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wot_racing
4th February 2009, 16:22
I stumbled upon a gentleman that had "an old colt" in my town.. He offered to send me pictures of the weapon.. Here is his picture and his email..

http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr225/wot_racing/image001.jpg

Colts Model 1911 .45 serial number 70511, looking at the left side, on the frame, the WGP (Walter G. Penfield) inspector cartouche stamp. On the front of the frame is stamped united states property. On the slide the last patented date is FEB. 14 1911, in the center of the slide is Colts PT. F. A. MFTG CO. Hartford CT. U.S.A. At the rear of the slide is the un-circled colt.

The right side, of the slide is MODEL OF 1911. U.S. ARMY. Looking at the frame just above the long type trigger is 70511. Looking at the top of the slide, through the ejection port at the barrel, H P Stamped horizontal on the barrel. With the slide pulled back, and locked, looking through the port, to the top of the frame bellow, just below the firing pin, H 2 Stamped on the frame. On the rear of the slide, just above the hammer is H stamped on the slide.

On the top of the slide are alignment marks for both front and rear sights. Tapered front sight, Type B Flat-top rear sight with the “ U “ sight notch, Has the checkering grip on the slide stop, thumb safety, and hammer. Has the colt original walnut double dia. Grip’s.

(The above exact proof stamps and markings on the Colts M1911 started around serial number 20,000 and lasted to 83,856. (Production period January 1913 to May 11, 1914.)

At the time in April 1914, when Colts model 1911 serial number 70511 was shipped, Colt was still the only producer of the M1911, followed by Springfield, which was government owned and operated. Springfield’s first M1911 began at serial number 72571



Colts Model 1911 .45 serial number 70511

(The lady 70511), has scars and scratches) none were ever covered by make-up or a face lift. The .45 automatic travels would have started out, in a shipment of arms from the Colts factory, April 23, 1914 to Commanding Officer General Thomas J. Stewart, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania’s National Guard’s 7th Division.

In 1916 the 7th Division (know at that time) was sent to support of the Punitive Expedition against Poncho Villa, in guarding the US/Mexican border.

Colts no. 70511 .45 and the 7th Division, after returning to Harrisburg PA. With the on-set of World War One facing our nation, and on July 9, 1917 Pennsylvania was among the first eleven states to be called, and all other states were to be officially drafted into federal service by August 5, 1917.

The 7th Division along with all of Pennsylvania’s National Guard Units were organized together and training begins at Camp Hancock Georgia, July 15, 1917, commanded by Major Charles M. Clement. All of the Pennsylvania’s guard division’s were highly recognized, and were combined together, while still in training to become the 28th Infantry, of the 56th Brigade.

Colt’s 70511 became a part of the fighting force of the famous 28th Division, 56th Brigade.

The 28th Division while they were still training at Camp Hancock, Georgia received the second shoulder sleeve patch to receive official army approval,

the (Red Keystone). Due to the fighting ability of the 28th Division, the famous insignia Key Stone patch would later in war, be referred to by the German’s Army as the bucket of blood.

April 21, 1918 Colt’s .45 no.70511, was in the company of the 28th Division leaving Camp Hancock, Georgia, en route to Camp Upton, New York.

On April 29, 1918 the division is aboard a slow moving, steam powered ship, watching as the coast line of the United States, fades from sight. Arriving at Liverpool, England on May 7th, and after a brief rest, proceed via Dover to Southampton, and to Calais France.



The men of Pennsylvania National Guard (28th Division) received their first true baptism of fire on July 15, 1918 during the German Army’s Champagne-Marne Offensive. The 28th Division along with a French Division was attached to the front line. In the early hours of July 15, the German 36th division crossed the Marne River and attacked the allied front. Being heavily out numbered by the German attacking force, the French division fell back, leaving the Pennsylvania’s 28th surrounded. Wave after wave the German’s charged the remaining 28th Division, despite their overwhelming odds; the 28th stubbornly held their position and inflicted heavy casualties. In just one unit of 500 assigned officers and men, only 150 remained.

