trigger for colt 1943

[ulfman]

Hallo.
I just have bought me a new colt 1911A1 GHD
but it is the wrong trigger on it.
Can anybody point me in the right direction!!?
Ulfman

[flintsghost]

Two sites can give you some pretty good pictures on which trigger belongs at what serial number range and where the break is approximately in the serials. Click on the thumbnails in...

http://coolgunsite.com/

and you can look at the information and pictures posted in

http://www.model1911a1.com/Colts.htm

with the info they provide you should be able to get a look at the trigger which should be in your Colt. The change from milled to stamped came somewhere in 1944. A short milled with checkering was the first Colt trigger and then they changed to the same stamped/brazed checkered face trigger that all the rest used somewhere prior to 1620000. Hope that helps as far as information is concerned.

[flintsghost]

I went through a couple of auction sights to see what I could find for pictures of the two triggers that might be better than what you would find on the sites I recommended. Here are the best I could find that came from other peoples auctions on Gunbroker and Auction ARms.

First is a 1943 Colt with a milled/checkered trigger

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j296/bb29slider/_DSC5227.jpg

Second is a 1944 Colt with a good view of a stamped/brazed checkered trigger used in later pistols and also in all the other subcontractor versions

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j296/bb29slider/acfd8b3.jpg

These should give you an idea of what you are looking for. Where to find them? Look in the flea market classified sections and there is usually someone selling one or both at various times. The early 1943 can get a little pricey depending on what you are expecting. Also the fact that you are on the other side of the pond can create some problems as most people don't want to ship internationally. Although this type of small part with a value under $100 is not restricted. You might also look at Gun Parts Corp in NY, formerly Numrich but beware, they make a lot of their own after market stuff and while the parts they send out are returnable, that might be a bigger hassle for you in Sweden.

[TattooPaul]

One other feature to look for is on the back end of the stirrup, esp. after the switch to stamped triggers, they placed a notch on the top edge to ease clearance with the sear spring.

[Scott Gahimer]

...
I just have bought me a new colt 1911A1 GHD
but it is the wrong trigger on it....Ulfman

How about some photos? What's the serial number, and what trigger does it have in it now? Are you sure it isn't right?

[ulfman]

Hi all
Here is the gun,I think I need a Milled Checkerd to this.
Thanks for all the answers.
Best reg ulfman
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o86/ulfman1/IMGP2521-1.jpg

[flintsghost]

The trigger in that picture is an early 1911 long milled steel trigger. It's worth more than a short milled checkered trigger and maybe you can trade someone for the one you need.

[Johnny Peppers]

All the Model 1911 pistols had the long trigger, not just the early ones. Problem with a trade is that all 1911 triggers were originally blue, and that one has been refinished to phosphate.
Some like the long trigger for target pistols, so might work out a trade that way.

[TattooPaul]

If I'm not mistaken, that 1911A1 needs a stamped, not milled. short trigger. Hopefully Scott G. will see this and verify. I trust his experitce implicitly. I know a bunch but there are others here that can tell you for sure. _Paul

[Johnny Peppers]

Colt did not use the stamped trigger until 1944. I have 1.131 million with the milled trigger, and 1.148 million with the stamped trigger.

[TattooPaul]

According to Clawson's 2nd edition big book and other collectors talked to over time, as well as photo's viewed, it was phased in gradually around mid - late 1943. They can be seen as early as Colt numbers in the 150,000's (approx.) and milled triggers continued until stock was used up. Once parts made it to the bins they were not used in any order, they just made sure that all checkered or all serrated parts were used on a particular pistol. Begining in mid/late-'43 you will see both stamped and milled triggers. The notch in the top edge of the trigger stirrup was implemented around the same time. It is not uncommon to see later '43's with stamped triggers.

[Johnny Peppers]

I believe if you will check, you will find that Colts in the 150,000 range have long milled triggers.
The pistol in question was shipped in the first or second quarter of 1943.

http://i40.tinypic.com/rwjmdw.jpg

[TattooPaul]

My mistake - I meant the 1,150,000 range (with plenty of leeway on either side) - sorry. There is no hard breaking point when new parts are introduced, just an approval date and when they get tossed in the parts bin. My apologies for the typo - my first one is pretty darned early on!

[Johnny Peppers]

I agree that by serial number 1,150,000 Colt had switched over to the stamped trigger, but not before using up all remaining stocks of the milled triggers. Ordnance had approved the change to the stamped trigger, but Colt was allowed to use all the milled triggers on hand before changing, so no stamped triggers were dumped on top of milled triggers. If we are to believe the "first in, last out" theory, we would still be finding milled triggers and wide spur hammers in the last of the Colt 1911A1's assembled.

