Series 70 Reproduction, Bad build, worse service.

[Peacemonger]

I returned my Series 70 reproduction to Colt on October 15, 2008 because the slide was rubbing on the dust cover (sound familiar?), the barrel was not locking up correctly, and a number of minor issues. I ordered it sight unseen. Bad mistake.

Paul, the head of the repair shop at the time, quoted me 35 working days to fix the weapon after acknowledging the defects. I also had them checker the frame, install a commander hammer, add a long trigger, lower and flare the ejection port, and do a trigger job.

The weapon was returned today, long after the due date.

The custom work is excellent.

The factory slide flaw is not fixed. The barrel lockup is OK but the extractor isn't. It bounces cases off my forehead now. I guess brass on the head beats the bullet but I'd prefer neither.

The slide is obviously off center - I mean not even close - and the dust cover is still chewing metal They appear to have simply re-blued the gun after checkering it and polishing out the original rub marks on the slide. New rub marks were apparent after 25 rounds through the 'fixed' gun. I stopped shooting at that point to minimize further damage.

I called customer service after returning from the range and cooling off. They are sending me a shipping tag and the gun is going back for God knows how long.

I am also told Paul is working on the floor and a man named Dick is doing his previous job of supervising repairs.

I'm disgusted with Colt's performance and hope this is the exception rather than the rule.

[paul45]

Ouch, sorry to hear about this .......AGAIN!

[cwo4uscgret]

They are sending me a shipping tag and the gun is going back for God knows how long. I am also told Paul is working on the floor and a man named Dick is doing his previous job of supervising repairs. I'm disgusted with Colt's performance and hope this is the exception rather than the rule.


Let me try to unerstand something - you sent it in, for work both warranty and custom work. They did an excellent job doing the customizing work but apparently didn't resolve the warranty problem. So now you have a return authorization and communicated to Colt your concerns? And someone has been demoted from a supervision job?

It sounds to me that Colt is trying to (1) do right for you and your gun and (2) they are taking some corrective action with some internal personnel issues. Sounds like to me that despite the time it took (and sometimes estimates are just that - estimates) Colt still wants to fix it for you.

[Peacemonger]

Yes, the custom work is as good as you could wish for.

The slide rubbing issue continues and the gun has been sent back for correction, again. There is a new issue with it flinging brass into my face.

I did not say Paul was demoted and it certainly had nothing to do with me or my gun. For all I know he has been promoted. I am simply saying that someone else, Dick, is doing his old job and he's now working on the floor.

I though folks might like to know that because a number of folks have worked with Paul in the past to resolve gun issues. I spoke with him in the past and found him to be a good guy.

I just find it amazing that Colt could do so well on the checkering and trigger job and mess up the slide fix so badly. They lowered and flared the ejection port on a poorly fitted slide.

Go figure?

The gun is a simple machine the company has been building since 1911. It is reasonable to expect them to get it right the first time when they build it.

OK then, it is reasonable to expect them to get it right the second time when they fix it. No?

OK, third time's the charm. We'll see.

[auto45]

I didn't know Colt checkered frames?

[Peacemonger]

Colt checked my front strap at 25 LPI for a charge of $160.

They wanted $100 for a 25 LPI checkered, flat, blue steel mainspring housing.

The frame was re-blued, no extra charge. They also knocked off the tiny points of the checkering. Karen told me they have a particular gunsmith who does this work. It does not appear to be CNC work and is every bit as nice as the work on my Brown Executive Carry.

I wish that guy did slides.

[VFRpilotJim]

I didn't know Colt checkered frames?

They do all kinds of custom work; if you get a catalog from them at 1800962COLT, there will be a price list in there for these services.

Jim

[Peacemonger]

I got a call from Karen this AM and Colt is going to replace the slide. I appreciate that; my kudos to Colt's staff.

I'll post final results when the weapon is returned and range tested.

[coltaholic]

If they keep working on it, their quality and customer will soon be as good as RIA.

[Peacemonger]

Actually, I'm finding it fascinating to read about these QC issues and about Colt's manufacturing history in general. I admit that it's not so much fun to have actually bought a QC deficient specimen.

I've actually thought about driving up there and seeing what goes on in the factory out of sheer curiosity. Its like an itch you can't scratch or a strange reality TV show. Weird and puzzling.

I'm long on theory and short on facts but my gut impression is one of a company trying to use old school manufacturing and technology with modern unionized labor. They don't seem to be on the technological bandwagon. The QC inspection process is deeply flawed, some say nonexistent.

They recently moved to CNC machining yet seem to lack sophisticated tracking and scheduling of guns. For example, they can't email you or provide a tracking number when returning a gun. The customer service people have only a rudimentary idea of where a repair is in the process. They literally "go and see" physically.

Take a look at their famously bad website and consider the technological implications.

Some folks want to see good Colt 9mm's. some want a Delta Elite. Every man has his wish list.

My wish list for Colt (I lke Colt) is that they fully embrace modern manufacturing and QC methods. (Except MIM, yuck) They also need modern management and IT systems to use it well.

For me the question boils down to will they survive using their current systems? I understand the M4 contract expires this year and I reckon that's the death of a major cash cow. I hope they have the deep pockets and intellectual capital necessary to make a transition.

It kinda reeks of Winchester's last days of building Walmart guns at a net loss.

[sgtlmj]

I sent my S70 in around the same time as you for numerous flaws. It took over 2 months to get back as they said that they were out of slides and had to manuf. more. I'm pleased with the work, as they also tightened the fit and did a trigger job at no cost.

I've heard about so many returns that Colt needs to either A) Get it right the first time, or B) Ship all new pistols with a prepaid return tag so you can send it back a couple times until they get it right.

[Peacemonger]

There's an old saying that if you don't have the time or money to do it right the first time how do you expect to do it over the second time.

Colt's warranty returns have to be hemorrhaging cash. It would be interesting to know the actual percentage of guns returned for valid warranty work. We tend to see a biased sample as those burned yell the loudest. Judging by my hold time when calling customer support the number is significant.

It has to be cheaper for Colt to do it right the first time, OR, they might have cynically decided they can sell crummier guns and get away with it. I figure its more likely to be an inability to control the manufacturing quality than a decision not to, simply because of the amount of competition.

Everyone but my dog is building 1911's now days and he's getting savvy. (needs thumbs).

So I see two fundamental, oppossed, questions :

1. Why can't Colt control the quality?
or
2. Do they deliberately ship substandard weapons?

[KPSquared]

There's an old saying that if you don't have the time or money to do it right the first time how do you expect to do it over the second time.

Colt's warranty returns have to be hemorrhaging cash. It would be interesting to know the actual percentage of guns returned for valid warranty work. We tend to see a biased sample as those burned yell the loudest. Judging by my hold time when calling customer support the number is significant.


As I was running today, still wondering if I'm going to send in my Combat Elite, why a company would not at least inspect a little more closely the pistols it sends out. The company would still save money if the same amount of man hours spent fixing the pistols sent in for warranty service were spent on a little more quality control in finished pistols and at points in the part/assembly process...because it wouldn't have to reimburse the shipping of the pistols.

I spent $969 for my Combat Elite. I don't know how much Colt sold it to my dealers distributer for but: $100 shipping both ways will take a lot out of whatever profit Colt made on the pistol. That's over 10 percent of what I paid for it.

[texagun]

....why a company would not at least inspect a little more closely the pistols it sends out. The company would still save money if the same amount of man hours spent fixing the pistols sent in for warranty service were spent on a little more quality control in finished pistols and at points in the part/assembly process...because it wouldn't have to reimburse the shipping of the pistols.

