FTE Loaded Ammo. Help Troubleshoot

[crideout]

My 1911 seems to have a bit of trouble ejecting unfired rounds. I have tried it with Federal and Winchester Ball ammo, as well as Hornady XTP's. All seem to be having the same problem when I try to manually unload them.

As they are being ejected the nose of he bullet hangs on the inside edge of the front of the ejection port. My first thought was bad extractor. But using the information found on this website I checked the extractor and all seemed well. My next thought was ejector but that actually seems to be fine.

Here is a pic.

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo177/UrsusFamiliaris/IMG_1335.jpg

As can be seen in the picture there is a bit of a ridge on the front of the ejection port. Not sure if I should remove the ridge. I sure wouldn't want to ruin the gun by screwing up the barrel to slide finish.

What do you guys think I should do?

[Rich-D]

If the gun ejects fired cases, than it may be the manner in which you are pulling back and releasing the slide. As many folks who read these threads are not totally familiar with semi-autos I emphasis safety precautions.

When a round is in the chamber, insert an empty mag. Holding the gun upright, ( finger outside of the trigger housing of course and gun pointed in a safe direction) pull back the slide with some force, the round should eject and the slide should lock back.

With a charged mag, ( remember the finger) pull the slide back with some vigor and don't release it until the round ejects. When releasing the slide do not hold onto it, let it slam home in order to properly seat the round.


Best of Luck!
Rich

[crideout]

If the gun ejects fired cases, than it may be the manner in which you are pulling back and releasing the slide. As many folks who read these threads are not totally familiar with semi-autos I emphasis safety precautions.

When a round is in the chamber, insert an empty mag. Holding the gun upright, ( finger outside of the trigger housing of course and gun pointed in a safe direction) pull back the slide with some force, the round should eject and the slide should lock back.

With a charged mag, ( remember the finger) pull the slide back with some vigor and don't release it until the round ejects. When releasing the slide do not hold onto it, let it slam home in order to properly seat the round.


Best of Luck!
Rich

From what you are saying my technique is right. I am operating the slide with much force while keeping all appendages clear of the ejection port. I'm just getting stopped about 3/4 of the way back when the bullet hangs itself up against the front bridge of the ejector port.

[Rich-D]

I wish that I could be more helpful! However, your problem has me stumped.
Hopefully, one of our members with more mechanical experience will have an answer for you!

Best of Luck!
Rich

[crideout]

I saw this picture on the m1911.org Egazine's Review of the Colt Combat elite.

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo177/UrsusFamiliaris/Forewordcutport.jpg

In the picture you can clearly see just a little bit of the first locking at the front of the ejector port. It seems that it is exposed by a slight relief cut. This cut can also be seen on the E-gazine's rview of the Cylinder and Slide R&D gun.

My pistol doesnt have that little relief cut, as it seems most dont, and is cut straight from the top of front of the port to the bottom.

I'm wondering whether this might be a viable remedy to facilitate ejecting loaded rounds or if it is merely a coverup for poor tuning.

Would I be better off to look to other possible tuning issues?

[Tom]

Crideout, how is the tension on your extractor? Go to our Home Page, and under the Technical section, see our documentation on how to check and adjust the extractor.

[niemi24s]

Does this gun have a standard (shorter) ejector or does it have an extended (longer) ejector?

[Frank]

Does your gun have an extended ejector? Sometimes this can be related to an ejector with too long a nose.

DVC

[lil gator]

[QUOTE=crideout]My 1911 seems to have a bit of trouble ejecting unfired rounds.

I hope some of the mentors agree somewhat, Id worry more if it was not ejecting spent rounds. the only thing yours would be a draw back to is if you have a lot of ftf, and have to clear the breech. if thats the case then Id do more inspecting...

[crideout]

Does your gun have an extended ejector? Sometimes this can be related to an ejector with too long a nose.

DVC

Neimi and Frank, you guys may have something. My pistol has the extended ejector. What should I do? Should I experiment with it and try to file it back a bit to see if it has an effect? The part is MIM anyway and I am probably going to replace it with a wilson unit someday anyway so it really doesn't bother me if I wind up messing it up. What other information do I need to know about ejector tuning?

