Combat Elite

[wichaka]

A few months ago OD* had a Colt Gunsite for sale. Due to unforeseen bills, I just couldn't get the deal done. This is the same pistol that Justin Time has now.

Anyway, I came up with the money a day late and a dollar short. Every time I see that gun, I wince with pain! :D Justin you got a very fine pistol!

I was looking thru Gun Broker a couple weeks back and saw a Colt Combat Elite for sale, by none other than former moderator DSK. It didn't sell, so I contacted him and I got a very good deal.

It's an early 1987 production, still in the box, with very few rounds fired. Nary a scratch on it.
I always wanted one since I saw one back in 1986. Now that I have it, not sure what to do with it.

So without further ado...

http://w3.gorge.net/scshields/ce1.jpg


http://w3.gorge.net/scshields/ce4.jpg

[A.B.]

Beautiful. See, you live well, good things come to you. :appld:

Now that I have it, not sure what to do with it.OK, I'll leave this softball for the next poster, but I have dibs. (hint: prepaid return shipping)

[wetidlerjr]

... Now that I have it, not sure what to do with it...

Shoot it ? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/wetidlerjr/Smilies/confused-smiley-013.gif

[Rich-D]

Very Nice! I really do like that Colt!

Best of Luck!
Rich

[vashooter]

Beautiful Combat Elite!! :appld: What to do with it?? Shoot it little , store it a lot, look at it a lot. (jokingly) see if the dust cover rubs the slide ;) Floyd

[OD*]

Beautiful pistol, Steve! :appld:

I have always liked the looks of those.

[JustinTime]

Beautiful pistol, Steve! :appld:

I have always liked the looks of those.

I agree. I traded a remington 700 sendero for a Combat Elite (same model as yours). My grandfather now has it.

[texagun]

Very nice find Steve. Nice ones are getting hard to find. I've got one just like yours that I bought years ago but have never been able to pin down the year it was made. My serial number is GC03660. The only thing I have changed is the grips (it originally came with the rubber grips identical to yours).


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y46/w5lx/ColtCombatElite-web.jpg

[wichaka]

I have found the models with the dished out grip safety, like the newer commanders have, were late 1986 to early 1987.

I have wondered why Colt put serrations on the front grip strap, when they put wrap around grips on them.

No dust cover rubbing on this one...am wondering about Colt quality of late.

[JustinTime]

I have found the models with the dished out grip safety, like the newer commanders have, were late 1986 to early 1987.

I have wondered why Colt put serrations on the front grip strap, when they put wrap around grips on them.

No dust cover rubbing on this one...am wondering about Colt quality of late.

I have wondered the same thing about the front strap serrations. Oh and about Colt's current quality.

[JustinTime]

Very good looking pistol Texagun.

[paul45]

Very nice and congrats! I saw that when it was on GB. I'm very glad you got it......the older CEs beat out the new ones in my book.

[OD*]

.....the older CEs beat out the new ones in my book.
Yep, I feel the same.

[Hunter]

Nice pistol Steve.
The Combat Elite was my first Colt.

[wjkuleck]

It's an early 1987 production, still in the box, with very few rounds fired. Nary a scratch on it. I always wanted one since I saw one back in 1986. Now that I have it, not sure what to do with it.

What's the model number on the box, may I ask?

Thanks.

Regards,

Walt

[JustinTime]

Very nice and congrats! I saw that when it was on GB. I'm very glad you got it......the older CEs beat out the new ones in my book.

I feel the same as well Paul.

[clughog]

Awesome look'n pistol, Steve. Congratulations!

[cwo4uscgret]

Something old, something new. Nice 1st Edition CE you have there - I think your rear sight has been changed - but I could be mistaken. I know my Enhanced Series 80 Combat Elite has adjustable sights but I thought the original version had adjustables as well.

http://iwantthatknife.com/Gallery/albums/EBR/colts_right_side.sized.jpg

I bought this Combat Elite and 1908 at the same show, on the same day. Double score!

[wjkuleck]

I know my Enhanced Series 80 Combat Elite has adjustable sights but I thought the original version had adjustables as well.

According to the 1986 Catalog, wherein the O8011 Combat Elite was introduced, the sights were fixed.

Regards,

Walt

[Joni Lynn]

Very nice, congrats.
What to do with it? Enjoy it of course. (safely)

[wichaka]

Elites didn't have adjustable sights until the 'Enhanced' version came out...if I remember right.

It's all original right down to the series 70 style collett barrel bushing.
I was unaware of that feature.

I talked with a Colt collector today, so go quite a bit of insight to the model and it's versions.

Model number is CO8011

texagun, yours is older than mine. Mine is # 6953. I may have to call Colt to get a year of make.

Anyone have that number?