I spent $969 for my Combat Elite. I don't know how much Colt sold it to my dealers distributer for but: $100 shipping both ways will take a lot out of whatever profit Colt made on the pistol. That's over 10 percent of what I paid for it.

You are right of course. It would take an inspector all of 3 minutes to inspect a gun for known problems prior to shipment. I don't understand it.

[Hunter]

If they keep working on it, their quality and customer will soon be as good as RIA.
I hope you were being facetious.

[auto45]

I'm not sure most people would "recognize" all the irregularities to be honest.
Not sure how much is really functional, compared to cosmetics. But fully understand the "scrutiny Colt's get because of their high prices...consumers expect more.

I have one side of the dust cover rubbing on my 70's GC, crooked frames lines between my two Colt's, spring tunnel thickness much different, etc, etc.

These all the "things" Colt is known for and "more", and why they lost the majority of their business and companies like Kimber were created. They are the "Ford/GM" of the gun industry.

But, at least they are trying with new machinery, late and not enough, but it's some progress. I would expect them to get better and better.

[Slimbo]

I don't really understand all of colts QC issues either. I build aircraft parts for a living and have to self inspect and then have someone else inspect my work. If something isn't right it's not that hard to spot. After it leaves my hands it goes thru another inhouse quality inspection then our customer inspects it. We have a total of four buyoff's plus test before it ever leaves us. Maybe colt needs to add a few QC's to go over everyone elses work.

[Peacemonger]

Slimbo,

You make a very good point. Your product and Colt's have a strong similarity in that a failure can cost people their lives. It's not like Colt is building widgets or cooking pans.

There is another intangible cost beyond that of shipping and fixing poor quality guns. The highest cost is that of customer confidence and satisfaction. That cost is hard to recover.

In the past year or so I've had 5 friends ask advice on buying a gun, all new shooters. I've sent them out to buy Glock 19's or Glock 36's. The reason- reliable quality. I don't care for Glocks but they work. The two that expressed an interest in 1911's were warned off Colt and Kimber on the basis of my direct, personal, bad experience.

The same for my sister who wanted a "cute" S&W J frame with the internal lock. I had one fail and I will NEVER recommend a 'locked' S&W to someone I care about. Never.

What if one failed on them and cost them their lives after they trusted me to steer them straight? That is the true cost to Colt of poor quality control.

I wish I could have told them to pick out a Colt Commander or Series 70 and let's go shooting. Nope, they need a reliable gun and training to build confidence - not a lesson on gun fixing and inspection.

[TacDoc]

^^^ Sad, but TRUE!

[paul45]

I hope you were being facetious.Why?

As far as I see, RIA has a huge cult following.....good reliable products....friendly FACTORY reps that show a frequent presence.....and good customer service.

I was looking at a RIA compact at a local store and have to say I was quite impressed.....nice Novak style sights, beavertail......not bad.......

.........at 51% less than Colts latest Officer......419 vs. 850

Yes, I understand apples and oranges.........but perhaps it's time to pull up from the kool-aid trough. :D

I like Colts and have a bunch of them.....enough to be able to praise AND criticize.....without being told I have turned my back on them.........but I have pretty much have had enough of Colts apparently increasing multiple issues and lack of presence to the faithful. I have said before, I will continue to buy older Colts "1911"s and revolvers......but not new ones till Colts get their head out of the sand. :sleep:

Oh!! Sorry!! Rant over...... :eb:

[Peacemonger]

Lately I've decided I am too old to be concerned with marketing or history or hype, or 'cool factor' anymore.

A gun is what it is. That's all. It exists independently of history, opinion, cult status, manufacturer, etc ....

I recently bought and customized a Springer 9mm. I decided that it was a fine firearm, other than the ILS and guide rod which I promptly replaced. Mission Shoot Cheaper was accomplished.

Do I like Springfield? No, not particularly. Do I dislike them? No, not at all. I could care less about them. However, this *particular* gun I like quite a bit.

Paul45 has the right idea. Judge the gun in your hand. All else is marketing or other irrelevant hype. As old timers dwindle in the coming decades Colt's 'cult' status will not suffice to keep them alive.

"Daddy, what was the World War II?"
"Don't really know much about it son, came after the Revolutionary War, I think."

Colt can either build great guns or dwindle into the history books as another great, dead, company. They decide day by day .... one gun at a time.

[paul45]

I've actually thought about driving up there and seeing what goes on in the factory out of sheer curiosity.

Good idea!

[larry starling]

Colt can either build great guns or dwindle into the history books as another great, dead, company. They decide day by day .... one gun at a time.
Sadly I'm afraid that is what will happen. Colt will disappear if they don't get there act together!

There is several different threads going were people are having issues with their new Colt's! And it's not confined to just one model. Series 70's, Combat Elite's and recently Special Combat's.

I like Colts and have a bunch of them.....enough to be able to praise AND criticize.....without being told I have turned my back on them.........but I have pretty much have had enough of Colts apparently increasing multiple issues and lack of presence to the faithful. I have said before I will continue to buy older Colts "1911"s and revolvers......but not new ones till Colts get their head out of the sand.

Well said Paul I have to agree. And I must admit I have been doing the same thing. The last new Colt I bought was that XSE LW in 38 super last year. I won't be buying anymore until they fix the slide rubbing problem!

I'm not buying into the send it to Colt to fix it crowd! It shouldn't be defective when they ship from the factory! :butthead:

[coltaholic]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
I hope you were being facetious.

I was absolutely not being facetious. I read on here mostly good, responsive experiences that our members have with RIA. I could care less about the name on the gun, I just care if it shoots straight every time I pull the trigger.

I have 2 Colts, a CCO and a Special Combat Government--- and I shoot them on a regular basis, and carry the CCO almost daily. I have owned newer Colts and traded every one because they were too finicky and I was too short on patience to sort them out.

I also own 2 RIA's, a tactical, which I bought new, and an older stainless "Match" that I bought used. Bubba had installed a heavy firing spring resulting in numerous fail to fire's. I called the factory rep, Ivan, and he offered to fix it free and go thru the gun totally at no charge to me, but i put a new spring in and have had 500+ trouble free rounds since. I'm so happy and confident in this product and their customer service that I just ordered a new 6" longslide "Match".

Would I order a new Colt? Never! I love the name and the Mystique as much as the next guy, but until they begin to build a better product, I'm on the sidelines.

[myanof]

I sent my S70 in around the same time as you for numerous flaws. It took over 2 months to get back as they said that they were out of slides and had to manuf. more. I'm pleased with the work, as they also tightened the fit and did a trigger job at no cost.

I've heard about so many returns that Colt needs to either A) Get it right the first time, or B) Ship all new pistols with a prepaid return tag so you can send it back a couple times until they get it right.

I'm curious as to how you know they did a trigger job and tightened your slide? Did they put that info on your ticket?

[sgtlmj]

I'm curious as to how you know they did a trigger job and tightened your slide? Did they put that info on your ticket?

The invoice listed that they adjusted the trigger to "crisp, minimum safe pull," and "address other items listed in letter." I had noted the sloppy slide fit in my letter. This slide is as tight as any I've seen on a 1911.