Tom, I checked the extractor tension using information in the Technical section. It doesn't seem to have a problem. With the slide and barrel assemblies removed I can slip a round underneath the extractor and shake it a bit and it doesn't fall out. I also don't seem to have any trouble sliding the round out from underneath the extractor. Is there anything else I need to look for when checking the extractor?

[crideout]

Neimi and Frank, you guys may have something. My pistol has the extended ejector. What should I do? Should I experiment with it and try to file it back a bit to see if it has an effect? The part is MIM anyway and I am probably going to replace it with a wilson unit someday anyway so it really doesn't bother me if I wind up messing it up. What other information do I need to know about ejector tuning?

Tom, I checked the extractor tension using information in the Technical section. It doesn't seem to have a problem. With the slide and barrel assemblies removed I can slip a round underneath the extractor and shake it a bit and it doesn't fall out. I also don't seem to have any trouble sliding the round out from underneath the extractor. Is there anything else I need to look for when checking the extractor?

Just had another thought while trying to anticipate what you guys thought the problem might be. Maybe it will be helpful in making a diagnosis. In cases where the ejector is too long does it usually cause a jam by making the cartridge hit against the barrel hood or against the slide? On mine the cartridges don't seem to be contacting the barrel hood on the way out, just the slide. Hope that helps

[Frank]

... Id worry more if it was not ejecting spent rounds....
Of course the most important thing is ejecting spent rounds, but there are time when one must eject a live round. For example, if one is participating in IDPA or USPSA competition, he must clear his gun at the end of running the particular course of fire. Also, at a range one must clear his gun when a cease fire is called. My guns eject both live and spent rounds.

...My pistol has the extended ejector. What should I do?...
I'd try filing it back. Take off just a little at a time. If you have some dummy rounds, I'd use those for testing. I personally hate to do function testing with live rounds. That's a accident waiting to happen.

Let's see if Neimi agrees. He's more expert than I.

DVC

[niemi24s]

What does the bullet nose make first contact with when hand ejecting: the barrel hood or the slide ejection port edge?

This asked because if it hits the hood first, filing back the ejector will delay ejection and allow the bullet nose to get farther away from the hood - the hood's not moving back anymore.

But, if first contact is made with port edge filing back the ejector will not help. It'll still delay ejection, but the port comes back along with cartidge - unlike the hood.

And if first contact is made with the port edge, the only way I can see to keep this from happening is find an extractor that holds the cartridge closer to the breechface.

How much of a gap is there between the extractor claw and the breech face when the extractor is pushed fully foward in the slide?

[niemi24s]

Rather than trying to do the extractor claw to breechface measurement, do this: remove the slide & barrel then connect the barrel to the frame via the linik & slide stop pin. Hold the barrel down and aft in the frame and see if a cartridge can possibly make contact with both the ejector nose and the barrel hood.

Just tried that on a gun with an extended ejector and with the case head in about its normal position on the ejector nose, the bullet nose-hood gap was about 1/8". So, unless your extended ejector is about 1/8" longer than mine, the hood cannot get hit at all.

I think, then, this must mean the port edge is getting contacted and stopping the ejection process.

Put the gun back together, but without the recoil spring. Then, remove the MSH & hammer to make it safe. Slowly extract an ununfired round from the chamber and carefully observe the direction the bullet nose moves when ejector contact is first made.

If the bullet nose moves laterally without any upward movement its likely it's hitting the lower, inside part of the ejection port enough to halt the ejection process. If so, I'm guessing the nose of your ejector is either angled vertically at 90° or angled so its forward-most point is at the top.

To get the bullet nose to rotate up while rotating to the right when the ejector contacts the case head, file the ejector nose so its forward-most point is at the bottom, sort of like " /_". This is how I do my ejectors, and it insures the case head gets contacted as low down as possible and gets the empty case or cartridge rotating both up and to the right.

So, after that long-winded spiel: Is your ejector nose shaped like either of these?

• "|_"
• "\_"

[crideout]

What does the bullet nose make first contact with when hand ejecting: the barrel hood or the slide ejection port edge?

This asked because if it hits the hood first, filing back the ejector will delay ejection and allow the bullet nose to get farther away from the hood - the hood's not moving back anymore.

But, if first contact is made with port edge filing back the ejector will not help. It'll still delay ejection, but the port comes back along with cartidge - unlike the hood.

And if first contact is made with the port edge, the only way I can see to keep this from happening is find an extractor that holds the cartridge closer to the breechface.