That day soldiers of the 28th Division earned the title of being called (The Iron Division) and (Men of Iron)



Colts Model 1911 serial number 70511 was in the company of one of America’s Finest, The 28th Division of the 56th Brigade.

Soldiers of the 28th participated in six major campaigns during WW1, the Marne, Aisne-Marne, Oise-Marne, Lorraine, Chauteua-Thierry Sector, and the most noted the Meuse-Argonne.



After the Armistice was signed, the 28th Division remained in the Thiaucourt Sector, in Toul France until January 9, 1919. Moved then to Colombey-Les-Bells until the later part of March, then to LeMans to the Embarkation Center (preparatory center) for the trip home.

M1911 (70511) found its way to the mountains of Harlan County, Kentucky.

Before and after WW1, and especially during the depression, the eastern Kentucky coal fields were flooded with immigrants from ever country trying to find work.

My wife’s grandfather carried the .45 in the 1920s through the early 1990s, here in Harlan County, defending the labor rights of the coal miners, trying to establish the United Mine Workers Union (UMWA) here in the mountain coal fields. In the earlier years, during the labor disputes the county was called, and still sometimes referred to as Bloody Harlan.

SERIAL NUMBER 70511 HAS THE PROUD HONOR OF BEING

One of the 63,856 to have the exact markings and proof stamps. (COLTS IDENTIFICATION PLATE # 4) January 1913 to May 1914.



At the end of WW1, and our troops were returning their .45s back to the U S Government, out of an estimated 520,000 of government issued .45 automatic pistols, well over 100,000 were never returned, and the remaining estimated 420,000 were sent to arsenals to be reworked, and parts interchanged.

In the first years, when Colt was the only one producing the model 1911, few changes were made, some were the location of the serial number, the walnut grips, the circle around the rampant colt.

One particular set of these changes started at (serial number 20,000, in January 1913, and lasted to number 83,856 May 11, 1914). In this era of production, number 70511 was shipped from the Colt’s factory on April 23, 1914.

Resulting in, (serial number 70511), not only being one of the 520,000 in use during WW1, or being one of missing, estimated of over 100,000, that wasn’t turned in. (ONE OF THE 63,856), from serial number 20000 to # 83856 to have the exact proof stampings and the location of markings, (ONE OF THE RARE AND VERY FEW, to still be all ORIGINAL, that WAS NEVER SENT TO A ARSINAL, to HAVE PARTS CHANGED OUT, or REWORKED, and what makes the .45 automatic even more special is its 94 years of history this April 2008.





SERIAL NUMBER 70511, HAS BEEN THEIR, SEEN IT, AND DONE IT,





The model 1911 .45 has traveled from Colts factory to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania in April 1914, to Mexico 1916, back home to Pennsylvania, to Camp Hancock Georgia to become a part of the 56th Brigade’s 28th(Red Keystone) Infantry, to France, from one trench line on to another, and into Germany, in late 1919, back to the United States expecting to rest, and being called to duty again in the early 1920s, to defend the labor rights of the Harlan County, Kentucky coal miners, with labor disputes lasting off and on until the early 1990s.

tsellati
4th February 2009, 17:01
Wow, is an understatement. What a gorgeous pistol and a fascinating history. So, I must ask, are you going to acquire this beauty from the gentleman or is here merely whetting your appetite for the unattainable?

Tim

wot_racing
4th February 2009, 17:03
At this point, I don't know.. If he will part with it, I will get it..

bgiven
4th February 2009, 21:03
WOW.... but it's not a 'Black Army' , and the gentleman in Harlan has tried to market this example prior.

Remember..... 'Buy the gun.... not the story'.....

