Big Box Gunsmithing 101 !!!!!!

[bucksarge]

Hello All,

Received a Gander Mountain gift card for Christmas from a generous relative who shares my passion for firearms and the 2nd Amendment. Today, while out and about, stopped in to the local Gander Mountain to check out the ammo. After seeing a 250 round "Mega" box of Remington UMC .45 ACP with a price of $139.99 I almost blew my lunch. That's $27.99 per 50 rnd box!!

Determining I wouldn't be "assimilated", I put the gift card away for another day and ambled over to the gunsmithing area. Talking to the "pro", I explained my desire to have a hands on lesson on how to tune a 1911's extractor so I'd have the necessary skills when and if I needed it. (I'm a hands on guy, and notwithstanding the enormous amount of solid info on this forum, I felt I needed a "monkey see, monkey do" type of instruction the first time out).

His reply was basically he didn't understand what I was wanting. To him I said: Okay, let's say I have an extractor that wasn't, or I installed a new extractor and it didn't work properly, I need hands on instructions on how to adjust the tension to get it to work properly because pictures and words don't always cut it for me. His reply: "If I have an existing extractor or a new one that doesn't work, I take it out and start cutting until it does work". :lm:

I thanked him for his knowledge and left.

No response or help is needed here.......just wanted to relay my BIG BOX story.

Oh, has anyone seen how poorly Gander Mountain is doing lately?

Thanks for letting me vent.

Regards,

Buck

Proud owner of:

Nighthawk Custom T3
Kimber SIS Pro
Glock 17, 19, and 23

[ga16de6669]

Reminds me of my local toy store. I walked in with a model number, description, and intent to purchase. I was nearly turned away by a clerk who knew sort of what a gun is, and Glocks were on sale, and whats the difference just buy the 1911 we have in stock. Ended up talking with the owner, who i am on a first name basis. He apologized and replied while its hard to find good help, he turned down my offer to work for ammo and range time. Reminded me of going to get tires at a large store that owns a large building in Ron Whites joke :p

[nitetrane98]

Well, while this guy will likely never be accused of having a way with words,(some gunsmiths are notorious for that) he did, in fact, describe tuning an extractor. Other than tension adjustment, about all that's left is playing with the contours. There is a prescribed method for massaging the angles on the extractor.
Maybe if he had said, "Based on my education and experience I tediously alter the geometric interplay between the extractor and the shell casing with a tool of appropriately harder metalurgical composition until the desired result is obtained."

[Hawkmoon]

... he did, in fact, describe tuning an extractor.
No, he did not.

He didn't say anything about how to check for proper tension, and he didn't say anything about how to set/reset the tension if it's wrong. Carving away at the extractor is the LAST thing you do, only if retensioning doesn't achieve satisfactory results.

What he described, to me, sounds like "How to ruin a 1911 101."

[bucksarge]

Well, while this guy will likely never be accused of having a way with words,(some gunsmiths are notorious for that) he did, in fact, describe tuning an extractor. Other than tension adjustment, about all that's left is playing with the contours. There is a prescribed method for massaging the angles on the extractor.
Maybe if he had said, "Based on my education and experience I tediously alter the geometric interplay between the extractor and the shell casing with a tool of appropriately harder metalurgical composition until the desired result is obtained."

:nono:

HMMMM, Don't know what you're suggesting, but if you read my original post, I asked him specifically if he would show me how to adjust the TENSION....not to spew impressive, meaningless words to me.

Have a wonderful life.

Regards,

Buck

[nitetrane98]

I can't see this ending well. Forgive me.

[Hawkmoon]

HMMMM, Don't know what you're suggesting, but if you read my original post, I asked him specifically if he would show me how to adjust the TENSION....not to spew impressive, meaningless words to me.
If that's what you specifically asked him, that's not what you wrote.

I explained my desire to have a hands on lesson on how to tune a 1911's extractor
Tuning the extractor includes tension, but that's not all there is to it.

Before we accuse others of not reading what we wrote, it's a good idea to verify that what we wrote is what we actually wanted to say.

[nitetrane98]

No, he did not.

He didn't say anything about how to check for proper tension, and he didn't say anything about how to set/reset the tension if it's wrong. Carving away at the extractor is the LAST thing you do, only if retensioning doesn't achieve satisfactory results.

What he described, to me, sounds like "How to ruin a 1911 101."

OK, I should have said, "part of tuning an extractor". I thought it was implied that "other than tension adjustment, all that's left..." would indicate that the tensioning would be performed first.

[bucksarge]

[QUOTE=bucksarge]
His reply was basically he didn't understand what I was wanting.

To him I said: Okay, let's say I have an extractor that wasn't, or I installed a new extractor and it didn't work properly, I need hands on instructions on how to adjust the tension to get it to work properly because pictures and words don't always cut it for me.

His reply: "If I have an existing extractor or a new one that doesn't work, I take it out and start cutting until it does work".