They also included a nice 15yd test target.
http://www.sgtlmj.com/1970-6.jpg

[myanof]

Peacemonger, I was feeling pretty good until I read your story. If you will remember, you and I PMed about this issue before I sent my gun back to Colt. I sent my Series 70 reissue in to Colt on 12/4 with the same slide rubbing dustcover issue just like yours, but probably not quite as severe. Also when I was getting my Colt ready to ship I attempted to replace the stock grips when I noticed the bushings came out of the frame and I couldn't remove them without tearing them up so I let Colt deal with that issue as well.

I have talked to Karin and Travis on several occasions, and last week Travis told me he received the packing slip therefore I should have my gun in a couple of weeks. After reading about your situation, I'm worried again. All I can do is wait and see how it comes out. I'll let you all know what happens. I have to believe this lack of efficiency is killing any profits Colt my be making.

[myanof]

The invoice listed that they adjusted the trigger to "crisp, minimum safe pull," and "address other items listed in letter." I had noted the sloppy slide fit in my letter. This slide is as tight as any I've seen on a 1911.

They also included a nice 15yd test target.
http://www.sgtlmj.com/1970-6.jpg

Not bad shooting for 15yds. I'm curious to see what they do for me.

[sgtlmj]

Not bad shooting for 15yds. I'm curious to see what they do for me.

I was able to repeat that group on my own offhand at 15yds. This thing shoots so good, that it's almost boring just making the same hole bigger. :D

[vintage68]

Colt can either build great guns or dwindle into the history books as another great, dead, company. They decide day by day .... one gun at a time.

Gee, I wish I wrote that. To ride, shoot straight, and speak the truth.

[Hunter]

Comparing Colts to RIA is apples to oranges.
The quality of steel RIA is no where near the quality Colt uses. There is no arguing that.
Colt is having a few issues now, I understand that but they are implementing new equipment and software to keep the company on the cutting edge.
Like I said I know there are a few issues now but is that reason to give up on Colt?
Some of y'all have closed the doors to the factory and decided on a new favorite.
I am confident Colt will get the issues resolved and I have been in contact with the factory on some of these.
I for one am not going to give up on Colt so easily. Am I bias, yes. I have close friends that work there and I know what Colt is capable of. Baseball teams go decades without winning a World Series and still have fans but Colt has a few bad runs and their loyal fans have thrown them under the bus.
Maybe I am too optimistic and I may be the last one here who feels this way.

[TacDoc]

Comparing Colts to RIA is apples to oranges.
The quality of steel RIA is no where near the quality Colt uses. There is no arguing that.
Colt is having a few issues now, I understand that but they are implementing new equipment and software to keep the company on the cutting edge.
Like I said I know there are a few issues now but is that reason to give up on Colt?
Some of y'all have closed the doors to the factory and decided on a new favorite.
I am confident Colt will get the issues resolved and I have been in contact with the factory on some of these.
I for one am not going to give up on Colt so easily. Am I bias, yes. I have close friends that work there and I know what Colt is capable of. Baseball teams go decades without winning a World Series and still have fans but Colt has a few bad runs and their loyal fans have thrown them under the bus.
Maybe I am too optimistic and I may be the last one here who feels this way.

Hunter, you mind speaking about this a bit. You mean Colt is aware of the isssues discussed in this forum?

I have not lost my faith in Colt. I may be disappointed with my new Combat Elite and ship it back because I know Colt can make a better pistol that the one I received.

Little hijack to let you know I have not lost my faith in Colt. Next week I will receive this:

http://i41.tinypic.com/2i1ghlf.jpg

I hope there were not QC issues back in 1978. More pics and details to come, but in a different thread.

Anyway, whatever happens to Colt its their call. They can get their act together and build the quality 1911 they used to, or just they can sit and wait for the company slow death. Anything can happen, but the legend will never die... and I will continue to wear my holster with pride!

Just hope my pride represents the legendary company Colt was and currently is...

http://i43.tinypic.com/1fu6v7.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/2upz8eh.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/67m55j.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2m79bx1.jpg

[paul45]

The quality of steel RIA is no where near the quality Colt uses. There is no arguing that. Interesting thought. You seem to know something about this.......is there some metallurgical website or some source to confirm this? For no reason, it has me kinda interested. However, the quality of steel really wasn't being discussed earlier. RIA was used for an example of good product with apparent few issues, good customer service with a presence on the gun boards, and good price.

Like I said I know there are a few issues now but is that reason to give up on Colt?
Some of y'all have closed the doors to the factory and decided on a new favorite.I don't see where anyone said anything about giving up, closing the doors, or having a new favorite!

I am one who said I'm not buying a new Colt till these issues stop appearing with such frequency. Too bad, as Larry and I were all set to get a couple Combat Elites or Deltas. Tired of waiting on a Delta and really disappointed in the CE.

I have been a hard fan of Colts for many years and have earned warning/points on this forum for being over zealous at times in defending them.

I believe we are seeing some customer frustration with Colt......frustration that our favorite brand is faltering....making foolish mistakes. Mistakes that should never be allowed to leave the factory. That is why there are recycle bins.

I have been in contact with the factory on some of these.That is really good. You have been a good source of info. Colt has a loyal fan in you....they should capitalize on that fact. I have met you once, Hunter, so allow me to be blunt in this thought!

RIA, DW, Nighthawk, others......all have a presence on this board and others. Colt needs a FACTORY rep on the 2 major 1911 forums, not a fervent fan.....one who has some certification/authorization to make decisions and bring input back to the factory. Colt is severely dropping the ball on this since Mark Roberts bailed. One laptop, one factory employee with some clout, 2 hours a day can fix this glaring problem. A good number of people.....even gunshops think Colt doesn't sell to the public!

"Quality makes it a Colt"

Great slogan......let's get back to basics. Stop letting poor QC out the door, stop having the customer being the final inspector.

Finally, I like these discussions alot. I hope that Colt has the interest to follow our thoughts.

[auto45]

I may be the last one here who feels this way

No, I think this is a time that many realize Colt is making "real" efforts to improve their guns. They "put up" when they bought CNC machines IMO...instead of "talking" the last years...again IMHO.


I would use a "rep" sparingly on an Internet forum. Maybe some information, but carefully controlled...like Springfield for example.

You can easily get into "debates" with "faceless" customers/competitors, or a "kid" who has never even owned a gun.

[daveohno]

I for one am sorry to see so many issues all of a sudden. The only reason I'm not planning on buying any more Colts is because that person I live with seems to have figured out that those 2 pistols (MKIV and a 9MM Government) I had by the safe were recent purchases and had a fit! The one was out for cleaning and the other waiting for the locktite to dry on the loose bushing. I'm sure glad she didn't notice the new to me Hi Power and 9mm Commander. I'd still be applying ice to the knot on my head.

[cwo4uscgret]

seems to have figured out that those 2 pistols (MKIV and a 9MM Government) I had by the safe were recent purchases and had a fit! I'm sure glad she didn't notice the new to me Hi Power and 9mm Commander. I'd still be applying ice to the knot on my head.

I hate when that happens. I buy, sell, and collect custom knives as did my ex-wife. My ex was pretty savvy and "street smart". Whenever I bought one or two knives I had to buy an extra one - to give to her; and she instinctively knew when I came home with new knives. I miss some of those knives...

I live alone but am getting married in 2-1/2 more months. My fiancee is Colombian; she oohs and aahs when I show her a new gun purchase - but I suspect that will change soon...she's worth it - but I don't think I can afford to buy 3 guns at a time - 2 for me and 1 for her! But she did go to the range and shoot with me one day when she was here for a visit!

