Hammer locked in cocked postion

[PopsPT1911]

New to 1911's and have a problem I can't resolve. Tried search tool and did find an instance where someone had a hammer lock in the cocked position. Turned out that the hammer lock somehow moved and locked the hammer after 50 rds. My gun locked up today at the range after two 8 rd mags and one shot from the 3rd mag. Stripped it and couldn't find anything out of place; cleaned it up a little and put it back together. Still won't fire. Trigger barely moves and hammer moves maybe 1/8". Any ideas out there from the more experienced members?

[nitetrane98]

Check the trigger over travel adjustment if it has one. Otherwise, wait for the gurus, they'll figure it out.

[John]

Hammer lock? What pistol is it?

[doctruptwn]

We need some more info, Nitetrain suggest the overtrvel screw and that is the first place I'd look at.

We need to know what Gun you have?

What modifications have you done?

Is it new or used? (if used some one else may have modified)

[log man]

Field strip to clean, detail strip to fix.

LOG

[niemi24s]

Trigger barely moves and hammer moves maybe 1/8".Do you mean when you pull the trigger as much as you can the hammer will fall only 1/8" down from fully cocked?

Or do you mean the trigger causes no hammer movement and the hammer can only be pulled 1/8" back from fully cocked?

[tomgun]

could it be a taurus POJ??

[1911Tuner]

Wait for it...

Here it comes...

:)

zebrazebrazebrazebrazebra Remove the slide and check to see if the disconnect has reset zebrazebrazebrazebrazebra

[nitetrane98]

You might be on the right track, tomgun. I see that those Taurus PT1911's have a little key affair that locks the hammer. I suppose if that's the case, one should get the key and unlock it. Taurus says it's part of the gun and can't be lost, hmmmmm, they don't know me.

[John]

Wait for it...

Here it comes...

:)

zebrazebrazebrazebrazebra Remove the slide and check to see if the disconnect has reset zebrazebrazebrazebrazebra
:lm:

[PopsPT1911]

Sorry but I originally posted in the Taurus section and the post was moved to the gunsmithing board. It is a PT1911 POJ (in the opinion of some), new, 650+ rds through it. Locked up at the range yesterday. Pull the trigger as hard as you can and the hammer will only move about 1/8". Checked the overtravel screw and the ridiculous hammer lock and neither seemed to be the problem. Checked with the local gunsmith today and he said send it to Taurus since it is new. Thought I might do that but now am thinking it would be a good time to tear it apart and learn what makes a 1911 tick. If I can work up the nerve to do that guess it is time for a new hammer and probably a trigger as well. Thanks for all the replies. I will post again when there is progress.

[wichaka]

could it be a taurus POJ??

What is POJ?

[PopsPT1911]

POK? Kinda thought it was a left handed compliment; piece of junk, nobody likes PT1911 unless you own one and it runs good.

Tore it apart tonight. Couldn't stand the thought of shipping it off for who knows how long and not trying to see for myself what was wrong. Unfortunately I still don't know what was wrong or if it will happen again. After an easy disassembly and a long slow reassembly (vids I watched never mentioned the trigger bar lever or the firing pin block lever; but I figured them out anyway) seems to be working as good as before the lock-up. Going to try it tomorrow weather permitting. Now that I know it isn't that hard to take one apart and put it back together again may order a new hammer at the least. Thanks for your replies and offered solutions.

[PopsPT1911]

Took the pistol to the range and the trigger and hammer work but it won't fire. Hammer is not striking the firing pin hard enough to even dent the primer. Came home and took it apart again; can't find the problem, everything looks OK (I'm a beginner; what do I know). Guess it's time to find another gunsmith; hopefully a little more open minded than the first. Still don't want to ship it to Miami.

[log man]

Took the pistol to the range and the trigger and hammer work but it won't fire. Hammer is not striking the firing pin hard enough to even dent the primer. Came home and took it apart again; can't find the problem, everything looks OK (I'm a beginner; what do I know). Guess it's time to find another gunsmith; hopefully a little more open minded than the first. Still don't want to ship it to Miami.
Sounds like the trigger bar isn't in correctly and isn't activating the plunger lever. Easy to do until you understand their correct relationship. Here's a picture of those parts.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr85/logpics/45samp6.jpg

LOG

[Ralph Grant]

I bet its the Series 80 Parts reassembly. John Browning didn't put those parts in there. Dang California Legal Weenies!

Do what Log Man is telling you. Strip her down and try again. Get yourself a pencil with an eraser, drop it in the barrel with the eraser toward the firing pin and pull the trigger. It should have enough power to shoot the pencil a foot or two into the air. Keep stripping it and reassembling until you can do it in less than a minute soldier! They don't have videos in the desert!

