1918 M1911 questions

[Bob K]

Were all of the M1911's that were re-issued in WWII rebuilt and parked or were some issued with the original finish?
Were paratroopers of the 82nd Airborne issued 1911's?

[Scott Gahimer]

No. Yes, and probably.

There were still many original M1911 pistols used in WWII, and even beyond WWII. M1911, M1911A1? There was no difference, as far as the military was concerned when assigning pistols.

There were pistols issued to the 101st. However, I don't recall any pistols specifically listed by serial number as being assigned to the 101st, when searching the Springfield Research Service database.

Why do you ask? Do you think you've got a pistol from the 101st?

[Bob K]

Scott,
I am going to look at one tomorrow that may have belonged to an 82nd Airborne vet.
I believe it is in the 290k serial range and has very little if any finish left. I should have more details tomorrow afternoon.
Any idea what it may be worth?

[Scott Gahimer]

I'm sorry, Bob. I read your post, then went and did something else. In the meantime, I thought you said 101st Airborne. Duh...

I just checked for hits on pistols to the 82nd Airborne and found (3)...a mid-1944 Colt, a late-1944 Remington Rand and an early-1945 Remington Rand. However, they all had dates on the records from 1947 and 1948. The pistols may have been used during WWII by the 82nd, but I doubt the cited records would indicate anything about wartime use.

Please keep us posted after you go check it out. Thanks.

[Johnny Peppers]

I bought some pistols from an 11th Airborne veteran, but he had bought them after his military career.

[Bob K]

I didn't have the chance to check out the gun yet. I had to work. Hopefully this weekend I'll get there.

[Bob K]

Seems I got my facts mixed up. The M1911 that I mentioned did not belong to an 82nd Airborne vet. It was actually a purple heart w/3 oak leaf clusters and bronze star(another acquisition that was in the works at the time). I purchased the M1911 this weekend from an 83 year old gentleman in Danville, Ill.
He told me that the gun was given to his father by his fathers best friend when they lived in Missouri. All he remembers was that his father said that the vets name was Barrick Mattingly and that he became a lawyer in Missouri and was into politics heavily. This gentleman assumed that the vet was an Army officer since only officers were issued .45's
Well, when I got home, I started to do some research and it turns out that there wasn't an officer named Barrick Mattingly in the Army in WWI, but there was a Barak Mattingly who was a private in the Marines and has a very interesting history,part of which ties him to a Medal of Honor winner. Do a google search and you will find a ton of info. Here is a link which ties him to the MOH winner (Fred Stockham).
http://www.msc.navy.mil/N00p/pressrel/press01/press29.htm
I know I may be dreaming here, but what are the chances that this .45 may have belonged to Gunnery Sergeant Fred. W. Stockham? Are there any records that would tell who this gun was issued to?
Here is a preliminary pic. I sent the gun to be cleaned up a bit and should have it back by the weekend. I'll try to get better pics then.
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x26/IrwinPedersen/2604280_2KG195IZ5.jpg

[Bob K]

Can anyone give me a month of manufacture for this piece? The serial # is 297,4**.

[Little Sarge]

I think the date of manufacture of your pistol is late 1917.

[bgiven]

297,4xx is well into 1918. I'm out of town on biz with no books, but the first serial numbers Colt used in 1918 were around 217,xxx.

[Johnny Peppers]

Can anyone give me a month of manufacture for this piece? The serial # is 297,4**.

May 1918. xxx

(x's added to satisfy minimum forum message size)

[Little Sarge]

Serial Number Data

[Little Sarge]

Sorry about that link didn;t work www.proofhouse.com

[Bob K]

Sorry about that link didn;t work www.proofhouse.com


On the page that you linked to, what does "~ Not in serial order " mean?

[Bob K]

May 1918. xxx

(x's added to satisfy minimum forum message size)


Johnny, If you are correct, then that rules out the possibility of the gun having been used by Stockham since he died on June 22,1918.
Oh well, the history of Mattingly is impressive in itself.

[Johnny Peppers]

Johnny, If you are correct, then that rules out the possibility of the gun having been used by Stockham since he died on June 22,1918.
Oh well, the history of Mattingly is impressive in itself.

It's not my information, but I feel certain it is correct. The information came from Clawson's book, and he got it from the Colt archives.
After serial number 289300 the Colt 1911 pistols were no longer manufactured or shipped in numerical order. Your pistol was shipped either May 13 or 16, 1918.

[Bob K]

Johnny, Do you have info as to where it was shipped?

[texagun]

Johnny, Do you have info as to where it was shipped?

It was shipped to the Springfield Armory on May 13, 1918.

[Johnny Peppers]

Both dates of shipment went to Springfield Armory.

[Bob K]

Any info beyond that or is that where the trail ends?

[Johnny Peppers]

Any info beyond that or is that where the trail ends?

The shipping information came from Colt's archives. Springfield Armory records of where their shipments went once the pistols reached there are non-existant. Occasionally a record will be found in the National Archives detailing shipment or other notation of a pistols whereabouts at some point in time, and many of these have been recorded by Springfield Research Service (which has nothing to do with Springfield Armory). Sadly the information from SRS was removed from the internet, and a letter to them inquiring as to whether they have information on your serial number is required. I believe you have to subscribe to their quarterly magazine to be eligible to receive (for a fee) the information if any exists.

[Bob K]

Thanks, I'll have to check out the Springfield Research Service.

[Bob K]

I got the gun back and took some pics, but they didn't turn out the greatest with artificial lighting.
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x26/IrwinPedersen/misc011.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x26/IrwinPedersen/misc010mod.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x26/IrwinPedersen/misc029.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x26/IrwinPedersen/misc031mod.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x26/IrwinPedersen/misc013mod.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x26/IrwinPedersen/misc017mod.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x26/IrwinPedersen/misc023mod.jpg

[Bob K]

More
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x26/IrwinPedersen/misc027.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x26/IrwinPedersen/misc026.jpghttp://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x26/IrwinPedersen/misc033.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x26/IrwinPedersen/misc034.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x26/IrwinPedersen/misc025.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x26/IrwinPedersen/misc016.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x26/IrwinPedersen/misc015.jpg

[Bob K]

Additional pics taken with my new camera can be found here.
Colt M1911 (http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x26/IrwinPedersen/Winchester%20M1200%20trench/1917%20DWM%20Luger/M1911%20Colt%20auto/)

[Duane Hansen]

May 13, or May 16, 1918 shipped to Springfield Armory

[Bob K]

New link for the additional pics:

http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x26/IrwinPedersen/Barak%20Mattinglys%201911/

[Duane Hansen]

Bob K, I think that some "Picard Antique Leather dressing" would do wonders for the holster.

[Bob K]

Thanks Duane. I'll have to pick up some and give it a try. A buddy of mine put a couple of coats of something or other, but it just soaked it up like a sponge.