[OD*]

I hope there were not QC issues back in 1978.
There were, 1978 was the era of the famous *crooked* slide rollmarks as one of the issues. ;)
http://mysite.verizon.net/od45/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/1978Series70.jpg.w560h420.jpg

[TacDoc]

There were, 1978 was the era of the famous *crooked* slide rollmarks as one of the issues. ;)
http://mysite.verizon.net/od45/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/1978Series70.jpg.w560h420.jpg

WHAT??? Oh well, I can live with less than perfect roll marks, but can't stand the slide rubbing the dust cover...

On the other hand, everybody agrees the Series 70 was the best 1911 built by Colt ever, aint it true?

BTW OD*, you really are in Vatican City?

[OD*]

WHAT??? Oh well, I can live with less than perfect roll marks, but can't stand the slide rubbing the dust cover...
My "crooked" Colt is one of my favorites, beauty is as beauty does. ;)

On the other hand, everybody agrees the Series 70 was the best 1911 built by Colt ever, aint it true?
Most "hard core" Colt people believe the "pre-70" pistols were (I'm one of them ;)), commonly referred to as the "Commercial models." Like so;

http://mysite.verizon.net/od45/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/1950b.jpg

BTW OD*, you really are in Vatican City?
The Vatican City "location" started as a joke aimed at me by some friends. They know I’m Catholic, a 1911 freak, and a fan of the late Col. Cooper, who was occasionally referred to as "The Pope."

[Hunter]

Paul you make several good points.
I have asked Rich and Jeff to look into having a presence on this forum. I will bring it up again.
I sent an email to Marty (he runs the factory floor) about the Combat Elite and Series 70 issues early last week after a conversation with Rich about the same.
I agree they need to address these issues but I believe it is because of all the new changes at a one time.
I know their web site is horrible, they had the new (and long overdue) web site at SHOT, I hope it will be up very soon. I will mention that again.
I talked with Rich, they do watch this forum. I try to keep him in the loop on what is going on as well.
I promise they are working on it. Fast enough? I am not sure.
I realize most folks do not feel the way I do after all the problems but I am trying to be optimistic.
All I can do is let them know what goes on in the forum, express my opinion and concerns, and hope they act.
Time will tell but being Colt has been around this long I have a feeling they will continue to be a presence in the firearms market.
Once all the issues are out I will email a link to this thread to Rich and he can read them first hand.

[Rich-D]

The Vatican City "location" started as a joke aimed at me by some friends. They know I’m Catholic, a 1911 freak, and a fan of the late Col. Cooper, who was occasionally referred to as "The Pope."

And I thought that you were the Cardinal in Command of the Swiss Guard! :confused:

Rich

[OD*]

You caught me, Rich.
Here I am chewing-out one of my subordinates. ;)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Swiss_Guard.jpg

[paul45]

Thanks, Hunter! They ought to hire you!

[daveohno]

You caught me, Rich.
Here I am chewing-out one of my subordinates. ;)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Swiss_Guard.jpg

Nice outfit....... :D

Colt should get it together soon with the new machines. At least I hope they do, the natives are restless! We have many Colt supporters here and many of them are disappointed in the latest round of quality issues coming from Colt. I have several new Colt's over the last 3 years and all of them have been pretty good, ie, no real issues.

[Peacemonger]

Using computer controlled machining stations will reduce variations in the quality, no doubt about it. But it is a beginning - not a cure - for what ails Colt. After all, once upon a time Colt produced incredible firearms using human guided old school machinery.

The problem is in the company's culture - not the technology. Changing the internal culture of a company is much harder than changing production machinery.

As someone pointed out a simple visual inspection would take only minutes and prevent the vast majority of problem guns from getting out the door. It isn't happening.

The problem is how to change Colt back into a company that cares deeply about its product and its customers. They need more craftsman and less bean counters. What Colt needs is a great big dose of pride. Pride in their product and pride in their name.

I'd start by altering the build process so that each person who worked on a gun signed off on that particular gun. Slide man would check and initial his slide install. Sight guy would check and then sign off on the sights. Each gun should have a digital record leading straight back to each responsible worker. Novel thought, accountability.

And thse workers should be held responsible - and given the absolute right to reject bad components on the assembly line.

Reward the good ones. Fire the bad ones; using customer return records to sort them out. The UAW which infests Colt would just *love* this idea.

It would be a beginning.

[egumpher]

The problem is how to change Colt back into a company that cares deeply about its product and its customers. They need more craftsman and less bean counters. What Colt needs is a great big dose of pride. Pride in their product and pride in their name.


Bull’s-eye......as an engineer I get resistance ALL the time when I find a better way to do something. I always get the same answer, "No, that will cost money”, even if there is a short return on investment. Corporate American wants to keep everything the way it is or outsource as much as possible and still to turn a profit. They might as well be selling tomatoes on a corner stand.

Rgds
Eric
I never stop trying though..

[WhoaCowboy]

Thanks from me also Hunter..I truly hope the reps at Colt start listening to their extremely loyal and devoted customers...reading threads like this is IMPERATIVE. When I started buying and collecting Colt's revolvers in the 70's and 80's and then the 90's, we just did not have the ability to communicate with other fellow owners except maybe at the range,the gunshop or eventually the CCA and its Rampant Colt. Today the world is totally different in so many ways ( good and bad). But the information revolution/explosion and its ability for its almost instantaneus dissemination must be addressed by Colt's. Look how it benefits us

[Hunter]

They need more craftsman and less bean counters. What Colt needs is a great big dose of pride. Pride in their product and pride in their name.

Yes but there in lies the problem.
The craftsmen are getting harder and harder to come by.
Today's generation is not interested in learning the trade of skilled gunsmithing.
All the folks currently at Colt hand building the pistols are of an older generation. They are not easily replaced.
Colt's only option was to use technology to try and replace the craftsmen and craftswomen.
Colt did not go to CNC machinery to save money but to stay in the business.

[egumpher]

Colt did not go to CNC machinery to save money but to stay in the business.

Thank you for the information.

They can pull it off if they document why things work for all prosperity in a design manual (highly proprietary and guarded) and keep a lessons learned as an appendix. Many top notch aerospace companies did this because the lost all of their "tribal knowledge" but still needed to succeed.

Rgds
Eric

[Hunter]

Thank you for the information.

They can pull it off if they document why things work for all prosperity in a design manual (highly proprietary and guarded) and keep a lessons learned as an appendix. Many top notch aerospace companies did this because the lost all of their "tribal knowledge" but still needed to succeed.

Rgds
Eric
I agree totally. I think they are going through a "lessons learned" stage right now.
When they square away the problems and have noted the causes I believe all will be as it was.
I am optimistic.

[Nathan]

. . .It would take an inspector all of 3 minutes to inspect a gun for known problems prior to shipment. I don't understand it.

In manufacturing 3 minutes and 20 rounds is a lot. In my plant, 3 full minutes of work would take 16 new people hired for both lines and both shifts. I can't guess what 20 rounds per gun would cost. . .On the other hand, to moke sure a gun is made right can be done without those 16 people. It takes quality tooling, quality inspection and good tool maintenance. I would guess something like this would come from a lot(production run) of bad slides not properly inspected. QC is about quality in the hearts and minds of the employees more than the systems used. Check fixtures and inspection requirements help also.