If that doesn't work, as Tuner mentions, make sure the disconnector is extending fully out of the frame with the slide off. If its sticking down it won't fire. I helped a guy at the range with one once that had developed a burr on the disconnector and it was really rough. We cleaned it up with a small piece of emery paper I had in my range bag and he didn't have another problem with it.

Whats with these gunsmiths today? Send it to Taurus? Any gunsmith worth his salt would have torn her down right there and helped you out. Scared of a 1911! These guys anymore are a bunch of UPS clerks. Ship it to the factory. :(

[log man]

I bet its the Series 80 Parts reassembly. John Browning didn't put those parts in there. Dang California Legal Weenies! (
California had nothing to do with Colt developing the Series80 firing pin block which first came out in the early 80's, nor the Swartz firing pin block that Colt had in the 30's and variations now used by S&W and Kimber. Colt entered into the production of the Series 80 on their own for product liability concerns to themselves. Which had been further exasperated by the Army's desire for a safer side arm for the military and choose the Beretta which had a firing pin block.

LOG

[kenhwind]

I've read that the 1911 being dropped on the muzzle and the gun discharging a chambered round was more of an issue than perceived. The Government turned down the Swartz safety for logistic reasons. Also a firing pin safety was mandated when they chose to adapt the nine.
I dropped an unloaded one on a terazo floor and sheared the safety lock off.
Ken

[wichaka]

I think it's more urban legend than anything else. One gun does it, and now everyone of them is a danger......

[log man]

I think it's more urban legend than anything else. One gun does it, and now everyone of them is a danger......

This from an article about the firing pin block.

Back when the JSSAP (Joint Services Small Arms Program) study was about to result in the replacement of the 1911A1 .45 auto with the double action Beretta M9, Jack Robbins--involved in the project at Eglin Air Base--told me that one reason the military wanted new pistols was that the services were experiencing an average of 17 handgun "accidentals" a year, some due to dropped guns. None of the 1911Als in inventory had firing pin locks. Jack and his team insisted that Beretta adopt that feature (turning the Model 92 into the Model 92S) before it would be approved.

LOG

[wichaka]

This from an article about the firing pin block.
Jack Robbins--involved in the project at Eglin Air Base--told me that one reason the military wanted new pistols was that the services were experiencing an average of 17 handgun "accidentals" a year, some due to dropped guns.

LOG


Would need more info on that study, before I would jump to a change.

[log man]

Would need more info on that study, before I would jump to a change.
Google's your friend, lots to read on the subject. Had several incidents reported on the forum also.

LOG

[wichaka]

Placing a primed case in a 1911, the only ones I've been able to get to go off had to be dropped from a low of 8 feet, and most had to be 10+, and they all had weak firing pin springs.

The ones I have seen go off, have been when either people grab for them before they hit the ground, or something gets tangled in the trigger.

[log man]

Placing a primed case in a 1911, the only ones I've been able to get to go off had to be dropped from a low of 8 feet, and most had to be 10+, and they all had weak firing pin springs.

The ones I have seen go off, have been when either people grab for them before they hit the ground, or something gets tangled in the trigger.
Yep, that'll do it, don't do that. ;)

LOG

[Ralph Grant]

Thanks for the history lesson Log Man. I still blame California! Its just so easy!

No offence! :)

[PopsPT1911]

Log Man hit the nail on the head. Trigger bar lever and firing pin block lever weren't mating up just right. Disassembled one last time and made sure of their position. Tried "shooting a pen" from the gun and it was sent across the room. Took it out today and fired 9 rds successfully; 1 rd at a time for three times to ensure the slide locked back and then loaded 2 rds in the mag and shot that three times to be sure the hammer didn't follow the slide. Seems to be good to go. Thanks for all the suggestions, tips, and well wishes. Hope not to be back soon with a new problem, but, if I do I'm sure you guys will jump in and bail me out again.

[garrettwc]

Placing a primed case in a 1911, the only ones I've been able to get to go off had to be dropped from a low of 8 feet, and most had to be 10+, and they all had weak firing pin springs.

The ones I have seen go off, have been when either people grab for them before they hit the ground, or something gets tangled in the trigger.
I'd bet either one or a combination of these two.

We are talking about guns that had been in the channel for as much as 40 years by the time the 9MM NATO trials began. What condition were they in, and was the maintenance what it should have been.

Also, the primary weapon choice for our military is the rifle. Very few are issued a sidearm, and even fewer of those really get their pistol handling skills up to par. It's simply not a priority for the mission outside of a special forces context. It's not outside the realm of possibility that they could have mishandled the firearm.

This is not different than the requirement by civilian administrators that police side arms had heavy double action pulls, mag safeties, etc. It was a perceived need.