Hawkmoon and nitetrane98,

Thanks for your comments and input. However, based on the above quote from my original post, I feel I did specifically ask how to adjust the tension.

No big deal........This is a great forum and I've learned a great deal during the time I've been perusing it (as a member and before). Also, there are a great deal of people here who bend over backwards to help.....both of you included.

Excuse me while I go back into the lurking mode.

Regards

[hiloboy32531]

maybe the guy just did not want to give free advice? why should he? maybe he is still paying for his education (gunsmith schools are not cheap). just a thought.

[cedjunior]

You think thats bad. I was at the Bass Pro Shop in Grapevine TX yesterday, they were selling 50rd boxes of Remington 45 ACP for $39.99.

[Ralph Grant]

When preparing for my first 1911 rebuild I purchased the 4 Wilson Combat video's on 1911 tuning. I think it was the first video where the smith takes you through what to look for in tuning an extractor. It was very straight forward and relatively simple. Another awesome resource is searching this forum!

As far as the gunsmith at Gander.....

Just because the dude is a gunsmith, doesn't mean he knows what he's doing with a 1911. He might be one of those gun cleaning, boresighting, scope installing guys that ship sick firearms back to the factory for service! I would also argue that many of the people in the firearms industry have a challenge with personal skills. Thus, as a result, many of those anti-marksmen out there unfortunately label we marksmen as gun toting deralicts. A very undeserved prejudice IMHO. A guy may be weird but that doesn't make him stupid. I'm an engineer, I know what I'm talking about here! :)

Incidentally, I have a gunsmith buddy who works magic with restoring vintage SXS shotguns and is also an artist in the tool room. Its not that he can't, he just doesn't do pistols.

[NordicRX8]

Bucksarge,

Unlike Home Depot and Lowes, I don't think the BIG BOX 'sporting goods' chains have free seminars. :D

Maybe if you specifically asked him if they offered gunsmithing classes, he may have been more helpful or ask you what in particular you're looking for.

Either way, as someone else mentioned, he may have just been a parts installer.

I can understand your situation. I too am a hands on type of student. I'd rather learn by doing than observing... unfortunately, if you need a hands on type environment, you're going to have to PAY for that expertise. In the end, the old saying goes, you get what you paid for... and since you didn't pay that Gander Mountain smith anything, you got what you "paid for". Maybe if you had bought that Mega-Box of ammo, he would've been more receptive to your question after seeing that you bought something that contributed to his wages. ;)

While it may not be "hands on", brownells has a section on their website with gunsmithing articles free for the viewing (words, pics and videos), many for the 1911.

Good Luck

[Joni Lynn]

A gentleman I met one day at the local range had a less than desirable experience with the 'smith at Gander. They snapped off a screw on a scope base and then proceeded to drill it out and drilled a hole in the locking lug of the rifles bolt.
I've tried to ask questions of the guy myself and found out they know next to nothing. (at least at the local gander)

[NordicRX8]

They snapped off a screw on a scope base and then proceeded to drill it out and drilled a hole in the locking lug of the rifles bolt. I've tried to ask questions of the guy myself and found out they know next to nothing. (at least at the local gander)

Wow... I hope that guy got a replacement rifle. I would have pitched a fit.

Any person with SKILLS (I think) would have their own business instead of working for a store (which don't pay you what you're worth). A good smith would make more on his own than working for a store. Same with the computer repair depts at the big box electronic stores. I've had some confrontations with several real geniuses at CompUSA and Circuit City's computer repair personnel.

[Joni Lynn]

Yes and no. They refunded his money and refused to give the gun back to him. After a few months of talking with his friend the manager they sold him back the gun 'as is' for $150. It was a Remington 700 BDL in 300 Ultra Mag.

[TJH3781]

Gander's main gunsmithing operation is at their Kenosha WI store. I have had several weapons worked on by them & they did excellent work. One mistake, they compressed a Colt slide when installing Novak sights. They fixed the problem immediately. The Kenosha location has all the machine tools a gunsmith needs & most individuals would be hard pressed to buy all of them & start their own business. My experience is that they are good general gunsmiths; not custom builders.

I may have missed something with the Remington bolt problem. If it was my rifle and they refused to return it to me, not withstanding the damage done & the safety issue; the manager would have left the store in cuffs with felony charges pending!

[Joni Lynn]

I'll clarify a bit so there's no misunderstanding.
The gentleman had just purchased the gun from gander, along with scope/bases/rings.
When the gandersmithy was installing the front base he snapped off a screw and then drilled it out. He didn't remove the bolt first and drilled down into the recoil lug. At this point they refunded his money and he went home somewhat angry.
Over a period of time he worked on the manager until they sold him the gun for $150.
I just can't believe they let a dunce like that work on guns with power equipment no less. He'd be better off working for The Dress Barn.

[TJH3781]

Thanks for the clarification. I imagine the Dress Barn might have a problem with all the hems sewn together.