[TattooPaul]

They are interspersed. They didn't use all if one then switch over. Karl Karash has an awesome photo CD showing many beautiful samples of 1911's and 'A1's from the various manufacturers and you can see samples of this lack of a hard breaking point to shift useage.

[Johnny Peppers]

If I'm not mistaken, that 1911A1 needs a stamped, not milled. short trigger. _Paul
I have had Karl's CD for years, but would appreciate your pointing out the reason for believing that milled triggers had been phased out on the Colts by No.915113. Also, how much earlier than No.915113 were they phased out?
I too have great faith in Scott's knowledge, and if he agrees that milled triggers had been phased out by the time the Colt in question had been produced, I stand corrected.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2u4mrnd.jpg

[bgiven]

I too was under the impression that Colt didn't start using stamped triggers until early 1944.......All of the correct A1s with very early 1M serial numbers I have owned all had milled triggers.

[kenhwind]

Well I certainly do not know, but in Walter Snyder book "The ITHACA GUN COMPANY" 22ed page 207-8. H. E. Howland remarks about designing the stamped trigger, taking it to Ordnance, getting approval, etc. No specific dates.
But: "On July 27th, 1943, I was appointed Chairman of the Pistol Industry Intergration Committee by General Kirk, Chief of Ordnance, Washington, D.C."
The entire comment is to long to post here and would not be fair to Mr. Snyder.
So it stands to reason that Ithace used the stamped trigger first, then R-R, and Colt probably not until necessary. Remember Colt was also heavily engaged in manufacturing Browning Machine Guns and BAR's.
Ken

[Johnny Peppers]

Ithaca did not get into production until March of 1943, US&S began production in January of 1943, and Remington Rand in November of 1942. US&S used the stamped trigger throughout production, and while Remington Rand stated that they were using the stamped trigger in December of 1942, I have never seen a Remington Rand produced in 1942 with a stamped trigger, and in fact Remington Rand was still using milled triggers in January 1943 production.

http://i42.tinypic.com/r73sw9.jpg

[bgiven]

Johnny,

Outstanding looking Type 1 ..... especially the double stamped Ordnance Crossed Cannons.....

[Johnny Peppers]

Thanks. I will always believe someone was just playing when they gave the pistol two acceptance marks. They are just too evenly spaced and struck to be a bounce. Also, they had to move the first one over to leave room for the second one.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2r2ypus.jpg

[Scott Gahimer]

I believe all my Colt M1911A1 pistols up through this 1.138M piece have the milled triggers. My next Colt is a 1.144M pistol that has the stamped trigger. Johnny says his 1.148M also has the stamped trigger.

Both 1.144 and 1.148M Colts are December 1943 pistols, according to the Colt shipping records listed in Clawson's book.

While I can't speak for every Colt pistol produced in this time period, I do have about (70-75) numbered slide Colts that all have the early milled triggers. This 1.138M piece is my lowest non-numbered slide piece, and it still has a milled trigger.

If a Colt A1 has a numbered slide, I'd say it should probably have a milled trigger as well. Only the earliest of the non-numbered slide Colts will still have a milled trigger.

http://i40.tinypic.com/mrd7dj.jpg

1.138M...That's about where Colt's stopped numbering slides. Due to pistols being completed out of numerical sequence at that time, there may be some numbered slide Colts slightly higher than that.

I would suspect the changeover to stamped triggers at Colt's took place near the 1.140M range, or slightly afterwards. Could a milled trigger show up on a later piece, and still be original? Yes, but that would be an anomaly IMO, and impossible to accept without some doubts. The bottom of the bin theory doesn't usually fly if enough examples are observed.

A later style part isn't nearly as likely to show up on an earlier pistol, especially as early as the 915K serial range at Colt's.

I spend a lot of time talking guns with Johnny every week. I rarely find I know anything he doesn't know. He had already been around the block a time or two before I ever showed up on the scene with a collectible 45.

[TattooPaul]

I have had Karl's CD for years, but would appreciate your pointing out the reason for believing that milled triggers had been phased out on the Colts by No.915113. Also, how much earlier than No.915113 were they phased out?
I too have great faith in Scott's knowledge, and if he agrees that milled triggers had been phased out by the time the Colt in question had been produced, I stand corrected.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2u4mrnd.jpg


I read that number as 1915113 - what I read as the 1 turns out to be the underlined "o". I definitely need to upgrade to 200x readong glasses.

An 'A1 in to 900,000 range absolutely needs a short, milled trigger. I, Johnny, stand corrected as I did not look close enough with glasses on to read his number properly. My apologies.

I do stand by the fact that part transition was done with out a hard date of using up the old and then turnng to the new.

Again, my apologies for reading his number as 1,9XX,XXX