[egumpher]

In manufacturing 3 minutes and 20 rounds is a lot. In my plant, 3 full minutes of work would take 16 new people hired for both lines and both shifts. I can't guess what 20 rounds per gun would cost. . .On the other hand, to moke sure a gun is made right can be done without those 16 people. It takes quality tooling, quality inspection and good tool maintenance. I would guess something like this would come from a lot(production run) of bad slides not properly inspected. QC is about quality in the hearts and minds of the employees more than the systems used. Check fixtures and inspection requirements help also.

I totally agree but we need to consider the price of rework and customer loyally too. Everything is a balance. I always lean more towards doing it right the first time. Can you say Toyota? ( I had an engineering class that studied why their products have the best quality on planet earth...Remember that Toyota, Lexus and Scion are all the same company)

Rgds
Eric

[Peacemonger]

I think the QC needs to be shared by ALL workers. By holding each worker ultimately accountable for their work and allowing each worker to reject a part (or a gun) it could be accomplished cheaply.

A final QC inspector need only pull a statistically significant random sample of weapons for a final check.

QC is everyone''s job and the inspector finding a bad gun should cause severe grief on the assembly line. Finding a bad gun should be a *really* BAD THING if it makes it all the way to the QC inspector.

[egumpher]

I think the QC needs to be shared by ALL workers. By holding each worker ultimately accountable for their work and allowing each worker to reject a part (or a gun) it could be accomplished cheaply.

A final QC inspector need only pull a statistically significant random sample of weapons for a final check.


But this will only work if you are working in a highly controlled manufacturing process with very low defects. Many people devote their careers to a six sigma manufacturing processes to control these processes.

The thing is that even the best and talented employees don't even know that they are making substandard parts until quality gets involved or the customer compains. This is why total quality control is so popular in industry. Unfortunately the manufacturing volumes in pistols probably don’t warrant the time and money for this level of control.

Rgds
Eric

[DV52]

Quality or lack thereof speaks for itself,and it permeates throughout the entire team.they all know it.I was in the market for a 1911 a year ago.I bought a commander,a workingmans gun all around form and function,range and carry.mine has been awsome.Having said that I along with paul got warnigs ,but if total commitment is not on the agenda sales will slump.I am a working man,my fiance"the management" is a frugal gal,who is very practical,If the real nice colts are finnicky,that needs to change.

[Rich-D]

You caught me, Rich.
Here I am chewing-out one of my subordinates. ;)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Swiss_Guard.jpg


FUNNY! :D

Rich

[vashooter]

Paul you make several good points.
I have asked Rich and Jeff to look into having a presence on this forum. I will bring it up again.
I sent an email to Marty (he runs the factory floor) about the Combat Elite and Series 70 issues early last week after a conversation with Rich about the same.
I agree they need to address these issues but I believe it is because of all the new changes at a one time.
I know their web site is horrible, they had the new (and long overdue) web site at SHOT, I hope it will be up very soon. I will mention that again.
I talked with Rich, they do watch this forum. I try to keep him in the loop on what is going on as well.
I promise they are working on it. Fast enough? I am not sure.
I realize most folks do not feel the way I do after all the problems but I am trying to be optimistic.
All I can do is let them know what goes on in the forum, express my opinion and concerns, and hope they act.
Time will tell but being Colt has been around this long I have a feeling they will continue to be a presence in the firearms market.
Once all the issues are out I will email a link to this thread to Rich and he can read them first hand.
Can you tell them a guy who makes good "union " beer that you know has a pistol that needs "special attention" and he is a REAL NICE person :D FLoyd

[Peacemonger]

I am dredging up this old thread from February to report on the final outcome as promised. As the OP I related sending my gun back a second time for warranty service on the dreaded slide rub.

FedX dropped off the pistol an hour ago. Colt replaced the slide and did a beautiful job. The slide is centered and polished nicely. It is perfectly fitted, feels like an Ed Brown. The slide is tight but not too tight, rolls like its on ball bearings.

The slide rub is gone. The accompanying test target is one ragged hole in the center of the target.

I am completely satisfied. More than satisfied. It is happy dance time.

I also had Colt install a long, no hole black trigger, a black commander hammer, tool steel sear, trigger job, 25 LPI checkering on the front strap, steel mainspring housing (checkered 25 LPI), and lower and flare the ejection port.

The custom work was inexpensive as such things go and perfectly executed.

Lastly, if you're one of those afflicted with the slide rub fiasco take heart. It took 6 months and two tries but Colt did honor the warranty; they did it right, and they produced a fine 1911.

I started out with a lousy gun with poor fitting and no evident quality control.
I have in my hand a beautiful, finely fitted, semi custom which is all Colt.

Off to the range. I'll post photos when I can dig out the camera.

Colt did right by me.

[Mhanis]

I'll post photos when I can dig out the camera.

Colt did right by me.



Start digging.....I want to see pictures!!!!

[myanof]

Congratulations on your fix. I need to see those pictures also.

[KPSquared]

I went to my local store yesterday to look at a Series 70 SS Repro they've had there for a while, and if it passed my inspection I was going to pick it up...but I came home without it. The slide was definately not centered in the frame...sort of like one that was shown here before...slide almost touching the dustcover on one side and a big gap on the other side. I really wanted that pistol but it was just too obvious. Otherwise it looked good...but what was wrong with it was IMO a fatal flaw. $859 before taxes.

[coltcmdr1980]

I have two Series 70 repros and, other than tweaking the extractors, they shoot perfectly. They are very accurate and are among my favorite pistols. Nothing is perfect. I have carried firearms for over 20 years professionally and have seen bad Glocks, Sigs, S&Ws etc. Its unfortunate but it does happen.

Colts are my favorites and I will always be loyal to them - they set the standard many years ago and, like life, they aren't perfect but then again who/what is?

Regards and stay safe.

[WhoaCowboy]

I am dredging up this old thread from February to report on the final outcome as promised. As the OP I related sending my gun back a second time for warranty service on the dreaded slide rub.

FedX dropped off the pistol an hour ago. Colt replaced the slide and did a beautiful job. The slide is centered and polished nicely. It is perfectly fitted, feels like an Ed Brown. The slide is tight but not too tight, rolls like its on ball bearings.

The slide rub is gone. The accompanying test target is one ragged hole in the center of the target.

I am completely satisfied. More than satisfied. It is happy dance time.

I also had Colt install a long, no hole black trigger, a black commander hammer, tool steel sear, trigger job, 25 LPI checkering on the front strap, steel mainspring housing (checkered 25 LPI), and lower and flare the ejection port.

The custom work was inexpensive as such things go and perfectly executed.

Lastly, if you're one of those afflicted with the slide rub fiasco take heart. It took 6 months and two tries but Colt did honor the warranty; they did it right, and they produced a fine 1911.

I started out with a lousy gun with poor fitting and no evident quality control.
I have in my hand a beautiful, finely fitted, semi custom which is all Colt.

Off to the range. I'll post photos when I can dig out the camera.

Colt did right by me.

Seems like the wait was well worth it. I wonder if the custom shop handled it all. Best of luck. :appld:

[fdreano]

Which is why I have a REAL Series 70 (circa 1972)...wonderful and reliable shooter...

[deuce14]

Why?

As far as I see, RIA has a huge cult following.....good reliable products....friendly FACTORY reps that show a frequent presence.....and good customer service.

I was looking at a RIA compact at a local store and have to say I was quite impressed.....nice Novak style sights, beavertail......not bad.......