How much of a gap is there between the extractor claw and the breech face when the extractor is pushed fully foward in the slide?

Neimi thanks for all the information. You were right the cartridge is contacting the ejector rather than the barrel hood. The contact point ia in the upper right corner and to the front on the ejection port. Fired Brass ejects from the port at a 45 degree angle.

Also when I look at the ejector, its nose the highest point it looks like this { \__ } when looking at it from the left side of the frame. Are you saying it might help to file it to look like { |_ } or { /_ } in this case? It makes sense I guess since since changing the contact point like that would move the pivot point back on the cartridge, and the farther back the pivot point the shorter the ark the nose has to travel would be, thus possible moving it back from the mouth of the ejector port.

You hit the nail right on the head earlier when you explained why I need to be able to eject loaded rounds. I do shoot IDPA from time to time and reliability in this function is necessary for safety and so that I don't look stupid having to take my gun apart every time I finish a stage. :D

[niemi24s]

Also when I look at the ejector, its nose the highest point it looks like this { \__ } when looking at it from the left side of the frame.That's what I thought it would look like. That nose shape means the ejector contacts the case head as far up as it possibly can. And if the magazine has been removed or is empty, the case head is at the level of the linked down barrel. Both make for the bullet moving to the right with little or no upward motion, and that upward motion is what gets the bullet out of the ejection port without getting hung up.Are you saying it might help to file it to look like { |_ } or { /_ } in this case?Yes, as seen from the left. The angled one is not as severe as shown. Mine's only about 6°, just enough to keep the bottom corner in contact with the case head as it rotates back to contact the the breechface.

Try the 90° one first just for grins and see how that works. If it doesnt help, keep filing the top back (leaving the corner at the very bottom alone) until you get to about 6°. You can always take a little more off, but it's kinda hard to put back on. And there's no reason to angle it back any more than about 6°.

You will probably also notice a change in the ejection pattern of fired cases. If your case mouths were getting dented by contact with the lower edge of the ejection port, those dents should become smaller or maybe even disappear. This because the fired case will also rotate up and to the right on its way out of the port.You hit the nail right on the head earlier when you explained why I need to be able to eject loaded rounds. I do shoot IDPA.... Not me. I think it was Frank.

Regards

[crideout]

That's what I thought it would look like. That nose shape means the ejector contacts the case head as far up as it possibly can. And if the magazine has been removed or is empty, the case head is at the level of the linked down barrel. Both make for the bullet moving to the right with little or no upward motion, and that upward motion is what gets the bullet out of the ejection port without getting hung up.Yes, as seen from the left. The angled one is not as severe as shown. Mine's only about 6°, just enough to keep the bottom corner in contact with the case head as it rotates back to contact the the breechface.

Regards

Thanks Niemi and Frank, I'll go work on it when I get home from work this evening and will let you know the results.

The explanation you gave also makes sense to resolve why I am having no trouble ejecting cartridges when there is no magazine in the well. With the magazine inserted the cartridge has no place to go because it is being pushed up by the rounds below it while being pushed foreword by the high nose on the ejector. With no magazine in, the pressure from the cartridges in the magazine below is not present, allowing the cartridge to slip down under the extractor when it contacts the breech face, thus allowing it to clear the breach face after the shift. Hopefully if I change the contact point of the extractor this will give the cartridge less of a push foreword and to the right but more up, foreword, and to the right.

LOL, I know the action I want to describe but its so hard to draw a picture with words. Kinda like dancing about architecture. :D

[niemi24s]

With no magazine in, the pressure from the cartridges in the magazine below is not present, allowing the cartridge to slip down under the extractor. . .This will only happen if extractor tension is insufficient to retain control of the case or cartridge.

When the barrel gets linked down, the cartridge/case is low on the breechface to begin with but the extractor claw is still pulling on the rim. If there's no magazine or the magazine is empty, they'll probably stay at that level until ejector contact.

If, on the other hand, there's a magazine with another cartridge in it, the case being extracted may get poked up under the arch in the left hand breech face guide block (when the slide clears the top round in the magazine and it jpops up under the feed lips) and thus gets hit lower down by the ejector.

Here's kind of what it looks like: http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p232/niemi24s/P082280002c.jpg and is why ejection of the last case is radically different on some guns - I think.

Regards