaw. Mid dimensions of .454"-.456" seem to work best. So measure the sear and ........

LOG

[ETAC]

After you solve the sear-hammer debacle, don't forget to check the function of the thumb safety.

[Ross6860]

Thanks for the ideas. So much for "drop in" kits. I guess I have been lucky up to this point.

I'll call the problem pistol 1911A for this discussion.

I installed the "kit" in another 1911 (call it 1911B) and everything appears to function properly - at least so far. Also, the parts from 1911B when installed in 1911A appear to function properly.

I guess I have to decide if that's the route I want to go. I suspect the holes in the frame of 1911A are slightly off. All the parts are high quality (Cylinder & Slide, Nowlin, Colt, Ed Brown, Wilson Combate, etc.), so it really doesn't matter as long as they pass all the function checks and operate reliably. The hammers and sears stay as a matched sets.

I will have to re-fit the thumb safety in 1911B, but at least there's too much material, so I'm not out any parts in the end.

I'll try and post some pictures and the results when finished.

Again, I want to thank everyone for their input. I guess I will eventually need to invest in some more tools [ wow, what a shame ;-) ] if I'm going to continue down this road.

[Ross6860]

Went with what fits. So far, so good.

The old Colt now has the Cylinder and Slide kit in it. The Taurus is sporting a Nowlin hammer and Colt sear and disconnector.

Not quite what I planned, but I can live with it.

[/IMG]http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x11/ogeenubu/1911s.jpg[/IMG]

Just need to live-fire test.

Thanks, again.

[Ross6860]

Sorry, wrong link.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x11/ogeenubu/1911s.jpg