I have decided to keep it all original, and shoot it every now and then. I shot it the night after I got it, and remembered why I like beavertail grip safeties!
I didn't get hammer bit, but that short grip safety has a way of digging into the web, and the edges are the usual Colt sharp!

[cwo4uscgret]

Elites didn't have adjustable sights until the 'Enhanced' version came out...if I remember right.

It's all original right down to the series 70 style collett barrel bushing.
I was unaware of that feature.

I talked with a Colt collector today, so go quite a bit of insight to the model and it's versions.

Model number is CO8011

texagun, yours is older than mine. Mine is # 6953. I may have to call Colt to get a year of make.

Anyone have that number?

I have decided to keep it all original, and shoot it every now and then. I shot it the night after I got it, and remembered why I like beavertail grip safeties!
I didn't get hammer bit, but that short grip safety has a way of digging into the web, and the edges are the usual Colt sharp!
Thanks for the reply Walt - obviously the info I read (or misread) on another website was wrong...

Wichaka - good looking gun.

My enhanced s/n is 006465E - what I didn't get with mine were the original wraparound grips.

[daveohno]

Congratulations on your find, Wichaka!

[kenhwind]

"The Combat Government Model" was the first incarnation. It Had the 1911 trigger, the serrated front strap, the lowered and flared ejection port, and high profile sights. A close friend bought a used one, just before I could, so I patterned my guns after this one. His gun got stolen unfortunatly.

Ken

[wjkuleck]

Model number is CO8011 texagun, yours is older than mine. Mine is # 6953. I may have to call Colt to get a year of make.

We can presume it's between '86 and '92, when the O8011E was introduced (per the '92 catalog). The O8011E was equipped with the "Accro" adjustable rear sight.

And "Coastie," you're very welcome!

Regards,

Walt

[JustinTime]

"The Combat Government Model" was the first incarnation. It Had the 1911 trigger, the serrated front strap, the lowered and flared ejection port, and high profile sights. A close friend bought a used one, just before I could, so I patterned my guns after this one. His gun got stolen unfortunatly.

Ken

Ken, I did not correct you the first time you posted that the Combat Government is the predecessor to the Combat Elite as I don't want you to feel I'm following you around trying to correct you. I want you to feel welcome. However, while the Combat Government and Combat Elite share a few similarities; the Combat Government is not the predecessor to the Combat Elite. In fact they are two totally different models with no relation according to Colt. With the exception they are both Colt government models.

[kenhwind]

They do look similar. with the exception of the SS frame, front sight and slide markings, his gun looked very much like the fixed sight Elite posted here.
Nobody can keep track of the variations.
The Elite superseded the CGM may have been more correct.
I forgot more than I remember.

Ken
and I think his gun had the Series 70 beavertail grip safety.

[A.B.]

.
Nobody can keep track of the variations.
Well, we try very hard to do just that. Once an inaccuracy is put on the web, it never goes away (unless it is linked to Photobucket :o ).

On that point, "technically correct" is just "correct." No other kind, in these matters. Just saying, not trying to discourage you.

[wichaka]

texagun, does yours have the collett barrel bushing?

[wjkuleck]

According to the 1986 catalog, the O8011 Combat Elite (fixed sight) was introduced that year. The O8111FS Combat Government was also in the 1986 catalog, but disappeared from the '87 edition, so we can reasonably assume that '86 was the last year for the O8111FS.

According to the '86 catalog the O8011 was two-tone, the O8111FS blue.

Regards,

Walt

[wjkuleck]

Well, we try very hard to do just that. Once an inaccuracy is put on the web, it never goes away (unless it is linked to Photobucket :o ).

On that point, "technically correct" is just "correct." No other kind, in these matters. Just saying, not trying to discourage you.

On that point, I am gathering up all the Colt catalogs and price lists I can find so as to have the best sources I can. If anyone has any or all of the following years & would like to part with them, let me know:

pre-1977 (some exceptions, I'll need to go back & check the files. Most of the really early catalogs don't seem to include product codes, e.g., '74 and '75, though presumably the price lists would. At least my '76 price list does though my '76 catalog does not)
1977-1985
1988-1990
1994
1996-1998
2001-2002
2006-2007

Thanks.

Regards,

Walt

[kenhwind]

"The Combat Government Model" was the first incarnation.
Ken
I should have posted "Series 70 Combat Government Model" There is a new thread, hopefully some pics

Ken
a moderators headache

[wjkuleck]

I should have posted "Series 70 Combat Government Model" There is a new thread, hopefully some pics

Ken
a moderators headache

—which is likely coded "O8111," the Series 80 version (presumably) being O8111FS. O8111 must have been introduced and then superseded by the O8111FS sometime between 1976 and 1986, which is a regrettable gap in my catalogs.

