New 1911 Owner: Few Upgrade Questions

[DKRanger22]

Hey gang,

This is my first post on the Forums. There is a ton of information on here - really looks to be a good resource. I look forward to interacting with this great community.

I will be picking up my first 1911 tomorrow - a Kimber Eclipse Ultra II. My friend just purchased his first Kimber today (1911 Ultra Crimson Carry), and I fell in love with the Crimson Trace grips on his. I'm wondering where the best place to get these would be (definitely have to be the rosewood finish).

Only other upgrades for me at this time will be a couple of Wilson Combat mags. Any suggestions as to the cheapest place to get these (So far, found em' on Cheaper Than Dirt for $20.4/ea).

Thanks for your help!

[kenhwind]

Welcome
Beware of the cheapest place. I've got seconds more than once, but not always.

Yes the information here is fascinating

Ken

[Frank]

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/4615/welcome6ld.gif

DVC

[BadaBing11]

Congrats on your Eclipse, I have the Pro II version and love it. Look forward to a range report. :wc:

Jeff

[Nathan]

I fell in love with the Crimson Trace grips on his. I'm wondering where the best place to get these. . .

IMO, learn to shoot with the sights well first, then ask yourself if you are still in love

. . .couple of Wilson Combat mags. . .

IMO, you might be happier with the Checkmate magazines. The Checkmates are a better design. Check out the group buy here (http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=63340). IMO #3 might be the best mag available anywhere at any price.

[Frank]

+1 on learning to use the sights first before trying a laser. Effective use of a laser still requires that you have basic marksmanship skills, especially trigger control. A laser won't make up for poor trigger control.

If you don't manage the trigger properly, you will miss, whether you're using a laser or the sights. And IME, the best way to learn good trigger control is by using the sights -- maintaining a hard focus on the front sight while pressing the trigger straight back with only the trigger finger moving until the shot breaks by surprise.

DVC

[Nathan]

My first response was a little arrogant sounding, but IME, sights are kind of a best practice because the reenforce holding the pistol well and controlling the trigger. They also do not leave a trail back to the pistol like a laser.

Last, the mags I directed you to are the best, IMO. I am selling some Wilson Combat 7rds mags to go to Checkmates completely. I had good enough luck with the Wilson Combat 7rd mags until the mag springs wore out. A good thing is that Wilson will replace those under warranty, no questions asked. When I replaced them, all was well again. I did try 8rd conversions and all was not well with those. Wilson probably would have helped me make those right. . .but frankly I'm not even sure there was something wrong. I personally just did not like the way the follower was held in the mag. No shooting failures to report.

[atomemphis]

I have some Checkmates on order, but I'd really recommend taking a good hard look at Tripp Research Cobra Mags as well. They are the favorite of my bunch. Plus, they are a great group of folks to work with (especially when you order the wrong product because you hadn't had your coffee yet).

Regarding the lasergrips, I have some guns with lasers, and its more of a thing to joke around about with friends. The front sight is the only thing I worry about when I'm shooting.

Aiming by hoping to see that little red dot on the other's person seems like a big time waste. That being said, Ft. Worth Police among others will counter with the benefits of deterring an attacker by showing them, on their person, where the round is about to go. This was in relation to CCW.

I still think they are nifty, and a bit sci-fi/movie related, but I do not want to ever think that's the best way to aim: It simply isn't.

Where to buy them? Kimber's website has the Crimson Trace Laser Grips, in rosewood, and probably have the Kimber logo somewhere on them.

[Nathan]

. . .That being said, Ft. Worth Police among others will counter with the benefits of deterring an attacker by showing them, on their person, where the round is about to go. This was in relation to CCW.. . .

Do they carry laser sighted guns?

[atomemphis]

That I do not know. They were answering a question regarding concealed carry handguns and the benefit of lasers not being as much for the shooter's aim, but in the "shootee's" perception of "heck. i am about to get shot right there, in my middle parts."

[Frank]

About lasers, a couple of years ago I was at Gunsite for a rifle class. The three instructors each had CT grips on their sidearms (it's run as a hot range and pretty much everyone is armed simply as SOP). So during a break we were chatting, and I asked them about lasers and what they thought of them.

Basically what they told me is that they were using them to try them out and try to decide if they were really useful and if so, how to best use them. The consensus at the time was that they hadn't come to any definite conclusions. But they weren't necessarily helpful in all situations. They were actually slower than acquiring a flash sight picture. However, they did, at least preliminarily, believe that they had some uses in certain situations. For example, a laser allowed one to fire accurately from an awkward position, such as behind cover, in which it was difficult or impossible to acquire the sights. They could also be useful in close quarter "point shooting" situations. But they were specialized devices and not tools of general application. And they emphasized that one still needed good trigger control.

DVC

[jam16]

My three concerns with lasers are:
1. they can become a crutch for good old fashioned aiming via the sites. This means that if at any point your laser fails, then becuase you lack confidence with using your sites, you are at a disadvantage.
2. My next issue is that a laser can also give your location away and to me part of CCW carry is the element of surprise.
3. Since a laser is sighted to be on target at a said point (say 25 ft) you have to able estimate how much closer or farther your target is and consequently adjust your elevation accordingly (keep in mind all of this is occurring in a situation of high adrenalin)

[Frank]

... a laser can also give your location away and to me part of CCW carry is the element of surprise....This is probably a small matter. As soon as you shoot, you've given away your position. And in any case, the assailant knows where you are anyway, otherwise it's doubtful that you'd be able to justify the use of lethal force in self defense (except, perhaps, in some very special situations.)

... Since a laser is sighted to be on target at a said point (say 25 ft) you have to able estimate how much closer or farther your target is and consequently adjust your elevation accordingly (keep in mind all of this is occurring in a situation of high adrenalin)....This really isn't an issue:

[1] Most good laser devices, including the Crimson Trace grips, allow you to set your zero. Your sights are, in any case, also regulated for a particular distance.

[2] Trajectory of even a .45 ACP bullet is not so extreme that you would need to holdover at any normal handgun distance. If your sights (or laser) are zeroed (POI = POA) at somewhere between 15 yards and 25 yards, POI will be close enough to POA anywhere from contact to about 30 yards, and distance could effectively be ignored. With a 25 yard zero, a 230 grain .45 ACP bullet with a muzzle velocity of 830 fps has dropped only 2.4 inches at 50 yeards.

... they [lasers] can become a crutch for good old fashioned aiming via the sites.....You have a point here. Lasers are specialized tools for special circumstances. Your sights are your best bet under most conditions.

DVC

[atomemphis]

Lasers are specialized tools for special circumstances.

Movies. :p

[Nathan]

. . ."shootee's" perception of "heck. i am about to get shot right there, in my middle parts."
. . .or, I better start shootin' as fast as I can in front of me because I've been dotted!