.........at 51% less than Colts latest Officer......419 vs. 850

Yes, I understand apples and oranges.........but perhaps it's time to pull up from the kool-aid trough. :D

I like Colts and have a bunch of them.....enough to be able to praise AND criticize.....without being told I have turned my back on them.........but I have pretty much have had enough of Colts apparently increasing multiple issues and lack of presence to the faithful. I have said before, I will continue to buy older Colts "1911"s and revolvers......but not new ones till Colts get their head out of the sand. :sleep:

Oh!! Sorry!! Rant over...... :eb:

Thanks for the honesty you "old crank"! ;)

[daveohno]

ICan you say Toyota? ( I had an engineering class that studied why their products have the best quality on planet earth...Remember that Toyota, Lexus and Scion are all the same company)

Rgds
Eric

I can say Buick. Buick has been beating all the imports for several years now regarding quality. People buy what they buy. They get an idea what is best and nothing will change their minds. My brother bought only Nissans for many years and the last car he bought was a Porche. He always wanted one. I have been buying mostly Chrysler cars since Iacocca saved them in the late 70's.

[terabyte]

:confused:

Pray your pistol don't come back repaired with a "Nicky New Idiot Scratch" as mine did from the repair dept - still not back in my hands & I am told they may be replacing the frame over it :confused:

I would think investors would be pushing for better quality control, the profit loss I see reading post after post is not good :nono:

[Colt45Va]

In not trying to hi-jack this thread, how do the AR-15/16's produced by COLT stack up? I'm a member of 2 AR sites and don't read anywhere near this much over QC/QA issues. COLT is leader of high end in AR's and I get hammered for my low end DPMS that it won't hold up like a COLT????? What are you hearing about the AR's as I'd love 1 to go along with my series 80 COLT 1911.

The DPMS must run along the lines of RIA.

Colt45va

[daveohno]

In not trying to hi-jack this thread, how do the AR-15/16's produced by COLT stack up? I'm a member of 2 AR sites and don't read anywhere near this much over QC/QA issues. COLT is leader of high end in AR's and I get hammered for my low end DPMS that it won't hold up like a COLT????? What are you hearing about the AR's as I'd love 1 to go along with my series 80 COLT 1911.

The DPMS must run along the lines of RIA.

Colt45va

Colt is the leader in AR's. When they compare themselves to the best AR on the market, the AR they are talking about is made by Colt. OD* has all the details as to why Colt is the better choice when considering AR type rifles.

I have several Colt pistols that were purchased new in the last 3 years and mine are all just fine.

[Colt45Va]

Colt is the leader in AR's. When they compare themselves to the best AR on the market, the AR they are talking about is made by Colt. OD* has all the details as to why Colt is the better choice when considering AR type rifles.

I have several Colt pistols that were purchased new in the last 3 years and mine are all just fine.

Daveohno, I hear you,so WHY ALL THE ISSUES WITH THE PISTOLS??? My DPMS is running like a Swiss watch but I want a MN PONY 20" AR + a 5"1911.

[OD*]

Daveohno, I hear you,so WHY ALL THE ISSUES WITH THE PISTOLS??? My DPMS is running like a Swiss watch but I want a MN PONY 20" AR + a 5"1911.
Some of it maybe due to the fact that the ARs and Colt pistols and revolvers are made by two different entities, Colt Defense LLC and Colt's Manufacturing Company LLC. One is made to "Colt's" specifications and the other is made to the US Government's specifications.

[Mick_In_Texas]

:confused:
Pray your pistol don't come back repaired with a "Nicky New Idiot Scratch" as mine did from the repair dept - still not back in my hands & I am told they may be replacing the frame over it :confused:
I would think investors would be pushing for better quality control, the profit loss I see reading post after post is not good :nono:

I understand the loyal Colt fans: frankly, I'm partial to the name and the history. On the other hand... I've got an S70 Repro that was NON functional NIB. I mean totally. I paid dearly for it, more than any handgun I've ever bought, though in fairness, four were bought in the mid-80s, the others, from 1999 to last year (the S70 Repro).

I want to be fair here: I definitely had to send my 70 back to the factory. Yes, it took a month and a half, and I was surprised that it didn't take any longer than that. Colt had to re-machine the ejection port; which altered the finish on the slide (it's stainless, so really doesn't matter that much), whoever put it back together did scratch the frame with the slide stop (lightly, but I haven't scratched a frame since my first owned 1911, a Springer), it was dirty, and it didn't work still: it ejected fine, IF you could get it to feed right; it wouldn't go into full battery loading off a full magazine as is proper by releasing the slide on a mag. I had to push it forward, which was done gingerly. It wouldn't lock open on an empty magazine. However, after that second trip to the range, the last two, for some reason... it's functioned 100%, 76 rounds, 26 MagTech, 50 PMC Bronze. Yesterday, seven different magazines: the original two, a blued from my O1991, three SAs, and a Wilson Combat with rounded follower.

The prob is, I don't fully trust it--like I do both Springers, my RIA (which had a minor problem, but which was fixed in 7 business days and has never been anything but 100% feeding, firing, ejecting), and three of my SIX Colts (including an M1911, which works fine, but won't be USED much, to say the least). My O1991 doesn't shoot straight, but functions fine, as far as I know. My original Mk IV Government Mod/Series 70 has major ejection issues, and it was made in 1977 (bought it used, though). While "apples and oranges" has come up, I'll never fire 10000 rounds through any of my 9 1911s. I've got a Taurus PT92AF, no break in, a Ruger GP100, had a P90 (no break in), two Berettas (Italian, not U.S.), 100% from first round, a Smith 686 (granted, a revolver), an AMT OMC .380 ACP backup, no break in, four Mossberg shotguns (only one owned now), perfect, and two Springer 1911s, the Mil-Spec of which is my primary carry because it's had close to 800 through it, many magazines, with nary a glitch EVER. My O1911 hasn't been shot much--and I've heard of probs with those when they were being made--but mine has been excellent. My Super 38 Govt Model has been excellent.

A grip screw bushing fell out of my O1991 when I was preparing it for sale... didn't sell, even though it's had less than 100 rounds through it--although I was honest that it needed sight work, as have three other folks's that I know of, including the dealer I bought it from. A Parked Mil SA had a grip screw bushing come loose, but SA got me one in less than a week. Brand loyalty is fine, and I know Colt's and JMB's histories--I own four books on them... But it IS a bit of a concern when Colt has SO many problems with QC. My S70 should NEVER have gotten out of the factory like it came initially. Of ANY factory. Wouldn't feed, with its own magazines, wouldn't eject, it was a hazard to me and everyone on the range, trying to clear LIVE jams with the slide half-locked on them, and another live one trying to jam under the one halfway in the chamber. Scary stuff, which I've NEVER experienced. Until I got the ol' 1977 Mk IV.

RIAs have proven in MY case to be GREAT guns. So have my SAs. I mean, functionally, EXCELLENT. I trust my Mil-Spec, as well as my GI45, FULLY. My Mil has been cleaned many a time... fired more rounds than any THREE of my other guns combined, qualified me for another renewal on my CHL, has been carried many miles and it's been modified three times (not counting the stocks): MSHs. It's NEVER failed in any way. My Ruger P90 NEVER failed in any way: I was stupid enough to take my initial CHL shooting qualification without ever having fired the gun OR the .45 ACP, and it functioned flawlessly, and I obviously passed back in 2000... YES: I want a Colt as a carry gun. I've faced down three criminals in my life with firearms, and I will guarantee you the roll marks don't matter if you need to shoot to defend yourself or your family. Been there, done that. Didn't like it, don't want to EVER be there again if I live to be 100. Period. Brands: Beretta, Mossberg, Beretta. But had I needed to fire, I knew they worked.