Regards,

Walt

[WBB]

Congratulation's on a nice Colt.

[kenhwind]

This is the information that was bouncing around between my ears.

27th Edition “Blue Book of Gun Values” page 518
“Series 70 Combat Govt. - .45 ACP cal., bluish-black metal finish, features modifications for combat shooting, forerunner to the Combat Elite.”

If this is technically correct or not I cannot say.
As I posted earlier, and my mistake on the posts, the Special “Combat Government Model is the predecessor to the “Combat Elite”

I should have, and I should have known better, to post that the pistol I was referring to was a “Series 70 Combat Government Model”

No wonder we have rules. Misinformation is a disservice to those who haven’t been around long enough to have owned 30 different 1911 type pistols over the years, like I have. . If I’m wrong I’ll admit it, if I disagree or feel otherwise, I will certainly try to verify the matter.

And thanks for the input

Ken
A moderator’s headache

[OD*]

27th Edition “Blue Book of Gun Values” page 518
“Series 70 Combat Govt. - .46 ACP cal.,
Does it really say .46 caliber?

[OD*]

On that point, "technically correct" is just "correct." No other kind, in these matters.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. ;)

[wjkuleck]

This is the information that was bouncing around between my ears.

27th Edition “Blue Book of Gun Values” page 518
“Series 70 Combat Govt. - .46 ACP cal., bluish-black metal finish, features modifications for combat shooting, forerunner to the Combat Elite.”

If this is technically correct or not I cannot say.
As I posted earlier, and my mistake on the posts, the Special “Combat Government Model is the predecessor to the “Combat Elite”

I should have, and I should have known better, to post that the pistol I was referring to was a “Series 70 Combat Government Model”

No wonder we have rules. Misinformation is a disservice to those who haven’t been around long enough to have owned 30 different 1911 type pistols over the years, like I have. . If I’m wrong I’ll admit it, if I disagree or feel otherwise, I will certainly try to verify the matter.

And thanks for the input

Ken
A moderator’s headache

A major reason that I'm getting my information from catalogs is that it's the horse's mouth. The Blue Book and Standard Catalog are hard to use, not reliably authoritative (they may be correct, but I have no way of knowing without going to the source materials—catalogs and price lists—so I don't even bother with them any more), and do not reference Colt Model Numbers.

I'd like to encourage folks when posting their Colt pictures to include the Model Number if they have the original box. That could really help the effort to develop a reliable data base.

Regards,

Walt

[OD*]

That could really help the effort to develop a reliable data base.

Regards,

Walt
For the most part yes, unfortunalty Colt has used the same model numbers for different pistols in the past. The O1991 is a good example, the O1991-M1991A1 is not the same as the current model number O1991-Government Model.

[kenhwind]

OD
No sir, of course not. will edit thanks

Walt I'm in agreement there.

Ken

[OD*]

OD
No sir, of course not. will edit thanks

Ken
Hey, they have printed mistakes before, thought I check. ;)

[wjkuleck]

For the most part yes, unfortunalty Colt has used the same model numbers for different pistols in the past. The O1991 is a good example, the O1991-M1991A1 is not the same as the current model number O1991-Government Model.

OD, in what ways would you say they differ, aside from the finish and roll marks? The "aluminum trigger" and beveled mag well?

http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/images/1991Series_O1991.jpg
FEATURES
http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/Images/Bullet.gif Aluminum trigger
http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/Images/Bullet.gif Single action
http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/Images/Bullet.gif Fixed sights
http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/Images/Bullet.gif .45 ACP
http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/Images/Bullet.gif 7 + 1 round capacity
http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/Images/Bullet.gif Beveled magazine well
http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/Images/Bullet.gif Standard thumb safety and service style grip safety
http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/Images/Bullet.gif Available Models:
- O1991: Government 1991
- O1091: Government 1991 Stainless
- O4691: Commander
- O4091U: Commander Stainless

It would be interesting (well, to me, if no one else) to track the incremental changes. As I build up my catalog database that may become possible.

Regards,

Walt
PS Still in need of help with catalogs... :)

[myanof]

Very nice. I have always like those guns.

[OD*]

Mostly they differ in rollmarkings and finishes (1991A1 used two different types on the carbon steel versions), also the plastic trigger, stocks (the M1991A1 used two different styles during its run). If the finishes and rollmarking aren't enough to have them considered different pistols, then they both could be called nothing more than MKIV Series 80s. ;)

[BluegrazzGuy]

Very nice find! And to pitch in a bit on the knowledge base, I bought my Combat Elite in 1988 from a local dealer. I still have the original box and papers. Model number is 08011, serial number CG 07856. My grips have the gold medallion and is "flat," meaning it doesn't have that diagonal ridge as the new models do and as Wichaka's appears to in the second photo. Below is a bad picture of it but it is the only one I have with the original grips on it.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x223/KyJim_photos/Colt_CombatElite.jpg

[wichaka]

From what I have been told, the 1986 & 87 models had the silver 150th year grip medallions.

