View Full Version : Heinz 1911?
23rd August 2005, 11:38
I'm new here and bought a 1911 the other day. It said Remington Rand and I've always wanted a 1911 so I got it.
Problem is that the more I read the more I'm lost. The markings are as follows:
Frame right side No 949275, o looks silver
Left side F with a light J (FJA) P near the mag release
Near the disconnecter G
Main spring housing checkered
Grips wood double diamond (looks like just made probably
No other markings on frame
19 serrations on sides at rear
G at the bottom behind the firing plate, at the top possible 0,8 or 9
Top of slide has a LA near the rear sight
Rear sight is adjustable along with the barrel bushing are
marked "Micro" in script not block letters
Front sight .125 thick .56 long 1.7 high serrated toward rear
Ejecton port has a "relief cut" .37 wide and long tapering to rear
Barrel has HZ on right and HP on left and bluing on outside
Other than the above the slide has no markings
The serial says Remington Rand (or others) 1943, FIJI is Atwood inspector, HP proof tested. The Gas are govt but I haven't seen any of the positions I have along with the relief cut and slick slide.
The finish looks real good and shoots really well. Question is it a heinz 57 piece together or better?
Thanks for any help.
23rd August 2005, 15:30
Sounds like the slide somebody added adj sights to and flared the port. What's the finish on your pistol? Blue or park?
Could the barrel be HS instead of HZ?
Rem Rand logo on the slide?
Mainspring housing should be serrated with 7 ribs and a lanyard loop.
Check http://www.coolgunsite.com/ for the correctness of the rest of your small parts.
Sounds like a great shooter. Enjoy.
23rd August 2005, 15:33
The FJA inspector stamp is sometimes found partially struck.
The G stamp is found in those locations you mentioned. Remington-Rand pistols are 1911A1's, not 1911's. The correct grips should be Keyes, probably without reinforcing rings at that serial number. Is there a UNITED STATES PROPERTY stamp and M 1911 A1 U.S. ARMY stamp on the frame? The slide should have the type II logo, does it say REMINGTON RAND INC. over SYRACUSE,N.Y. U.S.A. ?If not the slide has been replaced. The lowered ejection port ruined the value of the slide if it was original. There should be a P stamp on top of the slide forward the rear sight, struck with the same die as the P stamp on the frame. No, idea what the LA stamp is but is not USGI. The front and rear sights have been replaced, along with the barrel bushing, grips, barrel. Sounds like a pistol built from parts or a "HEINZ 57" as you say.
23rd August 2005, 16:51
It is HS on the barrel. The slide is blank, nothing. There isn't a P on top of the slide just something that looks like a L. No property stamp only the serial on the receiver. The port was not lowered, it doesn't go through the slide. Its a triangle shaped indentation that goes from the lower part of the port up and the rear point is in line with the serrations.
I was kinda hoping I had gotten a deal but kinda knew otherwise. I can see why there's a 1911 fever. I only put 50 rounds through it but shot rell nice.
Thanks for the replies they just confirmed what I thought.
23rd August 2005, 18:45
Sounds like a gun that was modified for use in Bullseye matches. The right side of the receiver should be marked:
UNITED STATES PROPERTY M1911 A1 U.S. ARMY
If the U.S. property marking is missing, then odds are it was ground off and the gun refinished. This totally eliminates collector value and makes such a gun a shooter.
27th August 2005, 21:25
Many "collectors" marvel at the fact that a large number of "military" pistols are made up from mixed manufacturers and eras. It happened this way:
At TEWOS (Tokyo Engineering Works Ordnance Shops) Mt. Rainier Ordnance Depot and other ordnance facilities, the pistols were stripped to the bare frame and slide and all similar parts were thrown into bins for that part only. Then they were carefully inspected and gauged. Those that were serviceable were saved, the others scrapped. Then the parts were cleaned, stripped and phosphateized (Parkerizing is a propriatary process that was not used by the Ordnance Corps after WW-I.) Pistols were assembled from the parts bins. The assemblers took care to match the parts in dimension only. The Ord stamp was applied, the pistol coated with cosmolene, wrapped and packaged for delivery to supply points. Thus, many pistols were ad-lib.
Many of the pistols that escaped rebuild were stolen by individuals or sold to officers. In the 1960's, before computers were in general use, the lists of stolen serial numbers were not in numerical rotation, and it would take months to read through them looking for a number. Finally, in the late 60's, the Government gave up trying to recover the stolen pistols and destroyed the lists.
Ordnance rebuilds were done time and again until the pistols were retired in favor of the Beretta. Some of the late replacement parts were slightly different from original repair parts.
Then there were the national match pistols and General Officer pistols; many made by RIA.
Aside from the historical significance, issue 1911 and 1911A1 pistols are usually inferior to commercial pistols, due to several generations of wear and tear. Phosphateizing, it seems, was used to cover up a myriad of ills.
My Korean War issue pistol consisted of a Colt frame and an Ithaca slide. I spotted several pistols in our armory that had A.J. Savage slides.
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