I'm real happy my S70 SEEMS to be worked in, now... but I'm NOT sure. My SA Mil didn't have to be worked in. Neither did my GI. I TRUST my Super 38 Colt, though, and my O1911: just don't want to carry the O1911, because the outsource finish isn't made to carry, and I don't like the mil-spec sights for pressure response... but DO carry my Super. It WORKS. 100%. I won't carry my S70 Repro until I have the time and money to put 100-200 rounds more through her. The jury's still out on the Mk IV. The O1991... I don't think I should have to have a basically new gun gunsmithed to get it to hit POA, but if I keep it, that's what will have to happen: it's the gun, it's not me.

I think that's what the point is: Colt's a good name, and they can even from my own experience build 'em right... about 50% of the time. But compared to what they cost, these apples, to my oranges, my Springers, RIA, Taurus, Berettas, Smith, and AMT... that's the devil in the details. First Lady is 81 years old, and is impeccable in function, after going through a war (at least one, in WWI), and she IS a Colt. I was real lucky on my O1911 Reproduction: I got one of the good ones. That one, I trust. My Super, excellent, although I don't favor the GOOD caliber except on the roads... but that's only HALF of my Colts, and First Lady doesn't count because SHE is the ONLY "safe queen" I have. But my frustration level has never been higher on any firearm... I understand about craftsmen and craftswomen... and "progress" sometimes really isn't as far as quality... but the thing is, had I only three 1911s, rather than 9, they'd be: M1911 First Lady, Mil-Spec, and RIA. And only two of 'em would ever be carried and shot. Sorry.

I HOPE my S70 has worked through whatever was ailing it: I'd love to carry it... but I don't carry any gun I don't trust, and just yet, it hasn't earned my trust. Others in the past and present have. But, granted, two of them are Colts. I just so wish, for the investment--I'll likely NEVER have a Kimber, Ed Brown, Wilson, Nighthawk, and maybe don't want one, as I like mine simple, functional, working--the QC was more consistent. Colt would sure save in the long run... I cannot tell y'all how thankful I was when I got my FIRST Colt, First Lady, and my second, the O1911 Repro... my third, Super 38... and they are all GREAT. Then, the O1991... and the issues started, and have continued. That is a shame, because I used to think I'd never have a COLT...

I want to see them prosper... but I know a lot of the S70s have been defective (see other threads on them here). I'm STARTING to get pleased with mine, although I don't really believe a machine "fixes itself"... I hope I don't have to send mine back again. Maybe not. We'll see. With all due respect to those who favor ANY make... My SA and Ruger ran circles around several brands years ago, Sig, Auto Ordinance, Thompson, Glock... "How come it is, you're the only one out here who always has guns that WORK?"... but, there you go. I try to make good choices.

So. Interesting thread, and close to my heart. My S70 is laid out for a thorough cleaning and lubing... She MAY be alright. I just don't, rightfully and understandably, have the confidence in her as I do my Mossberg, Taurus, Springer, RIA, Super, GI, O1911, and GP100. None have EVER had a problem. She HAS. Serious ones. We'll see. I hope some Colt's reps get active on the forums again.

But I will say, I don't "ride for the brand"; I ride for "what works". I'd love to add Colt's Patent Fireams Manufacturing Company to my list, but they just haven't earned it for what my financial outlay has been. That's sad. I have to earn my respect EVERY DAY at work, in the environment I'm in right now, and I DO. And darned well. Colt should think hard about THAT. Name don't matter, FUNCTION does.

Y'all take care and be safe.
Mick

[wetidlerjr]

My Colts have been very little trouble mechanically and only one had real cosmetic issues which I took care of myself. It's too bad others haven't had the same experience as me but one should keep in mind that bad news is almost always more interesting and dramatic than good news as seen daily on TV and the web. It's just an often frustrating fact of life. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/wetidlerjr/Smilies/confused-smiley-013.gif

Don't worry; be happy ! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/wetidlerjr/Smilies/BOOGIE_MAN.gif

[OD*]

Gotta agree with you Bill, out of the many Colt's I have owned over the years, the percentage of those with any kind of problems would be minuscule.

[Mick_In_Texas]

Gotta agree with you Bill, out of the many Colt's I have owned over the years, the percentage of those with any kind of problems would be minuscule.

... is when a person can't afford MANY firearms. Or only has one. As OD* says, out of "many", only a "miniscule/percentage" had any kind of problems. That's fine. IF you have MANY.

With my Repro S70... let's see... it was my LAST one out of 10 purchases of 1911s. I think about what if it had been my FIRST, and especially, my ONLY? With my experience with other brands as a consideration: my Berettas (Italian imports, not made in the U.S.) were impeccable; my Smith 686 was impeccable, my AMT (for an ex-wife), impeccable, my Mossbergs (purchased four, own 1 currently), impeccable, two Rugers, impeccable (one revolver, still owned, one pistol, sold and I kick myself for it, too), two Springers, impeccable, two RIAs, impeccable (with the trip to the factory for mine, but never affected function at all), and an SKS Chinese rifle, impeccable (used). My Bushmaster, untried. It needed tweaking, but NOT for function. It functions fine. First Lady was my first Colt: impeccable at 81, but like I'm going to shoot HER that much--NOT, or carry her, NOT. My WWI Repro was my second, impeccable. Carried once or twice, 'cause I trust IT. My Super 38 Govt Model, impeccable, often carried on the road because I trust it. My O1991--functions well, doesn't shoot straight, and as I say, have had three others say the same (why should it not, when my Springers, RIAs, and four other Colts, shoot straight?). My S70, totally non-functional when I got it. Totally. Not possible to fire it safely. My Mk IV Govt Model/Ser 70, has probs, too. So: 6 Colts for ME, personally, one 81 years old... and currently 50%. Jury out on S70 Repro, swing batter on that one.

50% compared to 100% on other brands, ain't too good--unless yes, you have SEVERAL. I had a 1911 to qualify with and that I carry (Springer, RIA, Colt Super 38), and defend myself with if needed. Some folks do not have several, for many reasons. I heard a LOT of complaints about the O1911 WWI Reproduction, HERE, yet mine is beautiful, functional, no probs. Obviously folks are having many probs with the O model Series 70/Mk IV Govt Repros; I think the concern is the percentage of production that has probs. I've heard of those WWI Repro O1911s (not much about the O1918 WWI Repros), that had the slide/frame misalignment/machining... just serious QC failures on those, for sure. And they were LIMITED. Some law-abiding folks can't have all the firearms I have, I've been lucky and sacrificed: it's like my work buddy's Colt Mk IV Government Model/S70 I fell in love with--his has been abused and neglected, but it's 100% (from 1972), mine, from '77, has SERIOUS issues. That's his ONLY handgun. Has been for over 30 years. If it had been mine, he'd have gotten rid of it and got another one. I'd REALLY be frustrated if my S70 was my ONLY handgun! If it was my only one, I'd NEVER buy another Colt. Sorry, but true: too much experience with their competitors. That's part of what I think folks here are getting at, not "bad news", just factual experience with some of the QC issues at Colt. As it is, like OD* and Hunter and others, I have GOOD Colts that were right from the box.