[JustinTime]

If the finishes and rollmarking aren't enough to have them considered different pistols, then they both could be called nothing more than MKIV Series 80s.

Couldn't agree more.

[wjkuleck]

Couldn't agree more.

They do seem to retain a basic character, with changes in cosmetics and ornamentation. Kinda like automobiles, which these days go for years with minor trim changes & different color choices.

Rightly or wrongly I consider them to be the same.

Regards,

Walt

[wjkuleck]

From what I have been told, the 1986 & 87 models had the silver 150th year grip medallions.

Sadly, the Catalog pictures for both years show gold-color medallions for the O8011s. Some models are shown with silver medallions, the majority being stainless steel models, but there seems to be no rhyme nor reason.

Colt makes no mention of an anniversary medallion, an odd omission.

Regards,

Walt

[wichaka]

The only thing consistent about Colt, is its inconsistency!

[wjkuleck]

The only thing consistent about Colt, is its inconsistency!

Product planning has not been Colt's long suit since before WWII.

Regards,

Walt

[OD*]

Rightly or wrongly I consider them to be the same.

Regards,

Walt
"I need a new trigger for my O1991."
"What finish does my O1991 have?":D

[mudstud]

I once had a Combat Elite identical to wichaka's. It had 150th year silver medallions on the grips, and the barrel was marked "N.M.", as well. The serial number was CG045XX. It was stolen from me 10 years ago this month. I still have the box and papers, a sad reminder! I have, as well, a more recent "2nd edition", enhanced version with the Accro rear sight, and recently nabbed the latest iteration "XSE" version, but I still miss my old Combat Elite!

[wjkuleck]

"I need a new trigger for my O1991."
"What finish does my O1991 have?":D

Same questions would apply to my '07 Pilot compared to my '03, but they are/were the same Model :).

In sober seriousness, though, I view your position as completely valid. I'm a product of my epistemology, which included a number of years running automobile and motorcycle parts departments, where running changes where the norm ("What was that serial number, again?"), not to mention the cosmetic differences ("No, Aztec Gold was the '76 color, you have a '77, and that's Naples Gold").

So going from matte to gloss or steel to aluminum trigger doesn't constitute a material/model change to me, though it may well to another.

Very best regards, and with the greatest respect,

Walt

[kenhwind]

If we get too serious there were only three different 1911 pistols and the Colt GM as well as the North American Arms.

Ken

[JustinTime]

If we get too serious there were only three different 1911 pistols and the Colt GM as well as the North American Arms.

Ken

The M1991A1 and 1991 models are an exception because Colt flubbed up and carried the M1991A1 part number over to the 1991 series of pistols. That is why the "slang" ORM and NRM has come about. You won't find those terms within Colt either.

[OD*]

If we get too serious there were only three different 1911 pistols and the Colt GM as well as the North American Arms.

Ken
What? Are you using 1911 generally or specifically?

[kenhwind]

General speaking they are all refered to as 1911's, but specifically there were only three 1911's. Maybe I was being too facetious. Are we splitting fractions?

Ken

[OD*]

There was Colt, Springfield Armory (the original) and Remington-UMC. North American Arms Company Ltd. cannot be counted, they were awarded a contract (NO. WAR ORD P-11092-1953SA), but there is no evidence that I know of that any completed pistols were accepted by U.S. Ordnance. There were 5 makers of M1911A1.

[OD*]

Are we splitting fractions?
I don't believe so, all you have to do is pick up an example of each, one is clearly marked M1991A1 and the other is clearly marked Government Model. If rollmarkings do not distinguish models, then the current Combat Elite is nothing more than a two tone XSE.

[kenhwind]

The model specification are definitly different models, but in general the pistols are called 1911's. Which is not correct: 1911 / GM; 1911A1 / GM ; Commander etc. And i guess some slight changes may justify a new model number.
I was half asleep.
General they are all certainly 1911 type pistols and variations, but as you also noted there were only three actual 1911 pistols.
I guess I started something. Oh well it is a forum lets have a little fun.

Ken
Did I fall out of the frying pan and into the fire?

[OD*]

There were 3 M1911s, and 1 Government Model, 5 M1911A1s and 1 Government Model.

This hopefully this will clear the M1911/1911 matter up.
http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=34750

[kenhwind]

Yes sir
Nice thread nice pics, my intial reply may have been justified, but not on this thread. Actually there was no reason to post it.

Ken