Original 1911 holsters

[maithunin]

Hi all - am new to the forum. I am the owner of an original Colt 1911, serial No. 178974. Bought it in 1966 from my professor for $25 (it was issued to his father in WWI, who was in the band and fired it once, took it with him when he was discharged, and put it in a shoebox - the prof couldn't afford ammo and wanted to get rid of it after his father died). I detail stripped it and cleaned it and fired some ball ammo in the desert (I had used a 1911A1 mdoifed for .22 while on the Navy ROTC pistol team in college) and have fired a few more rounds thru it over the years just to keep my eye accurate (it's in the house for self defense). It's always cleaned and oiled after firing. I'm assuming everything on it is original, as it was only fired once before I got it.

My question is with the holster that came with it. I assume that it is the holster that was issued with it, but haven't been able to locate a good web site to compare original holsters with what I have. I'd post a picture, but I'm somewhat of a luddite and don't own a digital camera. Does anyone know of a good web site that offers pictures of the holsters that were issued along with the 1911's in WWI?

After reading some of the threads here, I know that the recommendation for the pistol would be to stop using it, etc., but I'm not a collector (it's my only gun) and have it for home protection, and can put a respectable group in a target at 50 yards even at age 71. I'm not attached to the holster, however, as to get to the range I have to carry everything separate and in the trunk. I'm not offering the holster for sale, just trying to determine what I have. Thanks for any help I get.

[Grumpa72]

I did a quick Google search using "vintage military holsters" as the subject and came up with several photo examples. Here is one:

http://military-holsters.com/holster-store/military-collectible

And another:

http://www.chronocentric.com/forums/chronotrader/index.cgi?noframes;read=7030

Another source might be to look up the manufacturers who reproduce these holsters. I have no source for these, have only seen one or two on display at Cabela's, but I think it would be fun to carry your Colt to the range in one.
As a side note, the old holsters that I saw at Cabela's were very much worse for the wear and I doubt that the leather was supple enough to use.

Gary

[maithunin]

Thanks Gary - it is the third picture on your first link - a 1912 leather US right-handed holster. Wish I had been smart enough to include the word "vintage" in my own search. Many thanks.

Bob

[Scott Gahimer]

If you'll provide more info on the holster you have with your pistol, we'll be able to help you determine if your holster is an original holster, or a reproduction as the one you identified as being like yours in the provided link.

The early M1912 holsters that were issued by the military will typically have markings on the rear of them. Some holsters of the same style were privately purchased commercially by those serving, and usually will not be marked on the rear. On those manufactured and issued by the military, they are normally date stamped with a year, too.

I'm interested in hearing more details about your pistol, too. Colt M1911 s/n 178974 was 1 of 900 pistols shipped from Colt's to Springfield Armory on September 13, 1917.

At the time your pistol was being manufactured, Colt's was transitioning from using roll stamps that had serif-style letters and numbers to a non-serif block style font. Normally we expect the style of roll die on the frames and slides to be the same, however, that may not be the case on some pistols in your serial range.

Can you provide some more information on your holster and pistol? Ideally, digital photos would tell me the things I'm curious about. If you could have someone help you provide photos, it would be very useful and helpful to those of us who do collect. We often hear stories of pistols and gear from those who do not collect, and when we do finally get a chance to see what they have, sometimes new information is obtained by us, or provided to the owner.

There are a number of things I'd like to know. However, without photos, it will require a lot of corresponding back and forth. It sounds like you've still got pretty good eyesight, based on your ability to group at 50 yds with the pistol.

If you will privately e-mail or private message me through the site and provide contact info, I'd be glad to contact you and walk you through an inspection of your pistol which will provde a lot of information. With a good flashlight, magnifying glass or jeweler's loupe and about 10-15 minute of your time, we'll both know more about your pistol and holster.

[maithunin]

Scott - thanks for the reply. Yes, I am lucky at my age regarding eyesight (at least in my dominant eye - 20/15 uncorrected) and my gun hand - steady as a rock - no tremor. Evidently good genetics for shooting.

I took a look at the holster using magnifying glass and oblique lighting. The grain of the leather makes the printing somewhat hard to read in places, and there appears to be some overstamping, but the following is what I can make out on the back:

ROCK?????? (the last part appears to have been overstamped somehow)
ARSENAL
1915
100 (or maybe T00 or T.00. - difficult to read - too much leather grain)

As for the pringing on the pistol, it is all san-serif (block), both on the slide and frame.

The package that I bought from my professor appears to be the complete package that was issued to his father (who was in the horse band in the east coast) - it contained the pistol, holster, a web belt to which the holster attaches, and a web pouch which held 2 spare ammo clips. The pouch has "U.S" printed on the front and on the back is: 19?2
?????????? (very faded)
The metal receiver on the back of the pouch which holds the pouch flap (sorry if I don't know the proper lingo) is labeled Rau Fastener Co. Prov. R.I.

Hope this info is of some help. Still working on the camera angle.

Bob

[Scott Gahimer]

Bob:

Your holster is marked

Rock Island Arsenal
1915
T.C.C.

The T.C.C. marking is an inspector's marking, presumably for Thomas C. Carroll, who was an employee at the RIA Harness Shop.

If your magazine pouch was issued with the pistol prior to 1922, the the marking you can't read is most likely 1912. Rau Fastener Co. was founded in 1912. The early mag pouches made by Rau and other manufacturers are considered rare and are relatively valuable, as far as magazine pouches go.

Your holster, if in nice condition, still having it's leg strap, is also a relatively rare and valuable holster.

On collectibles, originality and condition determine monetary value. I know you don't consider yourself a collector, and I accept the fact that everyone who possesses a collectible isn't necessarily interested in it's value. I would, however, still discourage you from ignoring the historical significance of the pieces you have.

I hope you are able to have the pistol and gear photographed and posted for us. When items surface "out of the woodwork", they're a lot more interesting to most collectors. It's fun to hear the stories of how the pieces were acquired when everything fits into place. Most of the stories we hear from dealers are just sales hype.