Scott Gahimer
4th February 2009, 21:28
I believe that pistol has been shopped around to sell in the past few months. I believe it was even on an Internet auction or sales site. I remember part of this sales pitch.

This is a major sales pitch.

Colt M1911 s/n 70511 was 1 of 1300 pistols shipped to the address "Brig. General Thoms J. Stewart, Harrisburg, PA." as recorded in the Colt shipping records.

It was not the General's pistol, but one of 1300 pistols shipped for use in the PA National Guard.

Those are the facts about the pistol.

The rest of "the history" about the pistol is actually history about a unit...not a pistol.

The part about how the pistol was used after it was "liberated" is not history, but rather heresay or perhaps a family story.

All the M1911 pistols that remained in use after WWI were not rebuilt, refinished or mismatched. That simply is not true. Some were rebuilt, refinished and/or mismatched. Pistols were only rebuilt or refinished as needed.

Unless there are specific military records which cite information on this pistol, by serial number, all the history about the unit is interesting, but it means nothing as far as this pistol is concerned.

How do we know this pistol didn't stay in PA, or how do we know it wasn't "liberated" to KY long before the 1916 action in Mexico?

We know it is in KY now, and we know when and where it was originally shipped. Everything in between is sales pitch.

wot_racing
4th February 2009, 21:46
WOW.... but it's not a 'Black Army' , and the gentleman in Harlan has tried to market this example prior.

Remember..... 'Buy the gun.... not the story'.....


Interesting, Is there a link or something to this please?

Scott Gahimer
4th February 2009, 22:44
I don't think it would be appropriate to post a link on this board to a pistol that is for sale. Some might consider that "stumping" or promoting the sale of an item.

tsellati
5th February 2009, 23:33
I believe that pistol has been shopped around to sell in the past few months. I believe it was even on an Internet auction or sales site. I remember part of this sales pitch.

This is a major sales pitch.

Colt M1911 s/n 70511 was 1 of 1300 pistols shipped to the address "Brig. General Thoms J. Stewart, Harrisburg, PA." as recorded in the Colt shipping records.

It was not the General's pistol, but one of 1300 pistols shipped for use in the PA National Guard.

Those are the facts about the pistol.

The rest of "the history" about the pistol is actually history about a unit...not a pistol.

The part about how the pistol was used after it was "liberated" is not history, but rather heresay or perhaps a family story.

All the M1911 pistols that remained in use after WWI were not rebuilt, refinished or mismatched. That simply is not true. Some were rebuilt, refinished and/or mismatched. Pistols were only rebuilt or refinished as needed.

Unless there are specific military records which cite information on this pistol, by serial number, all the history about the unit is interesting, but it means nothing as far as this pistol is concerned.

How do we know this pistol didn't stay in PA, or how do we know it wasn't "liberated" to KY long before the 1916 action in Mexico?

We know it is in KY now, and we know when and where it was originally shipped. Everything in between is sales pitch.

Hey, I get to pat myself on the back because I came away from reading the original post with exactly the same impression and conclusions. I pegged what was fact and what was conjecture. Now if I can memorize what markings should be found where and are appropriate for a particular maker and time frame and I get to hold some correct examples in my hot little hands I will be all set to pick up my first 1911/1911A1 pistol.

Tim

Scott Gahimer
6th February 2009, 10:26
It will take time and experience looking at a lot of pistols to know what to expect with each variation and sub-variation. Just for fun and to learn, start picking a manufacturer and serial range...then try to describe the pistol in detail. Then go back and check yourself to your Collector's Guide.

Hoepfully you have Charles W. Clawson's 3rd Edition (2003) Collector's Guide. With that book for reference, and a little help when needed, you'll not have to memorize anything to make good purchases.

I think we all still refer to the reference books at times when we're having a senior moment and can't remember our phone number, let alone the speciifc serial range a change occured. Mr. Clawson still sometimes double checks himself with his book. That's the whole purpose of the books...for reference...so we don't have to remember anything.