They're just not consistently so. That's what hurts them. They're the most expensive guns I own, quite frankly, and you'd think the standard would be higher. My Mil-Spec SA is amazingly reliable, and always has been. So is my GI45. Two-thirds the price. My RIA has been 100%, despite the need for a tweak, and Armscor sure turned it around faster (6 times as fast) than CMC did on my S70, and it was... one-fourth the price of ANY of my Colts. That's what folks are talking about. I like FUNCTION, RELIABILITY, not ROLL MARKS/BRAND--'cause I've had to brandish three times. FUNCTION AND RELIABILITY are ALL that matters defensively. Period. Been there, done that, hated it, but if I had had to fire... I want the gun to FIRE. It's your LIFE or your wife's life, or both. I mean it.

Don't get me wrong: I LOVE the Colt name, and history. But my impression as a five-time customer on new is they don't really CARE. My experience with "Travis" was lackadaisical--they scratched a BRAND NEW GUN, and they didn't clean or lube it after they did whatever they did. The machining didn't really ruin the finish, but some folks wouldn't like it, as it should've been done right the FIRST time. My S70 should NEVER have left the factory, to be honest: it wasn't made right (slide). I LOVE the fact that Colt was the original manufacturer of the 1911 platform. I LOVE my M1911, my WWI Repro, my Super 38. But my O1991, I'll have to PAY to get it to sight straight up (it's the sights, not me, I can shoot a 1911 and proved it March 15th); I don't know what the status is of my S70 until I rag on it a little more, and the MK IV S70, who knows? That is the problem folks are having. A person should be able to expect a gun at $900-$1000 to at least function reliably out of the box... especially if it's their ONLY ONE.

There's a reason I drive a Toyota Tundra, too, instead of a Chevy C1500 or Dodge RAM 1500: those folks didn't want my business in June of 2005. Even though I had a Chevy car. And had a long history with GM/GMC. That Tundra, like my dad's, also a former GMC guy, WORKS. Impeccably. And I'm not made of money. My Mil-Spec was my first, and that thing has REALLY worked. That's the reason I carry it, and not the S70 Repro. I'm not going to carry anything that won't work. Because if you carry, there's a reason. That you hope you never have.

I hope Colt DOES address some of their issues. I love the Colts I have that work, and YES, I WANT to have a Colt that I can carry. It's just... like Harley Davidson in the 80's: they almost lost it, after AMF got through with them. Fortunately they recovered. If I ever get another ride, it will be a Harley: they straightened up. Colt needs to tweak a little. We all can only go on our own experiences. These are mine.

Y'all all take care and be safe.
Mick

[wetidlerjr]

...As OD* says, out of "many", only a "miniscule/percentage" had any kind of problems. That's fine. IF you have MANY...Colt needs to tweak a little. We all can only go on our own experiences. These are mine.

Y'all all take care and be safe.
Mick

Well then, after reading your posts in this thread and others, all I can suggest is that you sell what Colts you have and not buy anymore. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/wetidlerjr/Smilies/confused-smiley-013.gif

[Mick_In_Texas]

Well then, after reading your posts in this thread and others, all I can suggest is that you sell what Colts you have and not buy anymore. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/wetidlerjr/Smilies/confused-smiley-013.gif

I see your point from a lot of what I've stated; on the other hand, I have said I do like Colt Manufacturing Company. The only one I've attempted to sell, was the O1991, just before my usual FFL declined to renew his FFL. It didn't sell, even though I saw 4 folks interested in it before I ever left the store when I took it there.

I likely won't buy anymore under the current situation. Not the only one who's had a lot of probs with certain models, as you are aware... for me, the problems were just a real shock relative to other brands and platforms over the years... At the same time, I've been open to learning some new stuff, as with the original Mk IV Govt Model/S70 and its odd ejection issue--that is, extractor tuning. I shouldn't have to, but one, would be a good thing to know, and two, many do and from you folks here, it may be that it's a minor thing causing the issue. Needs more firing.

I'm honest either way: yes, some of theirs have problems, well-documented here by many more folks than me; on the other hand, I respect their name and history (knowing it pretty well, not just on 1911 semi-automatic pistols), and really would like to see them survive and prosper in a market where there's a lot of competition (so far). Even the military bought Singers, UMCs, others, on WD/DOD contracts when CPFAMC/CMC couldn't keep up with war demand. Conversely, during a break in my CHL class in March, I looked at Taurus 1911s. As good as my PT92AF is and always has been, I wouldn't get a Taurus 1911 simply because I don't like the "modernization"--skeletonized trigger, modified hammer, grip safety, whatever, on the standard model I saw. Kimbers, Nighthawks, Wilson Combats, Ed Browns, have their supporters and market share, and I'm sure they're great guns; I like basic ones, and even could I afford them, I wouldn't really be interested, I think.

I'll keep at least 5 of my 6 Ponies, for sure... and likely, now, the O1991. I'll bow out, as really I'm just repeating what many are saying. I guess I thought if Colt got involved in the forums again after Mark went to USFA or whatever that company is in Florida, maybe they'd see that most of us who have probs with the Colts STILL support them and do know who the original mfgr of our beloved platform was. Hunter's one of those who's had good luck with his individual pieces, but also one of the O1991 owners who had to have the front sight tweaked.

If I was anti-Colt, I wouldn't admit that half of mine were fine out of the box, counting one that is 81 years old and from a whole 'nother world (military contract) and definitely used in the hardest possible way: war... and my O1911 is excellent (not the experience of all). I'm so anxious to get my S70 Repro working because I WOULD love to carry a Colt! And as it stands, it may be working now. Can't tell. Just a hard road getting to that point with it, if it in fact is at that point.

The discussion doesn't need my input anyway: there's plenty from both points of view here. But do know I have NOT given up on the Repro: it's just been... challenging... I reckon my posts are too long, anyway; but I so love this place and you folks here, regardless of y'all's experience one way or the other. It's just the BEST forum (yep, there are some others, but John's got the "market" sewed up in my opinion, basically).

Y'all all take care and be safe.
Mick

[danamclendon]

I have one Colt, also a Series 70 reproduction. It's been 100% reliable. In fact, I carried it today. Before I bought it, I took it apart, keeping in mind the many issues that have been raised on this and other forums, and to the extent I could during a field strip, ruled out those problems. Like many, I really wanted a Colt for the sake of having a Colt. My Colt was my third 1911 (Kimber and Nighthawk being the first two). I don't consider myself a "collector" but I do have many firearms. I got to the point that I looked in my safe and realized, "something is missing" and it was obvious what it was. The time came for me to get the classic, and I did and I'm glad.

[daveohno]

Mick, you bought the 1991 new in the box? If so, box it up and have Colt fix it's sights.

[Mick_In_Texas]

Mick, you bought the 1991 new in the box? If so, box it up and have Colt fix it's sights.

I've thought about this, too. Your helpful advice is taken seriously. Considered the possibility it was ME, but, with other 1911s, I shoot dead on with compensation of "uncorrected" or "glasses" eyes. This one shoots consistently, either way, low and left, same as three or four other folks, here, not here. Have thought about "making" CMC "fix" this. Think I will, now.

Thank you, sir. Take care, be safe.
Mick.

[Mick_In_Texas]

I got to the point that I looked in my safe and realized, "something is missing" and it was obvious what it was. The time came for me to get the classic, and I did and I'm glad.

I fell in love with the platform on a buddy's original Mk IV Govt Mod/S70. Bought the Repro in ss because I never thought I'd have one of those originals. Now, have it and an original. As well as the real ORIGINAL, an M1911 from mid- to late-1918. Love the S70 slides w/o the firing pin block! All the way back to 1911... take care, be safe. Mick.